Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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The only logic I can see in this change is that Labor thought they could not win the fight against the mining companies, but Rudd could not back down due to previous backflips. So he falls on his sword and lets Gillard come in with a supposedly clean record.
 
yep, they raised that on Insiders on Sunday

Labor had to do this. It's a shame that they did. Sitting through this, all I can think of is Iemma. And now that the precedent is set at the federal level, what's to stop Arbib from putting someone else in power in a few months time?
 
Hmmm….i was expecting things to change today....New PM and all....

Nothin....
 
@Yossarian said:
@Kaiser said:
@stryker said:
unions are back in full control.

WATCH OUT FOR THE REDS!!!!! ARRRGGGHHHH THE COMMIES WILL DESTROY THE COUNTRY AND TURN US TO SLAVESS… ARRGGHHHHHHHH

Check under the bed Kaiser, apparently that's where they normally hide. Someone has to protect us from those evil organisations trying to get a better deal for workers. Why can't they be more like the Minerals Council and look after those poor battlers trying to say in the Top 10 BRW lists??

Twiggy mate, hang in there - relief is at hand!!!

Wow some of the stupidest comments I've heard in years above …bravo mindless sheep.

Yossarian why dont you get your placcards and hit the streets?? you sound exactly like one of the mindless drones that the unions prey upon.
 
@stryker said:
@Yossarian said:
@Kaiser said:
WATCH OUT FOR THE REDS!!!!! ARRRGGGHHHH THE COMMIES WILL DESTROY THE COUNTRY AND TURN US TO SLAVESS… ARRGGHHHHHHHH

Check under the bed Kaiser, apparently that's where they normally hide. Someone has to protect us from those evil organisations trying to get a better deal for workers. Why can't they be more like the Minerals Council and look after those poor battlers trying to say in the Top 10 BRW lists??

Twiggy mate, hang in there - relief is at hand!!!

Wow some of the stupidest comments I've heard in years above …bravo mindless sheep.

Yossarian why dont you get your placcards and hit the streets?? you sound exactly like one of the mindless drones that the unions prey upon.

LOL! Classic. Typical neo-con attitude - anyone who disagrees is a mindless drone or a sheep!

Yeah those union guys are right up there with the old British navy pressganging innocent members of the public into their evil plan to get better pay and conditions!!

Give my regards to Clive Palmer when you see him and tell him if he's down to his last $4 billion he can crash at my place with the rest of the flock uh I mean family…
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXf0yIRcdnI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Mate as a man who once belonged to the ETU and has been around the CFMEU for all my working life,I can vouch for their effectiveness in the 80's and early 90's and their uselessness ever since.
They ARE NOT about getting better pay and conditions for employees, that is all a charade - I have personally dealt with these blokes for 10 years now ( which has included 4 EBA negotiations ). The reps are only putting on a show for the employees. Simple as that.

Their real goal is to recruit as many members as possible so as to achieve their ultimate wish…POWER. I remember when Hawke was in power and I was an apprentice, the CFMEU would come storming onto job sites worth 10's of millions of dollars and shut the whole thing down, chaining the gates and leave the site locked for weeks because Johnny had turned up to work pissed and his boss sacked him. We would then be subjected to a rally where the union leader would climb a ladder and scream and rant how we wouldn't be going back to work until these mongrel f'n c's gave in...which they had no choice but to do. Us workers would then be subjected to 12 hour days, 6, sometimes 7 days a week to catch up on lost productivity as the client would not grant an extension as it would cost too much for them to do so.

Where was the union then? back in their offices working their "40 hour weeks" and backslapping each other. One thing I left out was back in those days it was compulsary to be a member and we had to tow their line - not our bosses.

Howard cleaned this mess up over his couple of terms to the point where the unions became almost powerless. They'd still come on the sites and yell and scream but they would have to be granted permission to do so first and usually their meetings would be conducted during meal breaks.

Rudd was swept to power on the back of the unions BS about workchoices and have enjoyed three years of massive growth. They are back on the sites shutting down work, they are threatening strikes at the drop of a hat and as everyone saw yesterday, they are again a very powerful group of organisations. Rudds throat was cut by union powerbrokers and factional warlords who will do anything...ANYTHING to stay in power. Gillard is as union as they come. Why do you think she was their choice?

Having unelected, faceless beauracrats and union heavy weights pulling all the strings to how this country is run is very dangerous indeed. Just look at the mess they have made of NSW and the ridiculous policies they've come out with in the last few years.....they are a cancer on this nation.
 
@stryker said:
Mate as a man who once belonged to the ETU and has been around the CFMEU for all my working life,I can vouch for their effectiveness in the 80's and early 90's and their uselessness ever since.
They ARE NOT about getting better pay and conditions for employees, that is all a charade - I have personally dealt with these blokes for 10 years now ( which has included 4 EBA negotiations ). The reps are only putting on a show for the employees. Simple as that.

Their real goal is to recruit as many members as possible so as to achieve their ultimate wish…POWER. I remember when Hawke was in power and I was an apprentice, the CFMEU would come storming onto job sites worth 10's of millions of dollars and shut the whole thing down, chaining the gates and leave the site locked for weeks because Johnny had turned up to work p**s and his boss sacked him. We would then be subjected to a rally where the union leader would climb a ladder and scream and rant how we wouldn't be going back to work until these mongrel f'n c's gave in...which they had no choice but to do. Us workers would then be subjected to 12 hour days, 6, sometimes 7 days a week to catch up on lost productivity as the client would not grant an extension as it would cost too much for them to do so.

Where was the union then? back in their offices working their "40 hour weeks" and backslapping each other. One thing I left out was back in those days it was compulsary to be a member and we had to tow their line - not our bosses.

Howard cleaned this mess up over his couple of terms to the point where the unions became almost powerless. They'd still come on the sites and yell and scream but they would have to be granted permission to do so first and usually their meetings would be conducted during meal breaks.

Rudd was swept to power on the back of the unions BS about workchoices and have enjoyed three years of massive growth. They are back on the sites shutting down work, they are threatening strikes at the drop of a hat and as everyone saw yesterday, they are again a very powerful group of organisations. Rudds throat was cut by union powerbrokers and factional warlords who will do anything...ANYTHING to stay in power. Gillard is as union as they come. Why do you think she was their choice?

Having unelected, faceless beauracrats and union heavy weights pulling all the strings to how this country is run is very dangerous indeed. Just look at the mess they have made of NSW and the ridiculous policies they've come out with in the last few years.....they are a cancer on this nation.

Wow….

What crap
 
I agree with him in some respects about the unions.

It is not the looming menace on a soulless quest for power however.

Stryker is spot on about the work place shutdowns in the early 80's but there was some real chest beating on either side which led to it.
 
@stryker said:
Mate as a man who once belonged to the ETU and has been around the CFMEU for all my working life,I can vouch for their effectiveness in the 80's and early 90's and their uselessness ever since.
They ARE NOT about getting better pay and conditions for employees, that is all a charade - I have personally dealt with these blokes for 10 years now ( which has included 4 EBA negotiations ). The reps are only putting on a show for the employees. Simple as that.

Their real goal is to recruit as many members as possible so as to achieve their ultimate wish…POWER. I remember when Hawke was in power and I was an apprentice, the CFMEU would come storming onto job sites worth 10's of millions of dollars and shut the whole thing down, chaining the gates and leave the site locked for weeks because Johnny had turned up to work p**s and his boss sacked him. We would then be subjected to a rally where the union leader would climb a ladder and scream and rant how we wouldn't be going back to work until these mongrel f'n c's gave in...which they had no choice but to do. Us workers would then be subjected to 12 hour days, 6, sometimes 7 days a week to catch up on lost productivity as the client would not grant an extension as it would cost too much for them to do so.

Where was the union then? back in their offices working their "40 hour weeks" and backslapping each other. One thing I left out was back in those days it was compulsary to be a member and we had to tow their line - not our bosses.

Howard cleaned this mess up over his couple of terms to the point where the unions became almost powerless. They'd still come on the sites and yell and scream but they would have to be granted permission to do so first and usually their meetings would be conducted during meal breaks.

Rudd was swept to power on the back of the unions BS about workchoices and have enjoyed three years of massive growth. They are back on the sites shutting down work, they are threatening strikes at the drop of a hat and as everyone saw yesterday, they are again a very powerful group of organisations. Rudds throat was cut by union powerbrokers and factional warlords who will do anything...ANYTHING to stay in power. Gillard is as union as they come. Why do you think she was their choice?

Having unelected, faceless beauracrats and union heavy weights pulling all the strings to how this country is run is very dangerous indeed. Just look at the mess they have made of NSW and the ridiculous policies they've come out with in the last few years.....they are a cancer on this nation.

You're talking about one union. That's like saying James Hardie is representative of all building material manufacturers. And union officals are elected - I would have thought a comrade of such long union standing as yourself would know something like that…
 
@smeghead said:
I agree with him in some respects about the unions.

It is not the looming menace on a soulless quest for power however.

Stryker is spot on about the work place shutdowns in the early 80's but there was some real chest beating on either side which led to it.

The CFMEU and perhaps the MUA are a different kettle of fish to the more mainstream unions. Very bolshy but again not really reflective of the average union or union member.
 
Saying Rudd was ambushed by the Unions is rubbish, the right ambushed Rudd which was the irony of the whole thing. Nothing works perfectly, and the unions for all their flaws provide an integral part of Australia. We are already an over-worked and under-paid country… Howard's workchoices was absolute garbage and I fail to see why anyone (who's a worker anyway) would ever support it.

Also, to say Howard "cleaned up" the unions is BS too... he tried to destroy them for his mates and very near did with Workchoices.

I get annoyed with what some of the unions do, in-fact and come from a family very much involved with a certain union. Strykers post is a perfect example of the scare-mongering from the other-side, both sides play at it but I am sick to death of these false portrayals that "mindless" Australia falls for...

Like Yossarian mentioned, you bring up an extreme example. The Unions now are not the same as they were and are very much controlled. Nor are all Unions the same. Those who work as delegates and so on, often work outside work hours and have their personal and professional lives affected severely without any form of remuneration. I commend these people and think they are the backbone of any workforce.
 
@Kaiser said:
Saying Rudd was ambushed by the Unions is rubbish, the right ambushed Rudd which was the irony of the whole thing.
That is half correct, but to say that they weren't involved is a deadset lie.

Also, to say Howard "cleaned up" the unions is BS too… he tried to destroy them for his mates and very near did with Workchoices.
And you claim I speak rhetoric.....

I get annoyed with what some of the unions do, in-fact and come from a family very much involved with a certain union. Strykers post is a perfect example of the scare-mongering from the other-side, both sides play at it
Whether you mean to or not your posts are as well, I mean coming from a family of union involvement doesn't exactly give you an open mind on the subject.

Like Yossarian mentioned, you bring up an extreme example. The Unions now are not the same as they were and are very much controlled
I'm sorry but that is not an extreme example it was the norm when I was a young bloke. They have started with their standover man tactics again and if we get another three years of Labor rule their strength will only grow.
 
@Yossarian said:
The CFMEU and perhaps the MUA are a different kettle of fish to the more mainstream unions. Very bolshy but again not really reflective of the average union or union member.

Those two are the ones I am talking about and you know it.
As for your last sentence, what are you basing that on?
Who's being obstreperous now????
 
Whether you mean to or not your posts are as well, I mean coming from a family of union involvement doesn't exactly give you an open mind on the subject.

Not claiming it does… but I wouldn't claim to have an open mind on the matter either stryker given your history.

Mate we will never agree on this but

They have started with their standover man tactics again and if we get another three years of Labor rule their strength will only grow.

This is what I mean... stop with the oogggyy booggy crap. This is simply NOT true... the Labor gov. is NOT ruled by the Unions... ask the USU what they think about the NSW gov.
 
@Yossarian said:
You're talking about one union. That's like saying James Hardie is representative of all building material manufacturers. And union officals are elected - I would have thought a comrade of such long union standing as yourself would know something like that…

I am not talking about the one union, I was a member of the ETU, it was the CFMEU who were closing down the work sites and it's them who are appearing way to regularly on them again now. Add them to the MWU, the MUA and so on its all the construction forrestry and mining unions and associated unions.

I know that union officials are elected, stop putting words in my mouth.
You know what I meant.
 
Forrestry & Mining are two sectors that actually gain great benefit from Unionisation in terms of guaranteed working & afety conditions and accountability for the multi nationals.

Yes there are some over zealous delegates in some sites but overall it is a fairly decent balance
 
@Kaiser said:
They have started with their standover man tactics again and if we get another three years of Labor rule their strength will only grow.

This is what I mean… stop with the oogggyy booggy crap. This is simply NOT true... the Labor gov. is NOT ruled by the Unions... ask the USU what they think about the NSW gov.

It's not 'OOOGGY BOOGGY" crap I'm referring to their stand over man tactics in workplace. I don't know about the USU as I've never had to deal with them. The union officials in the workplace are thugs…simple as that. Labor is aligned with the unions...simple as that.

As for your call about ooggy booggy, Labor won the last election based on this and there are still posters everywhere I look to remind me.

FTR I am niether Labor nor Liberal aligned....I am relatively open minded about both, but I will admit that I am not open minded about the unions...I hate them and have very solid reasons to.
 
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