Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Cultured_Bogan]

You really think the PRC will stop buying our goods based on an angry oneliner? Come on now… They were more upset with Rudd's comments re the Hu trial.

And yeah, Downer never left Australia did he? Which particular trip or trips would you have cancelled for Kev?

No, but I'm saying that he doesn't have the characteristics of a good diplomat if he can't control his temper.

Rudds spend has FAR exceeded downers. I'll track down some figures if you would like?

Sure go for it. The only figures I saw suggested Rudd spent a week longer travelling than Downer over a comparable period including trips to exotic locations like Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Jordan, and Bahrain. But in either case, it's not the expense but the justification for the travel so again I ask what trip(s) do you suggest Rudd should not have taken? Should he travel to say the USA or Thailand rather than Kazakhstan or Kenya because the first two are cheaper?

All I'm saying is this whole travel business has always been a cheap shot. Rudd is one of the best FA Ministers we've had in some time and he was spot on in his assessment of Libya and Japan. Downer struggled at the South Pacific Forum.

Here we go.. doesn't have any figures though, but double Downers time.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/minister-for-frequent-flying-20110312-1bs29.html

…and yes, I would suggest he spend more time in the USA or Thailand rather than **Kazakhstan** or Liechtenstein who really won't do much for our nation. Cost v Benefit analysis - maybe Labor should learn what one of those are.

He could negotiate a better price on Potassium exports, that would drive the price of my Warfarin down! :smiley:

 

[Yossarian]

You really think the PRC will stop buying our goods based on an angry oneliner? Come on now… They were more upset with Rudd's comments re the Hu trial.

And yeah, Downer never left Australia did he? Which particular trip or trips would you have cancelled for Kev?

No, but I'm saying that he doesn't have the characteristics of a good diplomat if he can't control his temper.

Rudds spend has FAR exceeded downers. I'll track down some figures if you would like?

Sure go for it. The only figures I saw suggested Rudd spent a week longer travelling than Downer over a comparable period including trips to exotic locations like Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Jordan, and Bahrain. But in either case, it's not the expense but the justification for the travel so again I ask what trip(s) do you suggest Rudd should not have taken? Should he travel to say the USA or Thailand rather than Kazakhstan or Kenya because the first two are cheaper?

All I'm saying is this whole travel business has always been a cheap shot. Rudd is one of the best FA Ministers we've had in some time and he was spot on in his assessment of Libya and Japan. Downer struggled at the South Pacific Forum.

Here we go.. doesn't have any figures though, but double Downers time.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/minister-for-frequent-flying-20110312-1bs29.html

…and yes, I would suggest he spend more time in the USA or Thailand rather than Kazakhstan or Liechtenstein who really won't do much for our nation. Cost v Benefit analysis - maybe Labor should learn what one of those are.

Kazakhstan is of enourmous interest to Australia if we're going to continue to fight wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. In general it is the most important of the Asian FSRs. Anyway the map clearly shows he did go to the USA.

What the map also shows is Lechie Downer's complete lack of interest in the world. It's all South Pacific, Europe and North America. In other words, places where Lechie can put his perfumed feet up and not worry about having to travel in areas which actually have a significant impact on global security. Why was K-Rudd in Leichenstein? No sure but I'd suggest it had something to do with taxation. As you would no doubt be aware, that country does a roaring trade in providing tax dodges to wealthy Westerners. In fact a quick visit to the DFA website tells us:
_En route to the Munich Security Conference Mr Rudd will also incorporate a short side trip to Liechtenstein where he will hold discussions with Foreign Minister Frick, including progressing the Tax Information Exchange Agreement_
Therefore, far from being a dumb sidetrip to a meaningless country, Rudd's visit stands to make the taxpayers a lot of money.
There are a number of things which need to be said:
1\. Rudd is going to a stack of serious regional players like Ethiopia and Kazakhstan who represent trade oppertunities, have significant impact on major regional conflicts, are influencial in UN voting and therefore of use if Australia seeks a Security Council position, and were completely ignored during Downer's 13 years.
2\. Rudd is actually advancing an independent foreign policy after years of it being outsourced to the USA.
3\. I am yet to see a reputable article suggesting Rudd should not have gone on any of these trips. The obvious implication is that Downer did not travel enough.
4\. Rudd has been spot on and outfront on Libya and Japan.

 

[Yossarian]

He could negotiate a better price on Potassium exports, that would drive the price of my Warfarin down! :smiley:

Are the Kazakhs big potassium exporters? I confess to an ignorance on this subject!

 

[Yossarian]

Here's a nice piece when the shoe was on the other foot. Note Downer's response which is basically "Get stuffed - I'm not telling you!"

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=CHAMBER;id=chamber%2Fhansardr%2F2005-05-26%2F0202;query=Id%3A%22chamber%2Fhansardr%2F2005-05-26%2F0079%22

 

[happy_tiger]

there You really think the PRC will stop buying our goods based on an angry oneliner? Come on now… They were more upset with Rudd's comments re the Hu trial.

And yeah, Downer never left Australia did he? Which particular trip or trips would you have cancelled for Kev?

No, but I'm saying that he doesn't have the characteristics of a good diplomat if he can't control his temper.

Rudds spend has FAR exceeded downers. I'll track down some figures if you would like?

Sure go for it. The only figures I saw suggested Rudd spent a week longer travelling than Downer over a comparable period including trips to exotic locations like Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Jordan, and Bahrain. But in either case, it's not the expense but the justification for the travel so again I ask what trip(s) do you suggest Rudd should not have taken? Should he travel to say the USA or Thailand rather than Kazakhstan or Kenya because the first two are cheaper?

All I'm saying is this whole travel business has always been a cheap shot. Rudd is one of the best FA Ministers we've had in some time and he was spot on in his assessment of Libya and Japan. Downer struggled at the South Pacific Forum.

Here we go.. doesn't have any figures though, but double Downers time.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/minister-for-frequent-flying-20110312-1bs29.html

…and yes, I would suggest he spend more time in the USA or Thailand rather than **Kazakhstan** or Liechtenstein who really won't do much for our nation. Cost v Benefit analysis - maybe Labor should learn what one of those are.

He could negotiate a better price on Potassium exports, that would drive the price of my Warfarin down! :smiley:
If you are serious about Warfarin check around I find some chemist offer it half the price of others CB Hope that helps

 

[stryker]

Sick of hearing about these detainees still getting away with flaunting the law and essentially giving the authorities the finger.

Wouldn't it be great if it was that easy…..dont like something or cant get your way so you set everything on fire and pelt the coppers and fireies with debris.

Whenever they are interviewed they spew rhetoric about what a racist country we have here.

The ones that are struggling to be accepted as fair dinkum refugees are their own worst enemies. They get rid of all their paperwork then demand asylum. Then when they cant get their way they riot and protest.

About time we drag them down, punish the ones who destroyed the buildings and boot the rest out.

I'm not a racist...in fact I regularly abuse others for being so but this is getting on my nerves. Kick them out and they can take those pathetic Australian protesters who are backing them up with them.

Are my thoughts out of line here?

 

[alexaki]

10000% behind you…..

 

[Tiger_Watto]

I'm hearing ya Stryker… Unfortunately, it comes back to politicians, media and an ignorant society Australia is becoming...

I'm sure if I started burning buildings and standed on roof tops and throwing bricks/tiles at local authorities, I'd get a tazer pointed quick smart at my chest...

Nothing is gona change, infact it will only get worse, until we obolish compulsary voting and the 2 party preferred system within this country... oh, and when someone puts a muzzle on Terry O'Gorman!!!

 

[alexaki]

look at the UK Asylum seeker model….over there the "new citizens" are running amok.....

 

[Tiger_Watto]

There's a big difference between Asylum Seeker and those people who travel through 3 continents to arrive in Australia Illegally… I'd call that looking for a new lifestyle!!!

 

[system]

Yeah I don't understand why the refugees and asylum seekers have been bundled into one great lot.

It is a complex issue with many variable but the line has been crossed by the vandals and petty criminals involved in this latest incident without doubt.

Real policy will never, ever be formulated however whilst ever it remains an issue so freely capable of pushing the voting publics agendas and questions about our society to the non issue.

Both parties campaigned on this issue last election because it pushes buttons. It is a problem to be solved by beaurocrats with set guidelines, not to base the vote for governance on

 

[Kul]

Moving this to the politics thread

 

[Kul]

So the DT is running a poll:
Do you think the baby bonus should be scrapped to rein in population growth?

Yes 80.33%
No 19.67%

early days, yes, but if the current result is any indication of where the poll will end up, it highlights the utter economic ignorance of the readership of the DT and the pandering that the paper does to that section of society. I hope to god that they don't run with an anti-growth/anti-birth agenda or we are screwed.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm not sure all the no voters are anti-birth or anti-growth. There is a segment who believe (rightly or wrongly) that the taxpayer shouldn't be funding what is basically a lifestyle choice.

 

[happy_tiger]

I think the issue is now that young people are now having babies for the sake of the baby bonus . The Anglican Church has come out and said that they feel that the baby bonus should be scrapped for that reason That is probably why DT is running pole .I think that it needs to be monitored and that the money should only be used for baby purposes ie You need to produce receipts that you have spent money for the baby . Much like you do to claim medical expenses at tax time and you would be then reimbursed at tax time . We had 2 kids during the time of baby bonuses .

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

My parents didn't a baby bonus for having me or my two siblings, and their parents didn't receive it either… My grandmother raised four children on her own without any assistance as a full time worker and she owns her own home & car and enjoys a comfortable retirement!

It's ridiculous that the taxpayer is expected to subsidise people having children! And the biggest issue regarding the bonus is as HT mentioned that you have teenagers totally unprepared for parenthood having children for the sake of the bonus, and knowing most of my fellow Gen Y'ers, probably misappropriating the funds toward a flat screen television/iPhone/2nd-Hand-Daihatsu-Charade etc instead of setting themselves up for the arrival of the child.

 

[Kul]

So I searched for the statement by the Anglican Church and their main concern was actual population numbers

If it was in regards to freeloading and lifestyle choices and all that jazz, then I would support their argument. However their concern was the population figure as a whole. The baby bonus or other incentives to get down and dirty shouldn't be removed. I'm all for less government, but in this instance a bit of a push (what ever it may be) is required to mitigate the onset of screwed demographics

it makes the most economic sense

 

[system]

Especially considering the later ages the Baby Boomers tail end is working towards and their spendthrift ideals.

There is going to be a paralysing aged care cost hitting the taxpayer in the near future

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I'm not against population growth, unlike the Anglican Church. As said, the ageing population is going to be a killer on the taxpayer.

I just don't like the idea that because both I and my girlfriend choose to wait until I'm financially secure and mentally ready to have children that my taxpayer dollars (along with everyone elses of course,) will ease the burden of numerous randy teenagers who got more than they bargained for because they were too stupid to listen in Health class.

 

[Spartan117]

If you wait to long CB you will miss out on being a a young dad which I love. Life is less about things (Though I have more than most) and about what you can do for Others IMO

Its hard work and at times very frustrating but its Soo worth it.

I love Population growth, I'm thinking its time for No 5 in my house.

PS - Does anyone else feel so embarrassed about Gillard on TV representing us. She is disgusting.