Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[pHyR3]

Gotthard Base Tunnel: 57km of high-speed rail under the Swiss Alps. Longest tunnel in the world. Cost - $10.3 Billion

Northwest Rail Link: 23km CityRail line connecting Rouse Hill to Epping. Cost - $8.3 Billion

well, First up labour cost.

2nd, in this case the government would have to buy all the property in the way i assume. Or offer compensation.

And lastly. It's the Australian government, it's obviously gonna be bloody expensive since it'll drag on for an extra 4 years more than planned.

 

[Flippedy]

Gotthard Base Tunnel: 57km of high-speed rail under the Swiss Alps. Longest tunnel in the world. Cost - $10.3 Billion

Northwest Rail Link: 23km CityRail line connecting Rouse Hill to Epping. Cost - $8.3 Billion

well, First up labour cost.

2nd, in this case the government would have to buy all the property in the way i assume. Or offer compensation.

And lastly. It's the Australian government, it's obviously gonna be bloody expensive since it'll drag on for an extra 4 years more than planned.

Isn't the Northwest Rail Link a state govt project? That would be the Libs.

 

[stryker]

I read it Flip and some of the points are rational. However the majority is typical ABC dribble to be honest.
She is hated and the attacks on her are fairly disgraceful…however...Julia has a lot to do with the publics perception of her. I cant quite put my finger on the base problem with her but I'll try because she certainly is a very grating individual.

Her history is not good but lets forget that for the moment. She is a tough person and I applaud that however she is completely ruthless and will stop at nothing to get what she wants. She was fully complicit with the backroom manourvering to sack a PM who was voted in on a majority whilst holding his hand and telling him everything would be OK. I am no Rudd apologist either. I think he is the fakest PM of my lifetime and a shocking leader...I hate him far more than Gillard but I respect the position of PM and think he should have had his day in court so to speak with the Australian voting public - not be knifed and embarrassed as he was. This is where I started noticing that people were genuinely angry with her part in the whole matter. She has since lied and lied and lied about it. She was a senior minister in the Rudd government and has removed blame from herself for her part in the terrible rorts caused by both the BER and Pink Batts. She made up blatant lies about asylum policies stating that deals had been done when our counterparts had not even met with her. She backflipped on a huge promise that got her elected and then lied about having lied prior to the election. Her web is so intricate and cross threaded that she is constantly being tripped up on it. She is a thoroughly distrustful politician and she did that to herself. Whenever she holds a news conference or interview, the general reaction of the public is to take what she is saying, flip it 180 degrees and somewhere in that is the real truth. You hear normal, hardworking people say it every single day. Once again, this is a persona that she has caused. People do not believe her and it is almost to the point that if she told us the sky was blue, you would stick your head out the window just to be sure. That is a terrible attribute for our country's leader to possess and quite embarrassing. She is not respected because voters feel they can not trust her and that is aweful for the nation as some of the things she is saying and the policies being drawn up would be terrific for us but they are not recognised as truly great work or leadership because she has damaged her own reputation to the point that even if she was telling the 100% truth, most are sceptical.

The thing that really upsets me about her though is the condescending way she talks to us...like we are all a bunch of neanderthals who couldnt care less. She has achieved this with some sucess during her term but has played this to death now by treating the women of Australia like they are downtrodden house wives that are nothing but servants to their male 'masters'. This is just utter crap. Her big breakout speech in parliament was vomit inducing where she stood and ranted about how Abbott was a misogynist...even though he is the only male member of his family and has senior female pollies in his close group. It was a planned warcry to stir the female voters into a frenzy and get them all onside for the upcoming election. Abbott is a wanker....he is backward thinking and I hate his churchie values...but he is no woman hater and she has portrayed him as such for months and months now and the whole show is orchastrated and completely transparent. Todays woman is not tied to the kitchen sink with two rugrats scraming at her whilst her 'lazy' husband demands she does everything and treats her as second class. Today's woman is a smart, well read, highly educated, go getter who takes on the dual roles of being a professional during the day and a mother or partner after hours. She is not an idiot who can be so easily brainwashed by a PM playing the victim card and can see through the retoric. She is no fool and is embarrassed by a leader who carries on like she is stuck in the 50's with a life of servitude ahead of her. Last week Gillard basically said 'if you vote against me, we will have men running this country again'. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Is she seriously saying that she has done such an outstanding job that a change of government will set women's rights back decades? No one is stupid enough to fall for that garbage. I know some fairly strong women, bordering on the atypical 'feminnazis' who are appalled by her lack of judgement on this matter. They are no slouches in an argument and stick up for themselves always but when they hear her screaming about misogonystic behaviour or even worse breaking into tears in parliament they call it for what it is....a very carefully planned and executed strategy to hoodwink female voters, to manipulate them into an 'us and them' scenario to get her re-elected through 'girl power'. It is pathetic, it is embarrassing and has F all to do with leading and running this country.

I think thats the crux of my problems with her. She spends more time digging dirt and gutter-sniping then she does actually doing her job. She and her remaining supporters can blame talkback and the media till the cows come home. They have played their part no doubt and are vicious, way over the top and frequently misleading...however she has brought most of this upon herself with her conniving ways, her backstabbing manouverings, her lies and her divisive nature. She represents everything we hate about politicians and politics in general.

It didnt have to be this way, she had the experience and the backing to really make her mark on the political landscape. She had the tough hide to withstand crticism and the sharp mind to retaliate. She had some good ideas to use as a platform to build her legacy. She went away from all of this to return to her roots and display to us the voting public what a dirty, grubby politician really is. I dont think her gender is the reason for this one bit. She is a career politician and with her background....well a leopard just can not change its spots. Rather than debate her opponents on the policy failings or answer questions as to why every government project since 2007 seems to blow out on costings, resources and time schedules she goes into attack mode and wastes the whole day accusing people of acts that in my mind they have shown very little signs of ever doing. She then instructs her like minded dogs like Shorten to hit the airwaves and regurgitate the same non sense.

I do not hate her...but I do not respect her and certainly do not trust her with my money. I give her government a fair bit and they just piss it up against the wall on most days. I do feel for the people of Australia though who were anxious to vote in our first ever female PM, were then robbed of that chance - having that fundamental right taken away from them by backroom snivelling behaviour by gutless cowards and were forced as a result to endure Julia Gillard. Some things can never be undone.......

 

[Winnipeg]

lets be honest, most of the 'Gillard is deceitful' comes from the misquoting of the following sentence

“There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead, but lets be absolutely clear. I am determined to price carbon”.’

http://fairmediaalliance.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/there-will-be-no-carbon-tax-under-a-government-i-lead-but-lets-be-absolutely-clear-i-am-determined-to-price-carbon/

The conservative media have replayed half of that quote probably 100,000 times. Here is another article from before the election in which she clearly says she is prepared to put a price on carbon

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

On the other hand, Gillard should definitely have done a better job of defending her situation. The Greens vote surged and she found herself having to form an alliance, that's the political reality. The reality is also that it is a good policy, it is cutting emissions and doing so in a far cheaper way than the Coalition's policy. Why isn't Abbott viewed as deceitful for his constant hyperbole on how pricing carbon would ruin the economy? How does he get away with saying 'the economy is flatlining' when it is actually at trend growth?

I know nobody here is particularly an Abbott fan but you're still likely to vote Coalition (as are a hell of a lot of people, if polls are to be believed), the principle reason given being that Gillard is dishonest, but surely the alternate PM should be judged under the same criteria?

I know politicians are going to be judged on everything they say but sometimes in the heat of discussion you go a little bit further than you would if it was an absolutely calm, considered, prepared, scripted remark. The statements that need to be taken absolutely as gospel truth are those carefully prepared scripted remarks.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/dont-believe-everything-i-say-tony-abbott/story-e6frfkvr-1225867979082
\

Misleading the ABC is not quite the same as misleading the Parliament as a political crime

http://www.phonytonyabbott.com/lies-and-deceptions/tony-abbott-lied-abcs-four-corners-about-funding-legal-costs-terry-sharples

 

[Saturnalia]

I got a letter in the mail "from Tony" asking me to rejoin the Liberal Party
lol
He's clearly not listening to the reason why I left.
I'm still voting for the Unmarried-Ranga-Lesbian-Athiest-Communist Female

Can we ask why you left the party Kul and if you would change your mind if Turnbull was in charge ??

I support investment in things such as the NBN (fiber to the node is fine in my books… let the consumer pay the final cost), Very Fast Rail and a price on Carbon.

Meanwhile, we'll all be paying for the 100,000 Refrigerator Sized Nodes that need 24/7 power and cooling,

And if I do decide I want to pay the final cost, I'll still be paying for the 100,000 nodes, including the one I'm no longer using,
If my neighbour 6 months later decides he wants fibre as well, they won't run it from the node, they'll splice the fibre they ran to my place, so guess what? $5000 for me, $1200 for him.

I genuinely cannot fathom the mind that looks at at Abbots plan and thinks "That's the way to do it".

It's the equivalent of saying,

Lets build a high speed rail system from Sydney to Melbourne, but to save 15% of the build cost, the train will terminate at Wollongong and you can bus the rest of the way there, and if you do want to have your rail network come near your home, then the you can pay for the final part.

Also the side benefit of destroying Telstra's monopoly on telecommunications in Australia will only be a win for the australian public,

 

[Kul]

I wasn't aware of those factors, thanks Sataris

I assumed that Fiber to the Node meant that the fiber cable would run to the end of your street, then you would just have to pay the $x amount to run the fiber to your house. Yep, it would have involved you forking out cash to "install" fiber to your house but it meant that the final stage was paid by the end consumer… kinda like you paid installation cost for hooking your house up to Foxtel.

 

[Kul]

Research: :smiley:

FTTN/FTTLA (fiber-to-the-node, -neighborhood, or -last-amplifier): Fiber is terminated in a street cabinet, possibly miles away from the customer premises, with the final connections being copper. FTTN is often an interim step toward full FTTH and is typically used to deliver advanced triple-play telecommunications services.
FTTC/FTTK (fiber-to-the-curb/kerb, -closet, or -cabinet): This is very similar to FTTN, but the street cabinet or pole is closer to the user's premises, typically within 1,000 feet (300 m), within range for high-bandwidth copper technologies such as wired ethernet or IEEE 1901 power line networking and wireless wi-fi technology. FTTC is occasionally ambiguously called FTTP (fiber-to-the-pole), leading to confusion with the distinct fiber-to-the-premises system.
FTTB (fiber-to-the-building, -business, or -basement): Fiber reaches the boundary of the building, such as the basement in a multi-dwelling unit, with the final connection to the individual living space being made via alternative means, similar to the curb or pole technologies.
FTTH (fiber-to-the-home): Fiber reaches the boundary of the living space, such as a box on the outside wall of a home. Passive optical networks and point-to-point ethernet are architectures that deliver triple-play services over FTTH networks directly from an operator's central office.[1][2]
FTTP (fiber-to-the-premises): This term is used either as a blanket term for both FTTH and FTTB, or where the fiber network includes both homes and small businesses.
FTTD (fiber-to-the-desktop): Fiber connection is installed from the main computer room to a terminal or fiber media converter near the user's desk.

FTTC to keep costs down? Let the consumer pay for the final 300m of fiber

 

[Saturnalia]

Research: :smiley:

FTTN/FTTLA (fiber-to-the-node, -neighborhood, or -last-amplifier): Fiber is terminated in a street cabinet, possibly miles away from the customer premises, with the final connections being copper. FTTN is often an interim step toward full FTTH and is typically used to deliver advanced triple-play telecommunications services.
FTTC/FTTK (fiber-to-the-curb/kerb, -closet, or -cabinet): This is very similar to FTTN, but the street cabinet or pole is closer to the user's premises, typically within 1,000 feet (300 m), within range for high-bandwidth copper technologies such as wired ethernet or IEEE 1901 power line networking and wireless wi-fi technology. FTTC is occasionally ambiguously called FTTP (fiber-to-the-pole), leading to confusion with the distinct fiber-to-the-premises system.
FTTB (fiber-to-the-building, -business, or -basement): Fiber reaches the boundary of the building, such as the basement in a multi-dwelling unit, with the final connection to the individual living space being made via alternative means, similar to the curb or pole technologies.
FTTH (fiber-to-the-home): Fiber reaches the boundary of the living space, such as a box on the outside wall of a home. Passive optical networks and point-to-point ethernet are architectures that deliver triple-play services over FTTH networks directly from an operator's central office.[1][2]
FTTP (fiber-to-the-premises): This term is used either as a blanket term for both FTTH and FTTB, or where the fiber network includes both homes and small businesses.
FTTD (fiber-to-the-desktop): Fiber connection is installed from the main computer room to a terminal or fiber media converter near the user's desk.

FTTC to keep costs down? Let the consumer pay for the final 300m of fiber

Costs?

FTTN/FTTC is $800M cheaper than FTTP (assuming Turnbull can get Telstra to sell them the copper)

Which he won't be able to do since NBNCO aren't using telstra's copper at all, so NBNCo is only paying for the pits and ducts and access.

Once Telstra's copper is required, I don't see them handing it over for nothing, probably looking at 10-12Bn for the copper alone.

so Turnbull's pie in the sky, 100,000 Nodes with $0/year maintenance with Copper that Telstra will give me for free

Don't believe it, will end up around $40-$50Bn under Abbot Turnbull

And then we'll do FTTP anyway

 

[Saturnalia]

Just realized,

We're also not doing FTTC, unless Malcom has backflipped.and even in that case, more cabinets, more maintenance.

Won't be too bad though, unless one of the nodes is infront of your house.


The Liberals would be easier to take seriously if they hadn't gone from

"Destroy the NBN" to "We're commited to providing Australian families with .. blah blah blah"

The sad part is it won't actually make anyones internet any faster

 

[Black_n_White]

Seriously, every building in Sydney has cat3 tie cables from MDF to IDF…. same as every house serviced by cat3 telecommunications cables if you are copper. Your speed is limited by the weakest link.

This fibre debate is along the lines of underground power... yes we will need large cabinets to handle the services to larger zones, but as the service is delegated to smaller and more specific areas within the larger zones these pillars will be all but un-noticable. If I remember next time I am involved I will get pics of fibre hubs within the Sydney CBD. People are blowing this way out of proportion.

 

[stryker]

So 2 of the independants responsible for this current parliament have woken up to themselves and fallen on their swords so to speak prior to the upcoming election. For 3 years we have heard Oakshot and Windsor carry on but no more…they have both pulled out of the race for re-election.

Could there be more to follow?

 

[Furious1]

So 2 of the independants responsible for this current parliament have woken up to themselves and fallen on their swords so to speak prior to the upcoming election. For 3 years we have heard Oakshot and Windsor carry on but no more…they have both pulled out of the race for re-election.

Could there be more to follow?

Gutless, thats the only way to describe them both. If they were so confident in how they(particularly Oakshot) have voted and behaved over the last few years, then have the guts to front up to the constituents to be judged!!! All they have done is rob the voters of a chance to give them a big piss off!!

 

[Tiger_Watto]

While I have been frustrated with these 2 for siding with Labor, both these boys have ensured their Electorates have received plenty of funding throughout this circus of a government.

I was reading the other day Oakshot got over $1.4B in funding. That is a mighty effort and something the people of his electorate should be proud of.

Does this spell the end of any chance of an early election?

 

[stryker]

Maybe not Watto…If Rudd does perform and win his coup for the leadership, Windsor has stated numerous times that he will vote no confidence and we will head to an early election.

 

[stryker]

So the inevitable has happened. Rudd has taken back the leadership apparently. These tools are the worst collection of dipsh#ts ever to garce parliament. Absolute embarrassment.

 

[Flippedy]

:nerd: Oh God! He's back! :nerd: Lucky us :unamused: Hope it's the only Queensland victory tonight.

 

[Newtown]

I'm glad that Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard don't play together for Wests Tigers. Talk about a team of champion players versus a champion team.

 

[Newtown]

While I have been frustrated with these 2 for siding with Labor, both these boys have ensured their Electorates have received plenty of funding throughout this circus of a government.

I was reading the other day Oakshot got over $1.4B in funding. That is a mighty effort and something the people of his electorate should be proud of.

Does this spell the end of any chance of an early election?

I that it is quite likely that there will be an early election.

 

[tig_prmz]

"whoever wins will be the labor leader, whoever loses retires from politics"

she makes it sound like a playground game of footy.

is this politics or a school playground?? hope she never shows her face on tv again

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Lol he cost them again