Positional roles: share the finer points

[Mccarry]

I am interested in learning about some of the finer points about some key positions. My recent addiction to this forum and the subsequent consumption of thread after thread has improved my appreciation of roles. I am sure there is fantastic knowledge worth sharing. Our team is at the stage where so many of our players are still developing. It would be great to know the finer things to watch for as I cheer from my lounge room or members seats.

I propose 4 initial topics. Suggest you quote the topic in reply to keep it easy to follow. Add additional topics as you like

Lock vs second row
Hooker vs Half in respect of directing forwards
Fullback role especially the requirement to communicate in defensive structures
Edge defensive roles

Opinions / high level understanding welcome

 

[sheer64]

Potter may also be interested in this! LOL

 

[Tiger_Talk]

Great topic McCarry,

to start the ball rolling why don't we go with

1\. The fat men in the middle are supposed to make the hard yards for the pretty boys in the back line to shine! Clearly ours are not doing that hence the struggle.

 

[happy_tiger]

Well the fullback thing is pretty simple really

Your are looking at the attacking structure and where the attacking weapons are positioned

Looking at your own defensive structure

Making sure your defensive structuring is manning up on the attacking structure

Screaming your lungs out for 80 minutes to make sure that everyone remains focussed and name calling ( as in seven going left , ,setting up for a particular play, playing short side etc)

Lots of counting ,sounds simple but that is one of the biggest errors you can make as a fullback ,don't notice the opposition fullback has gone left or right ,both halves playing same side of the ruck

Probable just important as anything above ,your own positional play ,making sure you are in a position to cover any eventuality chip kick ,midfield bomb ,kick early in the count

Hope this helps

 

[Mccarry]

Great topic McCarry,

to start the ball rolling why don't we go with

1\. The fat men in the middle are supposed to make the hard yards for the pretty boys in the back line to shine! Clearly ours are not doing that hence the struggle.

Tiger Talk… You sound like a forward, and no I am not calling you fat.

 

[Mccarry]

Well the fullback thing is pretty simple really

Your are looking at the attacking structure and where the attacking weapons are positioned

Looking at your own defensive structure

Making sure your defensive structuring is manning up on the attacking structure

Screaming your lungs out for 80 minutes to make sure that everyone remains focussed and name calling ( as in seven going left , ,setting up for a particular play, playing short side etc)

Lots of counting ,sounds simple but that is one of the biggest errors you can make as a fullback ,don't notice the opposition fullback has gone left or right ,both halves playing same side of the ruck

Probable just important as anything above ,your own positional play ,making sure you are in a position to cover any eventuality chip kick ,midfield bomb ,kick early in the count

Hope this helps

Thanks Happy. Yes it helps. Does the role change as the set progresses? For example on the fourth and fifth the fullback drops back. From 30ms back it seems harder to expect good calls. Considering these two tackles are where the danger of the free runner, or overlap would be greatest. Is there an expectation that other players call the structure changes being seen in the opposition line?

In respect of the fullback role, I notice that the defence of a fullback is rarely talked about. Watching football growing up I believe it was a larger topic. Teddy has been amazing in defence and yet it hardly rates a mention. He may not have attacked to his potential, however his tackling defence has been outstanding. Any insight into the lower emphasis on defence?

 

[pattyferg]

As a personal who has played fullback in recent years (only 21).

The new and improved fullback doesn't just only play off the hip of the 5/8 is usually striking the weakness of the defenders. Whether it be inside balls on tired forwards or spreading it when your outside backs are carving up. He is basically the new 5/8 and they play two halfs either side of the ruck wearing 7 and 6.

With your lock vs second row, it's changed over the years a lot. Some teams play a ball playing second rower(Greg bird) or some play the new style of a big work horse (Merrin). It is mainly on preference on the team structure.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[underdog]

Teddy might hardly rate a mention amongst the pundits, but much like Blairs' hard work going unnoticed by the masses, Teddy's hard work, defensive positioning and great one on one tackling would be the praise of the locker room by Potter.

 

[851]

The new lock forward is a mobile prop,aka Merrin,he plugs the middle and tries to create up the centre,the old style cover defending lock is gone.
Secondrow nowdays are more like centres but bigger and defend one player in,Patterson and Sirronen could form a leathal backrow row with Blair at lock if used correctly..

 

[happy_tiger]

Well the fullback thing is pretty simple really

Your are looking at the attacking structure and where the attacking weapons are positioned

Looking at your own defensive structure

Making sure your defensive structuring is manning up on the attacking structure

Screaming your lungs out for 80 minutes to make sure that everyone remains focussed and name calling ( as in seven going left , ,setting up for a particular play, playing short side etc)

Lots of counting ,sounds simple but that is one of the biggest errors you can make as a fullback ,don't notice the opposition fullback has gone left or right ,both halves playing same side of the ruck

Probable just important as anything above ,your own positional play ,making sure you are in a position to cover any eventuality chip kick ,midfield bomb ,kick early in the count

Hope this helps

Thanks Happy. Yes it helps. Does the role change as the set progresses? For example on the fourth and fifth the fullback drops back. From 30ms back it seems harder to expect good calls. Considering these two tackles are where the danger of the free runner, or overlap would be greatest. Is there an expectation that other players call the structure changes being seen in the opposition line?

In respect of the fullback role, I notice that the defence of a fullback is rarely talked about. Watching football growing up I believe it was a larger topic. Teddy has been amazing in defence and yet it hardly rates a mention. He may not have attacked to his potential, however his tackling defence has been outstanding. Any insight into the lower emphasis on defence?

Mate they just expect you to make the tackles at the back Can remember a particular game many years ago when my forwards didn't really like the thought of tackling a certain Choppy Close and I ended up heading the tackling count :laughing:

Answering your question though depends on heaps of things on how the sets progresses but more importantly on the state of the game

What happens in the first five minutes and what happens in the last 5 minutes of a tight game are completely different and you are making different calculations on what might or mightn't happen

Whatever you do as a fullback must be instinctive and if it isn't you are buggered to put it mildly

The other thing is kickers usually favour a particular side when on a particular side of the field and you hoped you have worked out who was taking the kick as well

Depends on the quality of the team I was playing against would depend how deep I would play also

Sometimes if you played shallow ,they would kick early in the count ,but players may have thought they had a chance of regathering My thought process was if they are doing that they aren't probably moving up in a straight line and would give opportunities of counterattacking

Lots of people think playing fullback is pretty easy , but the higher level you play it at the harder it gets ,especially the mental side and trying to read what the oppositions attack is planning

 

[Juro]

So is all the yelling at fullback the reason Lockyer had to move to 5/8?

 

[jctiger]

Mate they just expect you to make the tackles at the back Can remember a particular game many years ago when my forwards didn't really like the thought of tackling a certain Choppy Close and I ended up heading the tackling count :laughing:

Answering your question though depends on heaps of things on how the sets progresses but more importantly on the state of the game

What happens in the first five minutes and what happens in the last 5 minutes of a tight game are completely different and you are making different calculations on what might or mightn't happen

Whatever you do as a fullback must be instinctive and if it isn't you are buggered to put it mildly

The other thing is kickers usually favour a particular side when on a particular side of the field and you hoped you have worked out who was taking the kick as well

Depends on the quality of the team I was playing against would depend how deep I would play also

Sometimes if you played shallow ,they would kick early in the count ,but players may have thought they had a chance of regathering My thought process was if they are doing that they aren't probably moving up in a straight line and would give opportunities of counterattacking

Lots of people think playing fullback is pretty easy , but the higher level you play it at the harder it gets ,especially the mental side and trying to read what the oppositions attack is planning

So Happy,
you've played against Chis Choppy Close.
Was that in the under 10s or have you played in the NRL. :slight_smile:

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Tiger_Watto]

NRL didnt exist when Choppy last laced up a boot, so I'll assume it was in the BRL days.

Was Choppy at Redcliffe, or was it Norths?

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[jctiger]

NRL didnt exist when Choppy last laced up a boot, so I'll assume it was in the BRL days.

Was Choppy at Redcliffe, or was it Norths?

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

My mistake, I probably should have said ARL.
II thought Chris Close played for Manly and one of the Gold Coast franchises.
Not sure what QRL sides he played for.
Just curious as to what Happy's history is ?

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Tiger_Watto]

NRL didnt exist when Choppy last laced up a boot, so I'll assume it was in the BRL days.

Was Choppy at Redcliffe, or was it Norths?

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

My mistake, I probably should have said ARL.
II thought Chris Close played for Manly and one of the Gold Coast franchises.
Not sure what QRL sides he played for.
Just curious as to what Happy's history is ?

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

oh, that's easy… He was a lazy Fullback :wink:

 

[fibrodreaming]

The new lock forward is a mobile prop,aka Merrin,he plugs the middle and tries to create up the centre,the old style cover defending lock is gone.
Secondrow nowdays are more like centres but bigger and defend one player in,Patterson and Sirronen could form a leathal backrow row with Blair at lock if used correctly..

Interesting point about the old style cover defending lock. I thought they went out with high-button boots.

The two best cover-defenders I can recall are Johnny Raper from the 1960s and Steve Mortimer from the 1970s. It is unbelievable that in the space of a decade, the role of cover defending moved from the lock to the half back.

These days, however, I don't believe any particular position is designated as cover defender. Everybody scrambles as best they can and hopes for the best.

 

[Mccarry]

It seems that the hooker is a preferred target of big forwards running at the line. The hooker due to size of body, not size of heart tends to bend backwards on first contact, particularly when the defensive line is already going backwards.

As it seems to be a preference for early in the set runners to pick out the hooker, why have the hooker the middle of the field the first three tackles. Ie don't give them the option the attacking team wants. I would have thought that the hooking role could have the benefits if the breakaway in rugby if it was reserved for middle and end of the set.

Any thoughts?

 

[Sabre]

I think we are going to see a big change in the traditional fullback.
Greg Inglis is definitely unconventional but he's done remarkably well at the back and other clubs will soon be looking to replicate that.

 

[happy_tiger]

I think we are going to see a big change in the traditional fullback.
Greg Inglis is definitely unconventional but he's done remarkably well at the back and other clubs will soon be looking to replicate that.

Inglis could basically play any position from 1-6 successfully

I still believe smaller more nimble players at fullback will be the norm

 

[Goose]

I think we are going to see a big change in the traditional fullback.
Greg Inglis is definitely unconventional but he's done remarkably well at the back and other clubs will soon be looking to replicate that.

Inglis could basically play any position from 1-6 successfully

I still believe smaller more nimble players at fullback will be the norm

I think you are selling GI short, in addition to being a freak from 1-6, which he has already proven he would be a great back rower, a good prop and could probably be a stop gap half back !
Most guys GI's size won't have the engine to play full back, I don't expect it to become the norm any time soon