Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[happy_tiger]

I think she's brought herself some time with her victory this week. If she can work out a deal on the pokies mess she might make it to the next election. Abbott is starting to struggle - he can't just keep saying no without having something to replace it.

Yoss Abbotts policies are all going to be about timing Bringing out brilliant policies when you don't know who the the PM will be week to week isn't smart politics imo

 

[The_Nerd]

Good Calls Happy and Spartan,

Dead Duck PM

 

[Yossarian]

I think she's brought herself some time with her victory this week. If she can work out a deal on the pokies mess she might make it to the next election. Abbott is starting to struggle - he can't just keep saying no without having something to replace it.

Yoss Abbotts policies are all going to be about timing Bringing out brilliant policies when you don't know who the the PM will be week to week isn't smart politics imo

I don't see Happy. His climate change policy is a dog's breakfast (or just a dog) and he's all over the shop on the Super/mining tax thing. He's the worst Lib leader since Downer. Leadership speculation is what keeps the Canberra press gallery. Ever since I've been able to understand what's going on there's been Howard/Peacock, Hawke/Keating, Howard/Costello, Rudd/Gillard and others.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Interesting points by Smeg. That far-right dominance is starting to happen at the state level also (although the Christian influence is moreso outside the Liberal Party in the CDP rather than within the Libs.)
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[hammertime]

I think she's brought herself some time with her victory this week. If she can work out a deal on the pokies mess she might make it to the next election. Abbott is starting to struggle - he can't just keep saying no without having something to replace it.

Yoss Abbotts policies are all going to be about timing Bringing out brilliant policies when you don't know who the the PM will be week to week isn't smart politics imo

I don't see Happy. His climate change policy is a dog's breakfast (or just a dog) and he's all over the shop on the Super/mining tax thing. He's the worst Lib leader since Downer. Leadership speculation is what keeps the Canberra press gallery. Ever since I've been able to understand what's going on there's been Howard/Peacock, Hawke/Keating, Howard/Costello, Rudd/Gillard and others.

The problem is mate that you can't really create alternate policy when you are in opposition. You don't have the resources to cost them since you don't control the budgetary departments. Only once an election is called and it goes into caretaker mode can you do that - although last time we saw leaks to Labor and the Liberals having to use a 3rd party (which stuffed up the costings!)

Abbott can't do much. If you remember how Rudd got in, all he did was copy Howards policies, and add that he will repeal Workchoices and say sorry to the Aboriginal people. That's all he ran on. He didn't need costings. To save money, which is the liberals goal, you do need to know what is going on in the existing policy.

Abbott can only do so much using party resources.

 

[happy_tiger]

Yeah you can create a policy which you think will work and do the initial costings and see where that leads to but not announce it until you have the figures . Thats the point I was trying to make Hammer The Coalition are probably sitting on some good ideas but why use them when they can't be useful or costed correctly

Forgot to add to all of my Qld colleagues on here prepare prepare for a February State Election
Please don't ask me how I know ok as I won't say to protect my source

 

[Yossarian]

I think she's brought herself some time with her victory this week. If she can work out a deal on the pokies mess she might make it to the next election. Abbott is starting to struggle - he can't just keep saying no without having something to replace it.

Yoss Abbotts policies are all going to be about timing Bringing out brilliant policies when you don't know who the the PM will be week to week isn't smart politics imo

I don't see Happy. His climate change policy is a dog's breakfast (or just a dog) and he's all over the shop on the Super/mining tax thing. He's the worst Lib leader since Downer. Leadership speculation is what keeps the Canberra press gallery. Ever since I've been able to understand what's going on there's been Howard/Peacock, Hawke/Keating, Howard/Costello, Rudd/Gillard and others.

The problem is mate that you can't really create alternate policy when you are in opposition. You don't have the resources to cost them since you don't control the budgetary departments. Only once an election is called and it goes into caretaker mode can you do that - although last time we saw leaks to Labor and the Liberals having to use a 3rd party (which stuffed up the costings!)

Mate, with respect, that's a cop out. The evidence that Treasury were leaking anything was pretty thin and even if you buy that, there are any number of respected firms out there that could have done it. The fact they chose some mob who looked like a backyard accounting firm just made it look like they knew their figures were rubbery. As it was they didn't even work out the underlying merit in their costings, they just added the figures up and as you say they even stuffed that up.

You're being far too kind on Tony. Yes I accept the limitation of setting out policy without knowing your bottom line but it isn't that hard to form policies with some idea of how much it will cost. His main problem is when he has a policy it is either stupid and/or ineffective (his direct action climate change policy) or indecisive (CSG or the mining tax/super debacle).

 

[Kul]

which mine dude?

ravensworth underground mate

Interesting. Well I hope for your sake this doesn't occur.
I'd be interested to hear their justification for it, be it due to the Clean Energy bills or otherwise - will keep an eye on their media site.
Xstrata just had a Part3A approved in Feb for an increase of 5 million tones per annumn to 7 at that part or the operation, with the company as recently as last month calling the operation "strong and robust" - hopefully what you are hearing is just talk.

If they do pull out, I'm sure someone else will snap up the site.

 

[hammertime]

Mate, with respect, that's a cop out. The evidence that Treasury were leaking anything was pretty thin and even if you buy that, there are any number of respected firms out there that could have done it. The fact they chose some mob who looked like a backyard accounting firm just made it look like they knew their figures were rubbery. As it was they didn't even work out the underlying merit in their costings, they just added the figures up and as you say they even stuffed that up.

You're being far too kind on Tony. Yes I accept the limitation of setting out policy without knowing your bottom line but it isn't that hard to form policies with some idea of how much it will cost. His main problem is when he has a policy it is either stupid and/or ineffective (his direct action climate change policy) or indecisive (CSG or the mining tax/super debacle).

It's really not a cop out. Like I said, Rudd went into government without any policy. People just wanted change. You saw Tony come out with alternate policy before the last election, he will do that again.

You can see clear policy direction in non-costed elements like Asylum Seekers. But you can't when it's an ongoing development, like the NBN, because you don't know what point it will be at when you get into Government. So when they say they are going to save $70bil, it's essentially policy, but they can't work through it properly yet until the government is in lockout and the balance sheet is known.

We know that the NBN will be part of it, but the number will always be up in the air until then. Hence, Labor stupidly locking down as many long-term contracts as they can so the Liberal's goal becomes unachievable.

So, why do you think they went with a 'backyard' (as you put it) accounting firm? You really don't think it was to fudge the figures to only later get lambasted for it? They aren't in the business of committing political suicide. For my mind, there was solid evidence of leaks and I fully understand why they went externally.

Really, I agree, his climate change solution is bad. So I hope Turnbull gets in. He will have an ETS. But overall, the Liberals at the moment are the lesser of 2 evils. There is a far worse policy from Labor than the 1 thing wrong about Abbott's direction.

 

[system]

what are your thoughts on this recent rise in support for Labor smeg?

Granted they are still behind by a fair bit, but Labor has in last couple of months completely reversed their fortunes and have clawed back 5-6 points.

I'm wondering if it's an effect of Julia generally having good media recently and Abbott being quiet, or is it more regression to the mean?

I believe it is in part a reaction to the militancy that has opposed climate change policy and Abbotts bumbling on handling his role as leader. The public seems to be cottoning on to the fact that Tony has only one steadfast policy and that is to disagree with government policy regardless. The problem is that the Coalition misread the current parliament. They honestly believed we would run a double dissolution within the first 18 months of the terms and that they could freeze all important policy.

It is a pretty interesting time all round

 

[hammertime]

Geez, I wish Costello was back leading government…

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/an-industry-in-profit-is-an-industry-worth-supporting-20111108-1n5az.html

 

[happy_tiger]

Geez, I wish Costello was back leading government…

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/an-industry-in-profit-is-an-industry-worth-supporting-20111108-1n5az.html

x 10000 Hammer People seem to forget how good a treasurer he was

With Costello as PM and Turnbull as deputy I would say economically we would have the strongest leaders in world politics

 

[hammertime]

Geez, I wish Costello was back leading government…

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/an-industry-in-profit-is-an-industry-worth-supporting-20111108-1n5az.html

x 10000 Hammer People seem to forget how good a treasurer he was

With Costello as PM and Turnbull as deputy I would say economically we would have the strongest leaders in world politics

100% mate.

Although, would we be casting aside the 'World treasurer of the year' :roll :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :wtf

 

[system]

As stated before they would never work together. The personal issues would not allow it.

I personally would love to see a new party headed by Rudd and Turnbull sweep to power

 

[happy_tiger]

As stated before they would never work together. The personal issues would not allow it.

I personally would love to see a new party headed by Rudd and Turnbull sweep to power

Keating and Hawke managed to work together for years despite their issues
Costello and Howard managed to work together for many year despite their leadership issues

Every day we work closely with people you wouldn't talk to outside of work Smeg

It doesn't matter because we will never find out anyway because of those fantastic ALP voters decided to get rid of Howard
One of the reasons voting in Australia shouldn't be compulsory Too many sheep want to turn it into a popularity contest instead of using the thing in their heads (that still hasn't been taken out of the box in a lot of situations) to make logical decisions which aren't still affected by the consumption of drugs and alcohol from the night before

 

[hammertime]

As stated before they would never work together. The personal issues would not allow it.

I personally would love to see a new party headed by Rudd and Turnbull sweep to power

Come on mate…Rudd? I think people forget that a lot of the damage that Gillard has been inflicted was a result of Rudd. He wasted billions of our money on bar napkin policy. Talk about a mismatch with him and Costello.

I don't want someone in power who is there to make a name for themselves. Turnbull and Costello are guys who care about the future of this country. They aren't there for a power trip.

What are you basing the Costello/Turnbull theory on?

 

[system]

Personal knowledge of the two parties relationship with one another.

I would like to see Rudd without being hamstrung by the ALP's back room. He is one of the most effective bureaucrats in recent political history and if in a system with truly like minded individuals capable of enacting proper policy reform.

To say he is out to make a name for himself is false and has been one of the great myths purported by loud mouth stooges like Hadley and Jones. If Rudd really wanted to make a name for himself he would have taken the route offered early in his career which would have all but guaranteed him a high ranking position within the UN's offices. Their is a far greater mouthpiece and place in the history books for leaders within the UN than there is in the trivial doddle of Aus. politics

The amount of policy that Rudd and Turnbull agree upon is far greater than either will find within their own party. The remainder of policy they are smart and reasonable enough men to find common ground and move forward in the best interest of the country

 

[happy_tiger]

Personal knowledge of the two parties relationship with one another.

I would like to see Rudd without being hamstrung by the ALP's back room. He is one of the most effective bureaucrats in recent political history and if in a system with truly like minded individuals capable of enacting proper policy reform.

To say he is out to make a name for himself is false and has been one of the great myths purported by loud mouth stooges like Hadley and Jones. If Rudd really wanted to make a name for himself he would have taken the route offered early in his career which would have all but guaranteed him a high ranking position within the UN's offices. Their is a far greater mouthpiece and place in the history books for leaders within the UN than there is in the trivial doddle of Aus. politics

The amount of policy that Rudd and Turnbull agree upon is far greater than either will find within their own party. The remainder of policy they are smart and reasonable enough men to find common ground and move forward in the best interest of the country

I don't necessarily dislike Rudd but think he tried to do too much himself and burnt himself out in the end but still think Cosello and Turnbull are a far better combination than Rudd and Turnbull and we know this will never happen either

 

[system]

The sad truth is exactly that. The best combinations of politicians rarely, if ever come together

 

[happy_tiger]

The sad truth is exactly that. The best combinations of politicians rarely, if ever come together

Well our current two leaders (Gillard and Swan) could be lovers but it wouldn't help
Hang on scratch that picture from your mind It's not good . 😱pen_mouth: