Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Yossarian]

That's because the standard of living and wages are high… These things are relative.

Tell me how you expect a 18-20 to even start working out how they can get a loan for a house in this day and age without parents having to fo guarantor ??

Too much greed from everyone in this country

Every boss wants double digit sales increases and double digit EBITDA Yoss and the only way they can achieve that is by continually robbing the customers with inferior products and higher prices

It's not the government's fault that housing prices are so high. Interest rates are very low. In fact all of these issues have been around for some time.

I really think relative to what's going on OS people don't have too much to complain about in Australia. Interest rates are low, inflation is low, the dollar is above parity, growth is good.

Unless you are earning 70-80k a year our youth have lots to complain about Yoss . Even finding rental accomodation is hard , thats if they will even rent it out to you

The youth can't even afford to live in Gladstone Yoss

Rental prices are ridiculous seeing what services are available The Govt and LNG have promised everything to help but nothing so far

That is the problem with Labour Lets get the work no matter what (environmental ,infrastructure,services) and screw the local communities that are affected who will be their for the long haul
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Greed ,Greed Greed

As Winnipeg says below this is hardly the fed govt's fault. Rents are expensive but you can rent around my local area for $200\. No idea what things are like in Gladstone but then again not sure what you want Gillard to do about a lack of rental properties.

I don't deny some do it a little tough but I do think overall we have it pretty good in this country

 

[stryker]

Have you ever lived OS Yoss?

 

[cktiger]

Wouldn't be renting anything less than a carspace close to Sydney for $200 a week :laughing:

 

[Chadman_s_Ghost]

The real driver of potential increased prices due to the Carbon Tax will be transport companies. They've already been identified as an industry that will get slugged the direct Carbon Tax, but they also incur the increased petrol price as well.

petrol is not subject to the carbon tax

I concede the point, somewhat- Carbon Tax won't apply to trucking companies..yet. However-

"On 1 July 2014, the effective fuel tax paid by trucking operators will increase 6.858 cents per litre, matching the planned 2014-15 carbon price of $25.40\. This is expected to cost the industry and its customers $510 million in 2014-15 alone.

The industry’s effective fuel tax will then vary every six months as Australia’s carbon price changes."

http://completeshipping.com.au/news/road-transport-industry-pleased-with-exemption-from-carbon-tax

Convenient that the guarenteed date for carbon tax to effect transport companies will come 6 months after the cut-off date for the next Federal Election.

There is no way that this carbon price hike on transport won't be passed on. Also interesting to note is that the Carbon price is currently $23 a tonne, right? And in 2014-15, it is planned to be $25.40\. Going up. And then the price of Carbon Tax becomes variable- ask yourself this- when did a government REDUCE a tax?

And yet, the world's biggest polluters, China, pay $1.60 a tonne.

Anyone ever ask what the RESULT of a Carbon tax will be? The whole aim of the Carbon tax is to reduce global warming, right?

The expected impact of our carbon reduction over 20 years is projected in a reduction of the temperature of 0.04 degrees.

And from what I understand- that figure can't incorporate the effects of expected increases in pollution from China who has a manufacturing industry that is growing all the time.

 

[stryker]

Anyone ever ask what the RESULT of a Carbon tax will be? The whole aim of the Carbon tax is to reduce global warming, right? The expected impact of our carbon reduction over 20 years is projected in a reduction of the temperature of 0.04 degrees. And from what I understand- that figure can't incorporate the effects of expected increases in pollution from China who has a manufacturing industry that is growing all the time.

All good points that are never answered Chadman.

I see no reason whatsoever to believe that this tax will achieve anything at all. Sure we will waste hundresd of millions on ridiculous renewable energy programme trials and everyone will sit back, patting each other on the back and say 'we did our part'.

Sorry…not everyone will be. Just those with their heads rammed up their sphincters. This whole 'climate change' movement is sickening.

 

[Winnipeg]

I concede the point, somewhat- Carbon Tax won't apply to trucking companies..yet. However-

"On 1 July 2014, the effective fuel tax paid by trucking operators will increase 6.858 cents per litre, matching the planned 2014-15 carbon price of $25.40\. This is expected to cost the industry and its customers $510 million in 2014-15 alone.

The industry’s effective fuel tax will then vary every six months as Australia’s carbon price changes."

http://completeshipping.com.au/news/road-transport-industry-pleased-with-exemption-from-carbon-tax

Convenient that the guarenteed date for carbon tax to effect transport companies will come 6 months after the cut-off date for the next Federal Election.

the price of oil is only going to go up long term, so the industry would do well to look at improving their efficiency anyway. That's what it says they are doing in the article.
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There is no way that this carbon price hike on transport won't be passed on. Also interesting to note is that the Carbon price is currently $23 a tonne, right? And in 2014-15, it is planned to be $25.40\. Going up. And then the price of Carbon Tax becomes variable- ask yourself this- when did a government REDUCE a tax?

even with the price going up, if companies are looking at ways to reduce their energy usage, they'll be able to avoid paying the cost and avoid passing it on to their consumers. If their competitors keep going with the status quo then they'll be at a disadvantage.

When the price becomes variable, it isn't the government who decides where it will be set, the market for trading in carbon credits will decide the price (gee how socialist). most people are predicting the price will fall, though there is a floor price of $15 a tonne
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And yet, the world's biggest polluters, China, pay $1.60 a tonne.

how does the average wage in China compare to ours? Regardless China already have massive renewable energy projects in the pipeline.
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http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/261083/20111205/china-leads-global-investments-renewable-energy.htm
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'The world's largest consumer of energy, China, is poised to spend $473.1 billion on clean energy investments in the next five years'

 

[Winnipeg]

Anyone ever ask what the RESULT of a Carbon tax will be? The whole aim of the Carbon tax is to reduce global warming, right? The expected impact of our carbon reduction over 20 years is projected in a reduction of the temperature of 0.04 degrees. And from what I understand- that figure can't incorporate the effects of expected increases in pollution from China who has a manufacturing industry that is growing all the time.

All good points that are never answered Chadman.

I see no reason whatsoever to believe that this tax will achieve anything at all. Sure we will waste hundresd of millions on ridiculous renewable energy programme trials and everyone will sit back, patting each other on the back and say 'we did our part'.

Sorry…not everyone will be. Just those with their heads rammed up their sphincters. This whole 'climate change' movement is sickening.

there's no way of putting a number on what the carbon tax will do to global temperatures, but that's not the point. The point is to initiate a change to low emissions economy. If anything the emissions targets we've set (note that both major parties have a target to reduce emissions by 5% by 2020)… these targets are way below what scientists think is needed to avoid climate change altogether.

If you think renewable energy is a waste of time then that's up to you, but we will need to transition to renewable energy at some point (seeing as fossil fuels are a finite resource), and the earlier the transition begins, the less painful it will be.

Similarly if you don't believe climate change is a problem, that's up to you, but just know that you're in the minority. Even Tony Abbott disagrees with you (or at least he is feigning concern for the environment)

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

Similarly if you don't believe climate change is a problem, that's up to you, but just know that you're in the minority. Even Tony Abbott disagrees with you (or at least he is feigning concern for the environment)

This is something that has me scratching my head. Mr Abbott initially disagreed with an ETS, saying that if you want to reduce emissions a Tax aould be most effective. Then the Tax was proposed and he disagreed with that saying "the science isn't settled" and it is silly to engage in such a move until you can be sure it will actually achieve anything. Fair enough.

After all that the LNP release their direct Action plan to offer $10b of incentives to "big polluters" to reduce their emissions over 4 years _(edit: $8.4b in 7 years according to the latest forward estimates)._ Firstly, that money will come from tax payers with no new revenue being formed. Secondly, why spend so much of the public purse on something you don't believe in?

It must be really hard for the LNP rusted-ons to figure out what they believe in week to week.

 

[Yossarian]

Have you ever lived OS Yoss?

Yeah I've lived in the US.

 

[Yossarian]

An excellent article by Ross Gittins which sums up my thoughts on the matter

http://www.smh.com.au/business/prejudices-rule-when-judging-labor-20120715-224cu.html

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

An excellent article by Ross Gittins which sums up my thoughts on the matter

http://www.smh.com.au/business/prejudices-rule-when-judging-labor-20120715-224cu.html

Excellent indeed. Agree entirely with the comment about news organisations adopting _"the Fox News business model of telling a section of the potential audience what it wants to hear, not what it needs to know."_

Perfectly said.

 

[stryker]

And why do you think that is the case?

Could it be due to prominant journos being threatened and sacked due to their digging on this AWU rort that Gillard seems to be up to her nostrils in?
Could the same be reasoned with similar scenarios involving the HSU?
Could it be due to Labor's failed management of policy?
Could it be due to Labor's 180 degree spins regarding what they stand for in their continued attempts to cling to power by cow towelling to the Greens every whim?
Could it be due to Gillards repeated lies (which she is called out on almost weekly)?
Could it be because the party is dominated and run by greedy yet ineffective unions?

Labor are a joke. They are a party consisting of crooks, union officials (bigger crooks), idealists and completely deluded liars. Record spending, record debt, record boat arrivals…unfinished projects all over the country. As soon as they are kicked out, I would like to see a financial audit on what the hell they have spent all our money on.

I also want to know why this country has become such a pussy PC orientated system of blame. I want my country back...the one I served for ...not this corrupt current one lead by this husk of a leadership group who are nothing more than an utterly rotten, incompetent, deceitful, minority, socialist government.

The only thing that worries me about Australia's future is that Labor will be so thoroughly demolished at the next elections that it will take at least a decade for them to recover....which will mean Liberals will regain absolute power which could lead to a significant drop in democracy as there will not be an effective opposition. We need a complete clean out of the Labor ranks. We need new blood who have worked for a living and think of politics as a way to contribute to the growth of this land...not just a right of passage.

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

And why do you think that is the case?

Because fear and bad news sells papers

 

[stryker]

And why do you think that is the case?

Because fear and bad news sells papers

As true as this is, they have supplied the ammo in bucket loads.

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

And why do you think that is the case?

Because fear and bad news sells papers

As true as this is, they have supplied the ammo in bucket loads.

OK Stryker. Understand you now.
I don't talk politics with barrackers. Cheers.

 

[stryker]

Get over yourself Glen. Dont be a pussy. If you have something to say, say it.

 

[hammertime]

Get over yourself Glen. Dont be a pussy. If you have something to say, say it.

Don't worry Stryker, typical Laborite dodging any real argument. They have presided over a blunder in nearly every policy that they have implemented.

If some people are so rusted on to a party this inept, you aren't going to be able to reason with them with logic.

 

[hammertime]

An excellent article by Ross Gittins which sums up my thoughts on the matter

http://www.smh.com.au/business/prejudices-rule-when-judging-labor-20120715-224cu.html

Mate, I think Ross misses the point. I have no qualms about the Economic thought that went into their policy. They had

- Short term cash (Retail cash handouts)
- Medium Term (BER/Batts). Which was in all towns around Aus
- Long term (NBN)

BUT I for one, don't like money being wasted, little analysis undertaken (NBN/BER), given little future thought for such a massive spend (which Ross Gittens doesn't seem to possess) AND playing the Class Warfare card by means testing everything - including Environemental measures.

It damamges business and voter confidence.

The government is doing what is best for them, not the people.

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

Get over yourself Glen. Dont be a pussy. If you have something to say, say it.

I'm neither Labor nor Liberal. Nor a pussy.
I just don't talk politics with barrackers because they get upset, refuse to talk logic, and start name calling as you just have. I have better things to do with my time.
Now that I understand that is your platform I will leave you to it. All the best.

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

Get over yourself Glen. Dont be a pussy. If you have something to say, say it.

Don't worry Stryker, typical Laborite dodging any real argument. They have presided over a blunder in nearly every policy that they have implemented.

If some people are so rusted on to a party this inept, you aren't going to be able to reason with them with logic.

I'm not rusted on to anyone Hammertime and I refuse to talk politics with people who are. It's a waste of my time.
Your last sentence is exactly right and applies to both sides. That's why I will stay out of debating with Stryker and now you also. Cheers.