Qantas War

[happy_tiger]

Whats everyones thoughts on the actions of Qantas
Until I found out that it was only Qantas not flying and not Qantaslink or Jetstar I was ready to kill someone
(Wife is having to fly down to BrisVegas for some major back surgery on Monday afternoon)
But now that is sorted I think it was a master stroke by Qantas
Federal Govt is in a no win situation with this
Why you ask ??

If they support the Unions they will they will get lamblasted for being biased against Business v Unions

If they don't support the Unions they are screwed also
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This could be the biggest decision of Gillards political career

Do you agree with how Qantas have handled this and where do you see this ending up ??

 

[AndTheKungFoSing]

Do you agree with how Qantas have handled this and where do you see this ending up ??

Not one bit, Alan Joyce's speech was full of hypocritical remarks aimed to win of the 'aussie battler'.

I'm sick of big companies treating people like dirt. From what I hear, the staff at Qantas are already paid quite handsomely, but imo, this is bigger than Qantas staff. People around the world are starting to realise they DON'T have to take the BS that these companies dish out, how they steal and keep the cogs turning to keep filling their own pockets. Exec wages continue to rise at a dramatically higher rate than those of the workers…

The total value of remuneration for the executives was $14.44 million, up from $8.91 million last year. Playing dumb and saying everyone got an equal percentage share, how many people on this forum got a 40% pay rise last year? More importantly how many Qantas workers got a 40% pay rise? However for sake of accuracy... Joyce received a 71 per cent increase from $2.92 million in 2009-10 to $5.01 million this year and also granted 1.7 million Qantas shares under a long-term incentive plan.

I already had a rant about this, not really keen to go on it again, but I think what Joyce and Qantas has done is criminal. I've been watching the fares for all other companies sky rocket too.... including Jetstars which have quadrupled in price, if not more for most domestic flights! So it's not all doom and gloom for the bastards.

*waits for the union bashing to begin*

 

[happy_tiger]

Kaiser you should of seen theprices go up with Virgin for a flight for Missus (if we needed it ) By the time the wife got on the computer to check they had gone from usually $150 -$ 250 (for short notice) to almost $500

That was the comment I forgot to make

It was almost like Virgin knew in advance of what was happening …........

 

[stryker]

What choice did he have Kaiser? let himself be bullied out of the market by the unions? They have cost the organisation $70 million so far with further costs of $15 million per week to follow.

..and what if he gave in to all of their demands as they want? I'll tell you exactly what will happen. Staff will have to be layed off. Joyce has called their bluff after months of negotiation breakdowns. It should never have gotten to this point but it has now and its firmly on their heads.

 

[hammertime]

Let's be honest guys, the problem is us. If we wanted to fly with the more expensive qantas, then they would have no problem with wage increases.

We don't, and the qantas business model aint going to work in the future.

So, they want to create a business airline out of Asia. Its the only way forward to ensure they keep a premium brand with a low cost brand, while the qantas brand starts to diminish….which it will over time if they don't act and freeze wages.

Stryker - you make a good point. Union action usually costs far more than the increases. I feel for Alan Joyce, he is in a no win scenario if the unions keep this up. They will only make the situation that they are fighting against worse.

Kaiser - here is the difference. People work extremely hard and make a lot of life sacrifices to be a CEO. It's not out of reach of anybody. But people chose comfort and want to have no worries when they knock off at 5pm. I have no problem thinking Alan Joyce is worth $5mil.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

From what I am told the staff are paid quite well in all areas (obviously they would have to be in accordance with Australian award rates.)

What the unions have done with baggage handling, engineers and the such walking off the job is criminal. The company has every right to offer what they deem reasonable and just because the employees don't deign Qantas' proposal as sufficient they believe they have every right to walk off the job. With the damage created by the industrial action, I wouldn't be offering them more than the CPI!

With people on the other side of the planet losing their businesses and jobs I can't believe they're risking this sort of action. No doubt this action is also putting other Australian Qantas jobs at risk in areas that are not striking. I'm glad I didn't fly Qantas to Europe, I'd be perpetually worried about whether I am going to arrive with my luggage or even at all, and that's a sad indictment on a once lived Australian icon in the business world.

Send their jobs overseas to India where the work will be appreciated and let these beggars whinge about their standard of living in their own time. See how luxurious life is on the dole for them…

 

[cunno]

Do you agree with how Qantas have handled this and where do you see this ending up ??

Not one bit, Alan Joyce's speech was full of hypocritical remarks aimed to win of the 'aussie battler'.

I'm sick of big companies treating people like dirt. From what I hear, the staff at Qantas are already paid quite handsomely, but imo, this is bigger than Qantas staff. People around the world are starting to realise they DON'T have to take the BS that these companies dish out, how they steal and keep the cogs turning to keep filling their own pockets. Exec wages continue to rise at a dramatically higher rate than those of the workers…

The total value of remuneration for the executives was $14.44 million, up from $8.91 million last year. Playing dumb and saying everyone got an equal percentage share, how many people on this forum got a 40% pay rise last year? More importantly how many Qantas workers got a 40% pay rise? However for sake of accuracy... Joyce received a 71 per cent increase from $2.92 million in 2009-10 to $5.01 million this year and also granted 1.7 million Qantas shares under a long-term incentive plan.

I already had a rant about this, not really keen to go on it again, but I think what Joyce and Qantas has done is criminal. I've been watching the fares for all other companies sky rocket too.... including Jetstars which have quadrupled in price, if not more for most domestic flights! So it's not all doom and gloom for the bastards.

*waits for the union bashing to begin*

Good points here Kaiser.

Interesting listening to Joyce being interviewed on Channel 9 this morning, when pressed about his own pay rises he wouldn't provide a straight answer.

 

[Tigerdave]

Prawn sandwiches and chardonay don't come cheap, the workers obviously don't understand that :neutral_face:

I don't know how the exec's can honestly justify their pay rises, we're seeing people world wide complain about that sort of stuff.

 

[AndTheKungFoSing]

What choice did he have Kaiser? let himself be bullied out of the market by the unions? They have cost the organisation $70 million so far with further costs of $15 million per week to follow.

..and what if he gave in to all of their demands as they want? I'll tell you exactly what will happen. Staff will have to be layed off. Joyce has called their bluff after months of negotiation breakdowns. It should never have gotten to this point but it has now and its firmly on their heads.

CRAP, sorry.

5 days ago the execs gave themselves a pay-raise of 7mil to 15Mil in total (Joyce gave himself a 3.5Mil, which he used his own 10Mil shares to vote for!)… your telling me that this decision just came about 4 days ago? This act is CRIMINAL!

Staff wages amount to what? The fact the board has acted this way while the dispute is ongoing ia only further proof in my mind what they are doing is justified.

Nothing to do with calling a bluff. This is a selfish act, from a man who is NOT Australian and has NO interests to protect Australian workers.

 

[Guest]

This tool Joyce has to go. He is ruining Qantas and he has the hide to come out and say the employees are costing the company so many millions of dollars each week, yet feels the only way to move forward is to ground the fleet??? Please, how much money is that going to cost them, not to mention their financial profile on the stock exchange…Plus he now has probably 90% of the Australian population as an enemy now.

I can see no good coming out of this for either party.

 

[cunno]

The good will be if Joyce goes.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

This is one of the greatest actions taken by a CEO and I applaud Alan Joyce for finally sticking it to these Union Scum…

There behaviours is nothing more than 'terrorist' and holding thier employers to ransom is unacceptable. If you are not happy with your employers, go find a new one!!!

Julia Gillard needs another kick in the arse for sitting on the fence and not putting an end to these actions sooner. Its pretty obvious Julia has been eating "Crab Meat Sandwiches and sipping Moet" in the spa with her union backers.

Time to go Australian Labour Party....

 

[Tigermac]

This is one of the greatest actions taken by a CEO and I applaud Alan Joyce for finally sticking it to these Union Scum…

There behaviours is nothing more than 'terrorist' and holding thier employers to ransom is unacceptable. If you are not happy with your employers, go find a new one!!!

Julia Gillard needs another kick in the arse for sitting on the fence and not putting an end to these actions sooner. Its pretty obvious Julia has been eating "Crab Meat Sandwiches and sipping Moet" in the spa with her union backers.

Time to go Australian Labour Party....

:roll :roll :roll :roll

 

[Guest]

This is one of the greatest actions taken by a CEO and I applaud Alan Joyce for finally sticking it to these Union Scum…

There behaviours is nothing more than 'terrorist' and holding thier employers to ransom is unacceptable. If you are not happy with your employers, go find a new one!!!

Julia Gillard needs another kick in the arse for sitting on the fence and not putting an end to these actions sooner. Its pretty obvious Julia has been eating "Crab Meat Sandwiches and sipping Moet" in the spa with her union backers.

Time to go Australian Labour Party....

You don't think Joyce is planning on wielding the axe on many Australian employees and sending jobs overseas Watto? Joyce is taking the Australian public for a ride.

 

[innsaneink]

**This tool Joyce has to go**. He is ruining Qantas and he has the hide to come out and say the employees are costing the company so many millions of dollars each week, yet feels the only way to move forward is to ground the fleet??? Please, how much money is that going to cost them, not to mention their financial profile on the stock exchange…Plus he now has probably 90% of the Australian population as an enemy now.

I can see no good coming out of this for either party.

I think he signed his death warrant yestrday…hes good as gone

 

[barra]

Firstly, Quantas probably can't afford to continue business as it has. With the ever-increasing costs of running a business in this country, they are following what so many have done and are looking at a move to a more cost effective base in Asia. This will both ensure survival and maintain profits.

Secondly the CEOs will get what they can, while they can - although many may not agree and there are protests gaining momentum about this. But probably the status quo will remain.

Thirdly, a company cannot be held to ransom by its workers. The guy on the big bucks has taken a stand - not against the workers or the public, but against the unions. Rather than be slowly strangled by them he has drawn his sword. Obviously it is his view that the short term financial pain will result in a long-term gain.

One thing that many workers do not realise is that when they want too much they can lose everything (unions seem quick to forget this). I'm an employer but for a long time I was an employee. Sometimes both need to remember there is another side to every employment situation.

I feel sorry for all the employees and consumers that are effected by this, but in this instance I can fully understand Joyce's actions.

I guess that's why they pay him the big bucks.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

This isnt just about Corporates vs Workers… This is a society issue that is spiraling out of control. If its cheaper taking jobs off-shore, then there is something wrong with this whole Minimum Wage issue... The Australian worker wants higher wages, but then complains the price of Apples are too dear, yet those apples have possibly gone through 5 sets of hands on a minimum wage before you bought them driving prices up.

We are killing ourselves... We have 3 TV's in most households, some sort of computer games console plus 20 games, 1/2 the Australians households now have an espresso machine and we choose to eat out 2-3 times a week on average, but complain about our living expenses are to high and we struggle to meet morgage payments, even though 1/2 the people in this country have morgages they simply cant afford but they want to keep up with the Jones???

No workers have a right of claim to profits if they are not shareholders of the company. They get paid to do a job and go home. If they dont like there employment conditions, maybe they need to find a new job. Dont think for one second these Qantas employees are under-paid!!!

 

[stryker]

What choice did he have Kaiser? let himself be bullied out of the market by the unions? They have cost the organisation $70 million so far with further costs of $15 million per week to follow.

..and what if he gave in to all of their demands as they want? I'll tell you exactly what will happen. Staff will have to be layed off. Joyce has called their bluff after months of negotiation breakdowns. It should never have gotten to this point but it has now and its firmly on their heads.

CRAP, sorry.

5 days ago the execs gave themselves a pay-raise of 7mil to 15Mil in total (Joyce gave himself a 3.5Mil, which he used his own 10Mil shares to vote for!)… your telling me that this decision just came about 4 days ago? This act is CRIMINAL!

Staff wages amount to what? The fact the board has acted this way while the dispute is ongoing ia only further proof in my mind what they are doing is justified.

Nothing to do with calling a bluff. This is a selfish act, from a man who is NOT Australian and has NO interests to protect Australian workers.

Staff wages are only but a part of the unions claims here.

I agree what came out of the shareholders meeting the other day was not a great look however it was voted upon by the shareholders in a democratic process…in stark contrast to how the unions do business. Their bully boy tactics have cost the organisation 10's and 10's of millions. He is entitled to earn what the market dictates and is still only earning (after his raise), 50% of what his predecessor Dixon was on only a few years ago.

The governement didnt step in to help until yesterday and the CEO has taken an extreme 'balls out' decision that short term pain will end this dispute. I dont envy him and think a huge storm of criticism is coming his way...however he is there to run the business and should not be dictated to by his employees representatives.

Your nationalistic argument is typical of a unionists "us v's them" attitude. His race should not be brought into it but everywhere you look it is and it is a tactic often used by these scum. 'If your not with us you are not Australian'....give me a break.

 

[stryker]

No workers have a right of claim to profits if they are not shareholders of the company. They get paid to do a job and go home. If they dont like there employment conditions, maybe they need to find a new job. Dont think for one second these Qantas employees are under-paid!!!

Good work Watto…100% true. This attitude of entitlement really gets me angry. The organisation is not in business to make the employees rich. They are merely a resource that the company utilises to return good dividends to the SHAREHOLDERS.

If you dont like your lot in life undertake some courses, get retrained, apply for other positions. Self improvement and hard work will get you the lifestyle you want - not sitting on your arse striking.

 

[Snake]

It's started enjoy the ride ..Qantas is the first and by no means the last of corporate Australia locking there doors..theres no more money on the tree we are already living well beyond our means.Welcombe to the new era its called doing it tough and it's just around the corner! by the way unskilled baggage handlers earning 90K a year with all benifits O/T ect some will never learn and need to be taught a lesson in appreciation for what one has ..but we do live in the never get enough era!!!