Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[tiger_rat]

02:06 AEDT Fri Feb 17 2012

Another reason to BOOT the GILLARD Goverment OUT !!
Asylum seekers receive $10k gift packs
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"Basic provisions" worth thousands of dollars, including DVDs and plasma TVs, are being included in welcome packs provided to asylum seekers being housed in rent-free homes while their claims are processed.

The instant home package includes around 60 items, including beds, baby items for families with small children, fridges and food storage containers, as well as a minimum size 53cm television.

Food hampers are also provided as families are moved out of detention into rent-free accommodation in the community, News Ltd newspapers said.
Turn the BOATS around.!!!

The federal opposition revealed Senate estimates this week showed families of more than nine could receive up to $9850 in furnishings, while an average family of five was eligible for $7100 worth of goods, News Ltd said.

Among other items provided under special consideration were baby items, computers, internet access and mobile phones, children's toys, including games consoles and sewing machines.

Asylum seekers also were provided with free medical and pharmaceutical costs, education and fortnightly payments of up to $433.25 to help those unable to work.

Almost 1600 asylum seekers are housed in community detention across the country.

They are asylum seekers, they have probably fled their previous country due to persecution and have nothing. They not immigrants who have arrived here with some wealth.

See this quote from Bowen:

"We have a duty of care to provide essential items such as cleaning supplies, furniture and bedding, and baby items such as prams, for vulnerable asylum seekers in community detention," a spokesman said.

"**People do not keep the goods**, they remain in a house when a family moves out and are used by the next people who move in. These people are not allowed to work."

$10,000 for a family (or more) is bugger all cost compared to keeping these people in detention. The sooner they get into society and start contributing the better.

 

[hammertime]

Come on guys… we are installing slightly faster internet at highly stupid per capita costs. We can't go prioritising food and shelter for all Australians! What kind of house would it be anyway with only adsl2??

 

[stryker]

This is a massive problem:
"According to Homelessness Australia, Each day nearly 1 in every 200 Australians is homeless, without safe, secure or affordable housing. Last year, 105,000 Australians experienced homelessness. 23% of Australia’s homeless are children – almost one in four homeless people is under 18\. Of every 42 Australian children one under the age of four has experienced homelessness."

This is fair enough:
"People do not keep the goods, they remain in a house when a family moves out and are used by the next people who move in. These people are not allowed to work."

And this is just ridiculous:
"In fact in the last 18 months, the Government funded accommodation for over 400 asylum seekers at the Virginia Palms resort in Brisbane and Darwin’s Asti Hotel and other “alternative accommodation” at a cost of some $86 million to taxpayers."

I have no problem with helping those in need - as long as they come through the correct channels and dont try to decieve us…however point 3 is unbelievable! What a horrid waste of money. Help assylum seekers, but only after we have helped our own first. May sound harsh but it is the correct way to tackle things IMO.

 

[Yossarian]

tiger rat can you please provide some sources for your posts so everyone can make an accurate assessment on their value?

 

[Yossarian]

This is a massive problem:
"According to Homelessness Australia, Each day nearly 1 in every 200 Australians is homeless, without safe, secure or affordable housing. Last year, 105,000 Australians experienced homelessness. 23% of Australia’s homeless are children – almost one in four homeless people is under 18\. Of every 42 Australian children one under the age of four has experienced homelessness."

This is fair enough:
"People do not keep the goods, they remain in a house when a family moves out and are used by the next people who move in. These people are not allowed to work."

And this is just ridiculous:
"In fact in the last 18 months, the Government funded accommodation for over 400 asylum seekers at the Virginia Palms resort in Brisbane and Darwin’s Asti Hotel and other “alternative accommodation” at a cost of some $86 million to taxpayers."

I have no problem with helping those in need - as long as they come through the correct channels and dont try to decieve us…however point 3 is unbelievable! What a horrid waste of money. Help assylum seekers, but only after we have helped our own first. May sound harsh but it is the correct way to tackle things IMO.

They have to go somewhere. Building a new facility or reopening Nauru would cost a lot more than $86 million and with much poorer outcomes. I actually have a lot of sympathy to your point about applying through appropiate channels and not just showing up but once they arrive they have to be housed somewhere.

 

[Yossarian]

02:06 AEDT Fri Feb 17 2012

Another reason to BOOT the GILLARD Goverment OUT !!
Asylum seekers receive $10k gift packs
\
\
"Basic provisions" worth thousands of dollars, including DVDs and plasma TVs, are being included in welcome packs provided to asylum seekers being housed in rent-free homes while their claims are processed.

The instant home package includes around 60 items, including beds, baby items for families with small children, fridges and food storage containers, as well as a minimum size 53cm television.

Food hampers are also provided as families are moved out of detention into rent-free accommodation in the community, News Ltd newspapers said.

The federal opposition revealed Senate estimates this week showed families of more than nine could receive up to $9850 in furnishings, while an average family of five was eligible for $7100 worth of goods, News Ltd said.

Among other items provided under special consideration were baby items, computers, internet access and mobile phones, children's toys, including games consoles and sewing machines.

Asylum seekers also were provided with free medical and pharmaceutical costs, education and fortnightly payments of up to $433.25 to help those unable to work.

Almost 1600 asylum seekers are housed in community detention across the country.

They are asylum seekers, they have probably fled their previous country due to persecution and have nothing. They not immigrants who have arrived here with some wealth.

See this quote from Bowen:

"We have a duty of care to provide essential items such as cleaning supplies, furniture and bedding, and baby items such as prams, for vulnerable asylum seekers in community detention," a spokesman said.

"**People do not keep the goods**, they remain in a house when a family moves out and are used by the next people who move in. These people are not allowed to work."

$10,000 for a family (or more) is bugger all cost compared to keeping these people in detention. The sooner they get into society and start contributing the better.

Thanks for framing the original post in its correct context Gary. Most migrants are desperate to work and in the long run make a far greater contribution through taxation and the like than the original cost of their housing. Given the choice most of them would rather be out earning a quid than stuck in a house or facility.

I would suggest to everyone to treat ANY source quoting the cost of "handouts" to asylum seekers/migrants with a massive grain of salt. I've seen numerous figures or internet chain mails making claims that are either misleading or simply wrong (including ones originating in other countries).

 

[Flippedy]

I agree that the Church should stay out of politics and if the state wants to give gays the right to marry thats fine with Happy

But the Church still has the right to voice their opinion whether they agree or disagree Its not the Churches fault that the politicians choose to listen to the Church because they are worried they may lose a percentage of votes

And thats all the politicians (on both sides mind you) give a crap about The don't really care whether gays get a right to marry or not

But when the gay vote gets bigger than the religious vote watch out

**The one thing that has annoyed me about this part of the thread is that its been obvious that many of the pot shots have been aimed at the Catholic Church\
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Every Church has made mistakes in the past and willso in the future also The Catholic Church isn't the only religion that opposes gay marriages**

No singling out the Catholic Church from me, Happy. There are denominations and individual christians, who are far more prejudice against gay marriage and gays, in general, than the Cathos are. Aside from the Pope and the greater church hierarchy, most of the Catholics I know (priests and nuns included) are genuine and compassionate people, who wouldn't have a bad word to say about anyone.

 

[stryker]

Whats the bet this was released by Gillards office?

http://youtu.be/uOUFKZBpFTY

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Whats the bet this was released by Gillards office?

http://youtu.be/uOUFKZBpFTY

How stupid can you be sitting in front of a camera carrying on like that in a position he holds. Surely common sense would tell you the camera's would be rolling and with the way the internet is these days, the chances of this leaking are pretty high

 

[Flippedy]

Whats the bet this was released by Gillards office?

http://youtu.be/uOUFKZBpFTY

How stupid can you be sitting in front of a camera carrying on like that in a position he holds. Surely common sense would tell you the camera's would be rolling and with the way the internet is these days, the chances of this leaking are pretty high

I voted for Kevin Rudd in 07 simply because I was sick of the Liberals, and their paternalistic leader, and I wanted Labor back in. I thought Rudd would make a great leader, after many years of enduring average Labor leaders, who everyone knew just wouldn't make the grade to become PM. He started off well, but ended up railroaded by his own party because he lost the plot, politically, and because of all too frequent outbursts like this one taped above. For whatever reason, underneath his 'Milky Bar Kid' exterior, Kevin Rudd is a raging inferno waiting to erupt. People may not like what Labor has to offer now, but putting Rudd back in the leadership role would be a huge mistake, imo.

One would think that this situation with Labor bodes well for Tony Abbott and the Libs getting back in Govt, but seriously, Abbott would make an even worse PM than Rudd or Gillard. Like those Labor Opposition leaders during Howard's reign, you just know he wouldn't make the grade. If the Liberals were smart, they would be making a move towards getting a strong, charismatic Opposition leader installed, asap. Who that may be, though, is anyone's guess.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Didn't Rudd attack a flight attendant while he was PM?

 

[Spartan117]

certainly abused one verbally,

The only thing good about Rudd getting back in is that he may be held accountable for the incredibly bad job done whilst he was there last time.

Labor brand for me is synonymous with waste

 

[hammertime]

certainly abused one verbally,

The only thing good about Rudd getting back in is that he may be held accountable for the incredibly bad job done whilst he was there last time.

Labor brand for me is synonymous with waste

The Australian public do have a very short term memory. Rudd was the cause of most of the bad policy that Julia has had to deal with. BER, Batts etc.. Maybe Aussie's just remember him as the man that gave them those big cash handouts?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

certainly abused one verbally,

The only thing good about Rudd getting back in is that he may be held accountable for the incredibly bad job done whilst he was there last time.

Labor brand for me is synonymous with waste

The Australian public do have a very short term memory. Rudd was the cause of most of the bad policy that Julia has had to deal with. BER, Batts etc.. Maybe Aussie's just remember him as the man that gave them those big cash handouts?

Rudd was a visionary in ways… His ideas with the stimulus were good, but were hampered by the poor execution. He's appeared to me to balance conservatism and progression better than Julia, but then again, Rudd didn't have to get into bed with the Greens to hold government so his agenda was more achievable.

Gillard has her part to play in this also as Rudd's deputy PM at the time and her direct involvement with the BER as education minister. To absolve her of blame when Rudd was at the helm is foolhardy.

He's certainly a hot head, and he doesn't seem to shy away from the fact he is. I respect him for that, just like that despite the fact Abbott is a mental case who will do more harm than good than either Rudd or Gillard, I respect him because he says what he thinks (no matter what sort of drama it causes,) that's about as genuine as you can get, and you don't often get that from pollies.

 

[happy_tiger]

Whats the bet this was released by Gillards office?

http://youtu.be/uOUFKZBpFTY

How stupid can you be sitting in front of a camera carrying on like that in a position he holds. Surely common sense would tell you the camera's would be rolling and with the way the internet is these days, the chances of this leaking are pretty high

I voted for Kevin Rudd in 07 simply because I was sick of the Liberals, and their paternalistic leader, and I wanted Labor back in. I thought Rudd would make a great leader, after many years of enduring average Labor leaders, who everyone knew just wouldn't make the grade to become PM. He started off well, but ended up railroaded by his own party because he lost the plot, politically, and because of all too frequent outbursts like this one taped above. For whatever reason, underneath his 'Milky Bar Kid' exterior, Kevin Rudd is a raging inferno waiting to erupt. People may not like what Labor has to offer now, but putting Rudd back in the leadership role would be a huge mistake, imo.

One would think that this situation with Labor bodes well for Tony Abbott and the Libs getting back in Govt, but seriously, Abbott would make an even worse PM than Rudd or Gillard. Like those Labor Opposition leaders during Howard's reign, you just know he wouldn't make the grade. If the Liberals were smart, they would be making a move towards getting a strong, charismatic Opposition leader installed, asap. Who that may be, though, is anyone's guess.

The opposition does have a great leader and his name is Malcolm Turnbull Don't be surprised if Rudd gets back in that The Coalition flips Abbott for Turnbull in close succession

 

[happy_tiger]

Didn't Rudd attack a flight attendant while he was PM?

Only because Kevin was angry that the flight attendant took a picture of him and Julia joining the mile high club together 😱pen_mouth: :wink:

 

[Flippedy]

Didn't Rudd attack a flight attendant while he was PM?

Only because Kevin was angry that the flight attendant took a picture of him and Julia joining the mile high club together 😱pen_mouth: :wink:

Now there's a visual I could've done without! Thanks Happy, I will need therapy for the rest of my life now 😱pen_mouth:

On Turnbull, many on here seem to think he would make a great leader, but I'm not so sure. I admit I don't know a lot about him, but I do wonder just how much this man of privilege can really relate to day-to-day strugglers like me. Howard failed in this regard - I know everyone thought he was wonderful and 'the economy this and the economy that' blah, blah, but underneath all the 'look at how good our economy is' rhetoric, the gap between rich and poor, in this country, really widened big time, during his reign and, unless you actually lived on the lower end of the spectrum during this time, the widening gap was difficult to see - such was the cleverness of the Coalition back then. I have a feeling that Turnbull is of the same ilk as Howard, let's hope I'm wrong.

 

[Flippedy]

:arrow_right: :nerd: Kevin lol

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Didn't Rudd attack a flight attendant while he was PM?

Only because Kevin was angry that the flight attendant took a picture of him and Julia joining the mile high club together 😱pen_mouth: :wink:

Now there's a visual I could've done without! Thanks Happy, I will need therapy for the rest of my life now 😱pen_mouth:

On Turnbull, many on here seem to think he would make a great leader, but I'm not so sure. I admit I don't know a lot about him, but I do wonder just how much this man of privilege can really relate to day-to-day strugglers like me. Howard failed in this regard - I know everyone thought he was wonderful and 'the economy this and the economy that' blah, blah, but underneath all the 'look at how good our economy is' rhetoric, the gap between rich and poor, in this country, really widened big time, during his reign and, unless you actually lived on the lower end of the spectrum during this time, the widening gap was difficult to see - such was the cleverness of the Coalition back then. I have a feeling that Turnbull is of the same ilk as Howard, let's hope I'm wrong.

Turnbull knows how to make a few quid. Turned pig crap into jam with OzEmail.

 

[happy_tiger]

So are we expecting any fireworks next week with Pauline (Sorry Julia) and Kevin Rudd

I know Yoss disagrees but I think they need to sort this out before the Qld election or all hell will break loose