Qantas War

[AndTheKungFoSing]

Your bringing in a different debate which carries emotion for many Australians who live on a minimum wage and cant fathom Executive Salaries and thier worth…

I might be… my original post in this thread perhaps suggests I am off on a tangent. My rants are primarily around this, that it is true, but it is something seriously upsets me.

My issue is NOT the amount, the amount is irrelevant. My gripe is that exec salaries have continued to grow unproportionally. I am completely aware that responsibility is a huge factor in remuneration packages, however when I read figures suggesting that exec pay has risen to 500 times that of the avg worker they employ from 40 times in just 20 years... Something is critically wrong in this world!

Sooooo to constantly hear Joyce refer to tightening belts to argue against giving those who work for Qantas pay rises, annoys me... immenseley

 

[hammertime]

Could be assassinated?

That was from a poster on WTF.

Okay here is the "threat". Make of it what you will, I'm not going to debate whether the guy is in danger, I'm just suggesting the publicised threat was overblown. Anyway here it is:

"It's coming soon Paddy. You can't even see it!

"The Unions will fight you … Qantas is our airline, started & staffed by Australians, not foreign filth like you.

"All your evil plans ... will come back to you very swiftly, & kick you (sic) Irish FOREIGN ARSE out of the country."

It is a threat, plain and simple. I think this is just semantics mate. The police thought it was serious enough to investigate.

 

[stryker]

Could be assassinated? Okay here is the "threat". Make of it what you will, I'm not going to debate whether the guy is in danger, I'm just suggesting the publicised threat was overblown. Anyway here it is:

"It's coming soon Paddy. You can't even see it!

"The Unions will fight you … Qantas is our airline, started & staffed by Australians, not foreign filth like you.

"All your evil plans ... will come back to you very swiftly, & kick you (sic) Irish FOREIGN ARSE out of the country."

Thats just lovely sentiments isnt it? Its not like he has chucked an Enron here….he hasnt destroyed peoples lives.....he did his job. This is what I meant by untold damage to his personal character.

 

[hammertime]

Your bringing in a different debate which carries emotion for many Australians who live on a minimum wage and cant fathom Executive Salaries and thier worth…

I might be… my original post in this thread perhaps suggests I am off on a tangent. My rants are primarily around this, that it is true, but it is something seriously upsets me.

My issue is NOT the amount, the amount is irrelevant. My gripe is that exec salaries have continued to grow unproportionally. I am completely aware that responsibility is a huge factor in remuneration packages, however when I read figures suggesting that exec pay has risen to 500 times that of the avg worker they employ from 40 times in just 20 years... Something is critically wrong in this world!

Sooooo to constantly hear Joyce refer to tightening belts to argue against giving those who work for Qantas pay rises, annoys me... immenseley

I agree with that Kaiser. But $5mil is not much for a CEO, and people have choices in life. They can pursue to be at the pinnacle of industry if they have the talent and drive. It's a fundamental principle of what keeps people bettering themselves and our economy strong. There is a lot of sacrifices made to become a CEO that most people aren't willing to make.

There are wages that need culling for sure, but mostly in the financial sector when it's tied to risk taking rather than risk-adjusted performance.

More remuneration should be focused on performance and the government should legislate as such.

 

[AndTheKungFoSing]

Kaiser, i believe Joyce has been running a company that is really struggling to keep its head afloat with external pressures constantly applying pressure to the bottom line.

With the upgraded costs associated with global terrorism, fuel pricing, the GFC and the high Australian dollar he has been up against it for his whole tenure. Obviously I havent seen the balance sheets but it stands to reason that changes have to be made.

The timing of the executive pay bumps is unfortunate as it does look bad…however Joyces payrise has increased his salary to just under 50% of what his predecessor was on. He has been underpaid for years now. He is still earning $5miliion less than he was in 2007\. Now if you and I were earning half of what we were earning 4 years ago we would have left the industry. He has stuck around and tried his best to increase profits. This earned him a pay bump that is still less than what he deserves.

I understand your point, however I personally think it is unfair given much of his recent commentary, if things were booming and great… I would care less.

 

[Yossarian]

Could be assassinated?

That was from a poster on WTF.

Okay here is the "threat". Make of it what you will, I'm not going to debate whether the guy is in danger, I'm just suggesting the publicised threat was overblown. Anyway here it is:

"It's coming soon Paddy. You can't even see it!

"The Unions will fight you … Qantas is our airline, started & staffed by Australians, not foreign filth like you.

"All your evil plans ... will come back to you very swiftly, & kick you (sic) Irish FOREIGN ARSE out of the country."

It is a threat, plain and simple. I think this is just semantics mate. The police thought it was serious enough to investigate.

Well we'll have to disagree on this. The police investigated it because it was passed on to them - I doubt they even bothered tracking the source. To me that is not a death threat - I've seen enough real threats to tell the difference. Like I said I don't want to debate this - different people will interpret it differently. To me it reads "I think you stuffed up and you're going to lose your job and have to go back to Irelend." But anyway that's my reading of it.

 

[Yossarian]

Could be assassinated? Okay here is the "threat". Make of it what you will, I'm not going to debate whether the guy is in danger, I'm just suggesting the publicised threat was overblown. Anyway here it is:

"It's coming soon Paddy. You can't even see it!

"The Unions will fight you … Qantas is our airline, started & staffed by Australians, not foreign filth like you.

"All your evil plans ... will come back to you very swiftly, & kick you (sic) Irish FOREIGN ARSE out of the country."

Thats just lovely sentiments isnt it? Its not like he has chucked an Enron here….he hasnt destroyed peoples lives.....he did his job. This is what I meant by untold damage to his personal character.

I agree it's completely OTT and pretty spiteful yeah.

 

[stryker]

Kaiser, i believe Joyce has been running a company that is really struggling to keep its head afloat with external pressures constantly applying pressure to the bottom line.

With the upgraded costs associated with global terrorism, fuel pricing, the GFC and the high Australian dollar he has been up against it for his whole tenure. Obviously I havent seen the balance sheets but it stands to reason that changes have to be made.

The timing of the executive pay bumps is unfortunate as it does look bad…however Joyces payrise has increased his salary to just under 50% of what his predecessor was on. He has been underpaid for years now. He is still earning $5miliion less than he was in 2007\. Now if you and I were earning half of what we were earning 4 years ago we would have left the industry. He has stuck around and tried his best to increase profits. This earned him a pay bump that is still less than what he deserves.

I understand your point, however I personally think it is unfair given much of his recent commentary, if things were booming and great… I would care less.

I understand what your saying as well. The timing for these executive salary increases is totally p-poor. However Joyce has played a strong hand and as such has forced arbitration upon proceedings. From what I understand, if negotiations between management and the unions isnt settled then a third party will make the decision.

 

[hammertime]

Here is a great article about executive salaries. It's too big to copy and paste. Well worth the read.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/why-executives-are-worth-their-fat-salaries-20111107-1n329.html

 

[happy_tiger]

Well only 13 days to go and I have heard nothing about the Unions or Qantas coming close to making headway on their pay dispute

Where to then we ask ?? More strikes or the airline stops the country again . Glad to see that both sides of the argument have the Australian people interests at heart :astonished:

 

[hammertime]

Well only 13 days to go and I have heard nothing about the Unions or Qantas coming close to making headway on their pay dispute

Where to then we ask ?? More strikes or the airline stops the country again . Glad to see that both sides of the argument have the Australian people interests at heart :astonished:

Yeah mate, I don't think there will be an agreement. I'm not sure what happens after that? I heard something about the Fair Work Tribunal has the ability to rule one way or the other? But I can't see how they can force a private company to spend a certain amount of wages.

 

[happy_tiger]

Well only 13 days to go and I have heard nothing about the Unions or Qantas coming close to making headway on their pay dispute

Where to then we ask ?? More strikes or the airline stops the country again . Glad to see that both sides of the argument have the Australian people interests at heart :astonished:

Yeah mate, I don't think there will be an agreement. I'm not sure what happens after that? I heard something about the Fair Work Tribunal has the ability to rule one way or the other? But I can't see how they can force a private company to spend a certain amount of wages.

My understanding Hammer is if they FWT can see some progress with the discussions between the two parties they can extend it by another 21 days to try and get some answers for either side No doubt they will just say that their is some improvements and just grant the extra 21 days

Just delaying the inevitable in my opinion Something that the FWT and Gillard have in common

 

[hammertime]

Just delaying the inevitable in my opinion Something that the FWT and Gillard have in common

Haha, true that Happy and thanks for the info. I can't see an impasse happening. I wonder what happens if the 2 parties don't come to a resolution.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Qantas moves its home to Asia… FWT cant make any rulings against Qantas then.

Many will blame Joyce, but the real issue is minimum wage and how it is killing this country!!!

 

[happy_tiger]

Qantas moves its home to Asia… FWT cant make any rulings against Qantas then.

Many will blame Joyce, but the real issue is minimum wage and how it is killing this country!!!

Watto everything is killing this country and probably the biggest issue is still lack of population ,cost of living etc etc etc Where do you want to start ??