Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[earl]

You are actively advocating for people to lose everything because they were told they could not open their doors. That is insanity.

I am not. You are putting up a strawman and attacking that strawman which isn't what I'm stating.

This is what I'm stating. We've paid out so much money to get through this pandemic and we have extremely large levels of debt from a historical perspective. We now need to reign the debt in for the benefit of ourselves in the future.

 

[earl]

Whatever dude.

 

[earl]

The pandemic is NOT becoming a thing of the past,it is only May and already MORE people in Australia have died of covid in 2022 than in 2021 or 2020 it is just the media is no longer reporting it to the same degree.This year the deaths are approaching 5000 in Australia

Do we have lockdowns now that are stopping people from working ?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

It sounds great doesn't it. I don't think it typically works out like that though.

It doesn't because the system waits for those people to become jobless. Also in the traditional setting a pandemic forcing businesses to close en masse is not a factor.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I am not. You are putting up a strawman and attacking that strawman which isn't what I'm stating.

This is what I'm stating. We've paid out so much money to get through this pandemic and we have extremely large levels of debt from a historical perspective. We now need to reign the debt in for the benefit of ourselves in the future.

We had large levels of debt previously, the pandemic has added to it, but was necessary spending. I would have thought having more businesses trading and employing people means whatever assistance you're giving out to businesses to stay afloat can be earned back in taxes via company, payroll, income and duties.

Just cutting off the fund means people go jobless and the economy grinds to a halt because no one is working and no one has the money to spend because they are all on welfare.

I am leaving it here now. You're either trolling or you are just regurgitating talking points without having any ability to critically think.

 

[earl]

If anyone wants to understand what I'm stating rationally and factually I suggest watching this video.

It is factual and unbiased. It is not something supporting my view. It's just explaining facts.

 

[TillLindemann]

Guys,

Because of prior imbalances built in its not fixable.

1.2 trillion in debt with little to show is too much.

And as America increases sanctions on China in a vain attempt to save its ass we will wear it.

Further social dislocation ahead

I agree further social dislocation ahead.
I agree with Earl the current debt is unsustainable.
I agree with others that austerity isn't possible and it's not fair or reasonable to withdraw support.
I'm a disciple of the 'we're rooted' school of thought.
Natural disaster was Act 1
Covid was Act 2
War in Europe was Act 3
Act 4 is global food shock.

 

[Merlot]

They are unprofitable because they were not allowed to trade by government mandate! They're not unprofitable through trade.

What, you're saying every business in Australia should have anticipated two and a half years of disruptions and been able to bankroll that? Most major companies wouldn't be able to do that.

Letting businesses go to the wall because you have not allowed them to trade directly feeds into people losing their homes which may have been secured for business loans. Point one is a catalyst for point two.

You are actively advocating for people to lose everything because they were told they could not open their doors. That is insanity.

on your 2nd paragragh,every business and house hold should think that way.peace out

 

[tigerballs]

Well not entirely because someone his age probably didn’t get superannuation until relatively late on. I think you have to divorce his personal situation from the bigger issue of pensions. The unwritten social contract up until the 80s was probably you work and pay your taxes and get a decent pension. Being able to save a large amount of money to avoid relying on the pension was probably beyond almost all Australians of his vantage. But really we’re talking disposable income and whether pensioners can expect disposable income after they meet their expenses. If you suppose they do, how they spend it is up to them.

That's quite probably his situation. I would be right onside with him then if he asked "why can't I earn more money while I'm on my pension?" He'd be far better of both financially and probably health wise, as well as paying more tax.

 

[Merlot]

That's quite probably his situation. I would be right onside with him then if he asked "why can't I earn more money while I'm on my pension?" He'd be far better of both financially and probably health wise, as well as paying more tax.

are you a pen pusher in your job,under 35,or a financial adviser?

 

[tigerballs]

are you a pen pusher in your job,under 35,or a financial adviser?

No

 

[tigerballs]

I don't understand how you think we can spend our way out of debt.

 

[stryker 69]

The pandemic is NOT becoming a thing of the past,it is only May and already MORE people in Australia have died of covid in 2022 than in 2021 or 2020 it is just the media is no longer reporting it to the same degree.This year the deaths are approaching 5000 in Australia

That’s a good point.
The media used to go apeshit reporting cases and deaths. This year has been worse than the years they had near wall to wall coverage and there’s no mention of it.

 

[Nelson]

I don't understand how you think we can spend our way out of debt.

You use government spending to grow and inflate the economy as was done (or at least as occurred) in the post-WW2 period.

 

[earl]

This is a video just on the facts of our debt.

 

[earl]

You use government spending to grow and inflate the economy as was done (or at least as occurred) in the post-WW2 period.

You are hoping that the economy grows to be large enough to service the debt easily. That isn't very likely in our current scenario.

You can deflate your currency and if the debt is in your currency then you are in effect paying back less money. It comes with a cost of deflating your currency though.

At some point you have to pay the piper. It's not really avoidable. It's more a choice about what is least bad.

 

[Nelson]

You are hoping that the economy grows to be large enough to service the debt easily. That isn't very likely in our current scenario.

You can deflate your currency and if the debt is in your currency then you are in effect paying back less money. It comes with a cost of deflating your currency though.

At some point you have to pay the piper. It's not really avoidable. It's more a choice about what is least bad.

I was answering a question, not setting an economic strategy for the country. It was just an example of how spending money can get a country out of debt (or avoid future indebtedness). Another example would be the fiscal stimulus during the pandemic: debt was being accrued in order to stave off a severe downturn in the economy that would have tanked the revenue base into the future (not to mention led to a host of social problems). As I have said previously, it is all complicated and I don't pretend to an economics guru that has all the answers about what should or should not be done.

 

[tigerballs]

You use government spending to grow and inflate the economy as was done (or at least as occurred) in the post-WW2 period.

Yes, but that's a strategy with an expiry date attached to an ambitious, constructive vision. Our current debt has been accrued while simply treading water. These guys want to spend even more without any concept or creative ambition. I can't trust either side, they're too corrupt.
Take Westconnex for example. We're spending billions of dollars to funnel cars into the CBD, with nowhere to go once they get there, while destroying the amenity of inner city suburbs, disguising it as a project to keep large contracting firms employing hundreds of people but in fact simply making them millions in tax dollar profits. With half an ounce of vision, much less money could have provided decent broadband to enable people to work from home. Instead, employees are being encouraged to head back to the CBD because the cafes paying rent to well connected landlords are going broke. Never mind the suburban cafe owners that were prospering during covid restrictions or people not wasting half their day commuting. Who gives a shit about them.
Zero vision. From either side.