Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Yossarian]

Fair points Yoss except for Rudd…he wouldnt know an original idea if it bit him on the bum. How else could you explain his ridiculous 20/20 summit?
Just finished watching QandA with Gillard and on the whole I thought she did pretty well. As one twitterer said though..."she is working the room beautifully". I thought the same. She seemed to be very poised, confident and to have all the answers. But if you listened to what she actually said, most of her answers were merely a re-arranging of the crowd members question - although quite a lot more articulartly - and contained little substance. Abott is on next week and he'll be exactly the same, I'm sure of it.

That's because Gillard is a disciple of Bob Hawke who was a master of getting away with saying very little. You're harsh on Rudd. He had some good policy but lacked the patience to work through it (or perhaps more so lacked the confidence in others to flesh out details). The health and ETS stuff had the makings of good policy. Same with a lot of the stimulus stuff.

20/20 was a wankfest but then again so was the Constitutional Convention. In fact anything that involves Barry Jones is probably best avoided unless you like empty rhetoric.

 

[hammertime]

Now, this is good alternate policy.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/economy/coalition-pushes-6b-affordable-broadband-plan-in-lieu-of-nbn-20100810-11vtl.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Yossarian]

Now, this is good alternate policy.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/economy/coalition-pushes-6b-affordable-broadband-plan-in-lieu-of-nbn-20100810-11vtl.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LOL - It MIGHT reach 100 Mps. And we MIGHT win the premiership :laughing:

 

[hammertime]

Now, this is good alternate policy.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/economy/coalition-pushes-6b-affordable-broadband-plan-in-lieu-of-nbn-20100810-11vtl.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LOL - It MIGHT reach 100 Mps. And we MIGHT win the premiership :laughing:

I can think of many ways to spend the extra $40 billion than to ensure that to ASSURE US we can download a movie in 5 minutes instead of 6.

WiMax will soon be capable of 1Gbit, 10 times faster than the Govt network. It will reach more devices and eliminate the need for mobile phone infrastructure. No one knows the future, but do you honestly don't think mobility of technology is where it's all heading? e.g how about the advances in auto and having cars communicate with each other for crash avoidance?

Actually, nah… lets put all our eggs in one basket, spend $4000 per household, use inflexible tech and let a party manage the scheme who probably couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag.

 

[Yossarian]

Now, this is good alternate policy.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/economy/coalition-pushes-6b-affordable-broadband-plan-in-lieu-of-nbn-20100810-11vtl.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LOL - It MIGHT reach 100 Mps. And we MIGHT win the premiership :laughing:

I can think of many ways to spend the extra $40 billion than to ensure that to ASSURE US we can download a movie in 5 minutes instead of 6.

WiMax will soon be capable of 1Gbit, 10 times faster than the Govt network. It will reach more devices and eliminate the need for mobile phone infrastructure. No one knows the future, but do you honestly don't think mobility of technology is where it's all heading? e.g how about the advances in auto and having cars communicate with each other for crash avoidance?

Actually, nah… lets put all our eggs in one basket, spend $4000 per household, use inflexible tech and let a party manage the scheme who probably couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag.

Very visionary of you. Good thing you weren't around when they were planning the railways…

But of course the only benefit is faster movie downloads. Business won't benefit at all. That's why the Libs are putting up an alternate proposal...

 

[hammertime]

Very visionary of you. Good thing you weren't around when they were planning the railways…

But of course the only benefit is faster movie downloads. Business won't benefit at all. That's why the Libs are putting up an alternate proposal...

How will business benefit that can't be done now? Just give me 1 decent example that the libs plan won't cover, besides less grainy video, and I'll agree with you that the extra $5k this will cost from each household is worth it.

Sarcasm aside, you honestly think we aren't moving into a era where Internet will be used consistantly outside the home? Providing wireless everywhere will be more beneficial to business. Think about logistics, presentations, teleconferencing, trading, mining, agriculture. The libs plan to cover more surface area of aus by making this their focus….

There is a reason why private companies are trailing WiMax in Perth. It has a business case.

 

[Yossarian]

Very visionary of you. Good thing you weren't around when they were planning the railways…

But of course the only benefit is faster movie downloads. Business won't benefit at all. That's why the Libs are putting up an alternate proposal...

How will business benefit that can't be done now? Just give me 1 decent example that the libs plan won't cover, besides less grainy video, and I'll agree with you that the extra $5k this will cost from each household is worth it.

Sarcasm aside, you honestly think we aren't moving into a era where Internet will be used consistantly outside the home? Providing wireless everywhere will be more beneficial to business. Think about logistics, presentations, teleconferencing, trading, mining, agriculture. The libs plan to cover more surface area of aus by making this their focus….

There is a reason why private companies are trailing WiMax in Perth. It has a business case.

Please. Every reputable ICT expert is backing the ALP plan over the Libs. They're talking copper wires and fixed wireless against fibre optic.

If you seriously can't see the advantage to business for having faster broadband then there's no point having this conversation. Hard as it may be to see, the internet does have other purposes other than personal downloading.

 

[hammertime]

Please. Every reputable ICT expert is backing the ALP plan over the Libs. They're talking copper wires and fixed wireless against fibre optic.

That's because the Labor plan will yield better speeds. They don't care about any cost/benefit analysis.

If you seriously can't see the advantage to business for having faster broadband then there's no point having this conversation. Hard as it may be to see, the internet does have other purposes other than personal downloading

I'm starting a big website and I can't think of how it will help me. Like I said, name just one that can't be done now that is worth even a 1/100th of the money. I bet you'll be racking your brain to think of one.

 

[stryker]

Yossarian, Labors plan is gonna take 8 years minimum and cost 43 Billion - minimum….I maen realistically you could add a couple of years and 10 Billion to that going on past performances.

Why does the government have to build it? why cant the companies who are the experts in the field get the job done?

 

[Bismark]

1915 (Balmain) - Labor
1916 (Balmain) Labor
1917 (Balmain) - Labor
1919 (Balmain) - Labor
1920 (Balmain) Labor
1924 (Balmain) - Nationalist [Now Liberal]
1930 (Magpies) - Labor
1934 (Magpies) - United Australia [Now Liberal]
1939 (Balmain) - United Australia [Now Liberal]
1944 (Balmain) - Labor
1946 (Balmain) - Labor
1947 (Balmain) - Labor
1948 (Magpies) - Labor
1952 (Magpies) - Liberal
1969 (Balmain) - Liberal
2005 (Wests Tigers) - Liberal

OK, so how do we vote?

Historically, we are more likely winning under Gillard. (10 to Labor, 6 to Liberal)

However, on Form, Liberal's have 3 in a row, looking for a fourth.

All signs point to a donkey vote Tigers fans!

 

[alien]

I'm still undecided..

 

[alex]

Watched the two leaders Q&A at Rooty Hill RSL tonight on Sky News … gotta say Abbott did a better job

And no ETS/Carbon Tax has got me leaning more towards Liberal at the moment.

As I was saying to a friend the other day .. you want an extra 200,000 votes? Subsidise text books for uni students. Semester 2 just started and I had to spend $450 on 3 textbooks. I do this twice a year and spend around $400-500 each time. Either that or include the textbooks in HECS/defer the payment. They'd get my vote.

 

[wtffl2005]

Watched the two leaders Q&A at Rooty Hill RSL tonight on Sky News … gotta say Abbott did a better job

Did a better job by a long shot

seemed like abbot was more real than gillard

 

[alex]

I know it's only sort of on topic, but following Commonwealth Bank's $6billion profit, yesterday's poll on ninemsn was "Should banks pay extra tax on very large profit?"

Last time I saw (7:15am Thursday), the votes were Yes - 105,000 to No - 17,000 …

So, we can put big taxes on banks, but not miners? But what people don't realise is this profit when measured against firm size etc, is actually SMALLER than that of Telstra, Woolworths and many others. CBA's return on equity was around 17%, and while this is above average, it's not as big as Telstra. Tax Telstra now?

 

[alien]

I know it's only sort of on topic, but following Commonwealth Bank's $6billion profit, yesterday's poll on ninemsn was "Should banks pay extra tax on very large profit?"

Last time I saw (7:15am Thursday), the votes were Yes - 105,000 to No - 17,000 …

So, we can put big taxes on banks, but not miners? But what people don't realise is this profit when measured against firm size etc, is actually SMALLER than that of Telstra, Woolworths and many others. CBA's return on equity was around 17%, and while this is above average, it's not as big as Telstra. Tax Telstra now?

Yeah I saw that. If banks start getting taxed more then do you think the banks might put bank fees up?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I know it's only sort of on topic, but following Commonwealth Bank's $6billion profit, yesterday's poll on ninemsn was "Should banks pay extra tax on very large profit?"

Last time I saw (7:15am Thursday), the votes were Yes - 105,000 to No - 17,000 …

So, we can put big taxes on banks, but not miners? But what people don't realise is this profit when measured against firm size etc, is actually SMALLER than that of Telstra, Woolworths and many others. CBA's return on equity was around 17%, and while this is above average, it's not as big as Telstra. Tax Telstra now?

Yeah I saw that. If banks start getting taxed more then do you think the banks might put bank fees up?

Yeah but that's of no consequence to the pollies, who will spend the rest of their existence bludging off the taxpayer.

 

[alien]

If they give to you in one way they take from you in another way.

 

[Yossarian]

Yossarian, Labors plan is gonna take 8 years minimum and cost 43 Billion - minimum….I maen realistically you could add a couple of years and 10 Billion to that going on past performances.

Why does the government have to build it? why cant the companies who are the experts in the field get the job done?

It's nationally significant infrastructure. That's why.

 

[hammertime]

Yossarian, Labors plan is gonna take 8 years minimum and cost 43 Billion - minimum….I maen realistically you could add a couple of years and 10 Billion to that going on past performances.

Why does the government have to build it? why cant the companies who are the experts in the field get the job done?

It's nationally significant infrastructure. That's why.

There is a reason why the Seven network is building WiMax in Perth and that the prior Liberal OPEL policy was based around it. Either that or LTE would be much better options for business and our economy and it's why the private sector is involved in this tech!!

When WiMax upgrades to the new standard later this year, it will get over 100Mbps. That's just in a few months time it will match the governments suggestion with minimal upgrade cost.

Honestly, I don't think Abbotts policy is fantastic. But it does do 2 things. Save our money for when we need it in about 10 years time and limit the governments ability to waste money by bringing in the private sector.

 

[Yossarian]

Yossarian, Labors plan is gonna take 8 years minimum and cost 43 Billion - minimum….I maen realistically you could add a couple of years and 10 Billion to that going on past performances.

Why does the government have to build it? why cant the companies who are the experts in the field get the job done?

It's nationally significant infrastructure. That's why.

There is a reason why the Seven network is building WiMax in Perth and that the prior Liberal OPEL policy was based around it. Either that or LTE would be much better options for business and our economy and it's why the private sector is involved in this tech!!

When WiMax upgrades to the new standard later this year, it will get over 100Mbps. That's just in a few months time it will match the governments suggestion with minimal upgrade cost.

Honestly, I don't think Abbotts policy is fantastic. But it does do 2 things. Save our money for when we need it in about 10 years time and limit the governments ability to waste money by bringing in the private sector.

I think this one is boiling down to the fundamental difference between Labor and Liberal over public v private investment in these kind of things. Personally I think the Coalition model has far too many ifs and buts to be taken seriously as an credible alternative. Then it comes down to (as you point out) whether you want to spend the cash or not.

Personally I think this is something the government should be spearheading but like I say, it's a personal philosophy as much as anything.