Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Yossarian]

@hammertime Cheers Hammer. I know we're polar opposites politically but I appreciate your interest in actually debating ideas rather than resorting to base fears.

 

[watersider]

At the end of the day, I really think this was about the Silent Majority having an absolute gut full of the OTT lefty - listen to me I’m on twitter and I am right about everything- denizens of social media who think they have right to belittle everyone who doesn’t drop into line.

Hi there Dazza,

I think this 'silent majority' thing is an absolute myth. You've got Ray Hadley, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Fox News, Daily Telegraph, The Liberal Party, The National Party, One Nation Party, Clive Palmer (does he count?) all ranting about this silent majority stuff. These people are shouty and they have a platform and they're backed by big money and they've been in government and they just won government again. Who is this 'silent' majority?

The silent majority are the nurses, police force, childcare workers, labourers etc who are not well represented by this government and who have no platform to speak. We hear enough from the 'silent' majority. And that phrase is used by conservatives as some sort of claim to marginalisation in the political debate which absolutely isn't matched by reality.

I respect your right to an opinion, I like policy discussion. I just don't like using these nonsense generalisations. It's as bad as the rubbish slogans of the GetUp people (who are probably some covert right wing movement designed to make the left look stupid).

I would have hoped for better from the Liberal party this election. Democracy has suffered because they're not prepared to attempt to explain their platform. Like both Abbott and Turnbull before him, Morrison will announce his policies in his budget next year, not attempt to defend them in an election (as Shorten did). Whatever side of politics you're on, we should ask for more from our political parties and I'm disappointed the Liberals have been rewarded. Labor's a pragmatic party, and Shorten is unispiring, but they attempted an honest approach to their ideas, and they were punished for it. I'm sick of empty rhetoric politics, I'm sick of big American speeches. Whatever you say about them, you can't say Labor weren't direct and honest (In victory, you haven't heard the Liberals even claim that). Can we say the same about the Liberals? Maybe you think so, I look only at their form over the last 6 years as a guide.

I'm not on social media, I've used Uber twice, I like talking to liberal party people and I don't view what you're saying as being anything like Hitler. Let's stop reducing the opposition to silly generalisations, and start actually discussing what is best for the country. Whatever voice you represent, it certainly isn't a silent one.

I don't agree this is the best country in the world, I don't think it has to be. I don't know why we even need to make such claims.

The sun will rise tomorrow, but I don't think politics and our country is bettered by this result.

Labor deserved to lose power 6 years ago, The coalition deserved to get beat in this election. In my opinion, the reason they didn't get beat is because labor was too honest with the people. I don't think it's a positive that a party's transparency is used against them. I don't think avoiding discussion of policies is a positive. And I don't think Coalition have been good economically or helped ease the cost of living for working Australians. So I don't think they've even succeeded in what is their supposed platform.

Sorry to rant. I'm despondent.

 

[dazza65]

@watersider all good as I said entitled to your opinion. But you lost me with
“
GetUp people (who are probably some covert right wing movement designed to make the left look stupid).” You do realise Shorten was an inaugural board member of GetUp and if you have a look at their current makeup.......

Anyway, cheers

 

[watersider]

@watersider all good as I said entitled to your opinion. But you lost me with
“
GetUp people (who are probably some covert right wing movement designed to make the left look stupid).” You do realise Shorten was an inaugural board member of GetUp and if you have a look at their current makeup.......

Anyway, cheers

Great, You've added to my suspected right wing conspiracy theory. The right somehow installed a puppet into the union movement who worked dodgy deals that worked against workers, he was then deployed against Kevin Rudd and Julia gillard's governments and he's been working for the last six years to keep the coalition in government. No wonder he did so badly. A bit like what the Left did in getting Turnbull on the liberal side. It actually stacks up, but of course I'm joking.

I don't think Shorten is a messiah, and I don't think GetUp is an effective organisation. I think Labor people are involved in lots of stupid movements and I think they make many bad decisions and their slogans are dumb. I just don't like seeing slogans on either side infecting political discussions. That's why i don't like the silent majority stuff.

Whatever Shorten has done in the past, It doesn't change the policy platform they worked on and submitted to the people, which I feel was done in a way that was honest and reasoned. Do you doubt what they were going to do? I fear such approaches aren't going to be attempted in future. And I don't know what the Liberals plan to do in government on energy, an issue that is impacting cost of living and the broader economy.

I thought assisting childcare workers and helping pensioners with their teeth were positive efforts as part of a policy platform that also would have created a more coherent approach to energy and was also clear about what benefits would also be taken away to pay for their policies.

 

[hammertime]

@hammertime Cheers Hammer. I know we're polar opposites politically but I appreciate your interest in actually debating ideas rather than resorting to base fears.

Of course mate. Nothing worse than the one-line catch phase arguments. Nothing gets me more irritated than someone using the phrase 'wake-up' or debasing an argument to if it's a tax or not.

I used to work on the budget under Howard and Costello. Say what you like about their policy, but I saw first hand how good their execution was and why they thought the way they did. Some of their measures were very forward thinking and clever, without the public necessarily knowing. My respect for the liberals grew off of that.

What we have today is a shambles of those days. I really believe shorten tried to bring back some 'meat' to this election and I'm saddened that he got punished for it. We've taken a hit to our democracy this week.

I'm worried about my kids and the future of all of us. It scares me how people dismiss climate change. It's almost like the anti-vax movement or the flat earthers, but with more people.

I live in HK now and even if you don't believe in global warming, how about the fact were breathing more rubbish into our lungs or have our cars still rely on black stuff from deep underground and shipped from far away places.

Shorten was a character with little likeability, but geez he had some balls to take everything on at once. He had a lot more substance than the liberals.

I just hope with Abbott out of the picture, the far right of the liberal party will take a hit and scomo can do some good.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

@diedpretty sky news sell subscriptions and are entitled to speak a certain point of view the abc is tax payer funded and it is not impartial

 

[Kev]

@diedpretty dream?
The vast majority couldnt care less.

 

[diedpretty]

@diedpretty dream?
The vast majority couldnt care less.

The LNP certainly couldn't care less - I was promised a world class internet and then these bumbling fools destroyed it - spin it anyway you want but Murdoch didn't want it and the LNP bowed to his wishes. And how do you know the vast majority couldn't care less - your all mouth and no substance.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Oh well, c'est la vie. Australians on the whole are politically apathetic and are easily led, but its a democracy and we're far from corrupt at the ballot box so you have to accept the result.

Let's see if Scotty delivers on that projected surplus next year now, the bonus of offering little during the election means he has little to deliver on rather than the mountain of promises the ALP made (of which I admired and voted for, but a big ask at the end of the day to bring into reality.)

I think it was a mix of the ALP dreaming too big and having a very unpopular leader trying to sell it.

 

[Snake]

Scomo has a majority government... Hail Scomo!

 

[hugh1954]

@Jedi_Tiger
Exactly right , the ABC is a public paid organisation and it needs a big clean out or a more balanced coverage, I hope Scomo punishes them with cutbacks if they refuse to represent the entire population

 

[Tim Sheens]

The honest truth is that while the boomers are around, policy will always lean towards their self serving ways.
I don’t agree that Bill didn’t sell his policies well enough. He vallently tried to take the biggest demographic on, for the first time in my memory, and lost.

Nailed it Hammer, though I think that a lot of us born up to, say the end of the Vietnam war are also of a similar cloth, with greed seemingly being at the forefront. Of course not all, but enough that generalisation is fair.

I find it really strange that this has been the outcome, particularly as we were overwhelmingly brought up in a Christian environment that was all about community and caring for others. What the hell happened to so many of these kids that used to share everthing.

In another post you spoke of talking about pollution rather than coining the issue as climate change or it's predecessor, global warming. To extend on your black liquid running our vehicles, another derivative being plastic, which is everywhere, even as a lining inside aluminum cans and many still line their garbage bins with them.

From large families putting out a half filled 50 odd litre bin, we here have transformed into households with often overflowing multiple ones up to 240 litres. Many kids see nearly all their food and drink packaged in plastic, let alone the toys and live amongst a myriad of chemicals.

Marry this with driving past piles of glue and pulp furniture along these streets, and if at night, to now have hardly any insects on our windscreens, it shows just how much damage we are doing to our planet.

 

[weststigers]

@hugh1954 It's interesting mate. I've heard a lot of old Labor supporters say the same thing...the push to the hard left didn't sit well with their core group of voters, because they were talking about issues that weren't relevant to these people.

As has happened all over the world, people aren't buying the hard left agenda.

Albanese seems to be more moderate, so I hope he becomes leader of the Labor party. I'm a Libs voter, but we need a real and capable alternative in this country that if voted in, won't wreck the place.

I was one who actually read both parties policies on their websites and while not all policies on the Labor side were bad, Shorten would have been a disaster for this country both culturally and economically (my opinion of course).

PS - believe it or not, both parties had many policies that were similar or the same...

 

[balmain boy]

A very sad outcome. Rich people will always vote to keep their money, as individuals and as companies. Sadly its the uneducated bogan vote which is so often the swing factor. People unable to come to their own conclusions and lap up whatever they're told - which is where Murdoch always gets what he wants. The fact that Palmer also won, and monsters like Dutton and Christenson actually increased in popularity shows how vulgar and backwards many parts of this country are.

When greed, hate and inequality win out over a brighter future for the country and it's people it's a time of mourning. A party with a bogan bully as it's leader, with no policies and an awful recent track record in managing the economy.

This really is going to be a crap few years.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

@Balmain_Boy they will have to deliver. They'll have had 9 years by then to do something and if nothing has improved since they took government in 2013 they will get rolled.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

@Balmain_Boy

Palmer won? I thought he got rolled?

 

[balmain boy]

@Spud_Murphy His party took votes away from Labor (as did One Nation) and he gave his prefernces to Libs. He got the outcome he desired. A liberal government favoring industry over the environment, which will make his company billions. Worth the small outlay.

He never wanted to be forced to attend parliament again - that's a nuisance which would interrupt his sleeping and eating schedule.

 

[Snake]

@Cultured_Bogan They are delivering the stock market through the roof .. happy days !

 

[happy_tiger]

If the local candidate hadn't been such a knob I may have voted ALP

I wonder if Dutton will come under question

Don't know if it made the southern press but people were handing out fake greens how to vote forms that had Dutton 2nd in regards to preferences

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

@Cultured_Bogan They are delivering the stock market through the roof .. happy days !

Because that's all that matters, right?