Qantas War

[westTAHger]

If you dont like your lot in life undertake some courses, get retrained, apply for other positions. Self improvement and hard work will get you the lifestyle you want - not sitting on your arse striking.
.
ain't that the truth.
never to old to learn something new, its just whether you wish to make the effort.

 

[Citizen_Tiger]

Leaving aside the predictable political rhetoric, the act of grounding the fleet with absolutely no notice will not only cost Qantas immediate market share, but threaten their very survival. The key stakeholders in this imbroglio are not the employees, nor the shareholders, they're the customers. The people that make a commitment with their hard earned cash have been treated with indifference and contempt. They're the casualties of what is clearly a dysfunctional board.

Do yourself of a favor and examine the CV's of the board members. They're mostly engineers or those with a scientific background. Unbelievable that would have a board of that make up in a customer driven industry.

I feel sorry for not just their paying customers, but for the frontline staff that would have delivered the news of the grounding to thousands who were expecting their flights to leave. Gutless management, you could have had the bottle to come to the terminals yourself, but you left the staff take the heat.

 

[hammertime]

The key stakeholders in this imbroglio are not the employees, nor the shareholders, they're the customers.

Sorry mate, I know you are trying to make a point, but the key stakeholders are the shareholders. The own the company that is currently going down the gurgler thanks to ineffective IR laws and a reluctant government (which they cannot control). Customers have other options.

I feel sorry for not just their paying customers, but for the frontline staff that would have delivered the news of the grounding to thousands who were expecting their flights to leave. Gutless management, you could have had the bottle to come to the terminals yourself, but you left the staff take the heat.

I can tell you on good authority that most of the management staff haven't been in the offices, they have been at the front counters or helping load bags. Or what ever else needed to be done over the past few weeks with people walking off the job.

 

[king_sirro]

Do you agree with how Qantas have handled this and where do you see this ending up ??

Not one bit, Alan Joyce's speech was full of hypocritical remarks aimed to win of the 'aussie battler'.

I'm sick of big companies treating people like dirt. From what I hear, the staff at Qantas are already paid quite handsomely, but imo, this is bigger than Qantas staff. People around the world are starting to realise they DON'T have to take the BS that these companies dish out, how they steal and keep the cogs turning to keep filling their own pockets. Exec wages continue to rise at a dramatically higher rate than those of the workers…

The total value of remuneration for the executives was $14.44 million, up from $8.91 million last year. Playing dumb and saying everyone got an equal percentage share, how many people on this forum got a 40% pay rise last year? More importantly how many Qantas workers got a 40% pay rise? However for sake of accuracy... Joyce received a 71 per cent increase from $2.92 million in 2009-10 to $5.01 million this year and also granted 1.7 million Qantas shares under a long-term incentive plan.

I already had a rant about this, not really keen to go on it again, but I think what Joyce and Qantas has done is criminal. I've been watching the fares for all other companies sky rocket too.... including Jetstars which have quadrupled in price, if not more for most domestic flights! So it's not all doom and gloom for the bastards.

*waits for the union bashing to begin*

Kaiser, i worked at Qantas for 5 years and i can tell you they are not well paid. The basic rate of pay is quite average, but it does get bumped up with allowances and shift work. The standard office worker working monday to friday is not well off thats for sure. As you climb the ladder it naturally gets better, but it is no better (maybe not even level) with other corporate companies.

The problem is the big ended nobs like the CEO who take a "HUGE" pay and expect to make cuts across the company to suit themselves.

When i worked there, there was constant belief that the first Australian CEO to be assinated would be Geoff Dickson….well if there was any truth in that....this Irishmen might want to watch out. It only takes one unstable guy that loses his livleyhood to lose the plot.

And beside, what the hell is an Irishmen doing in charge of Qantas?

 

[tomcat]

Isnt Jullia Gillard a POMMY..

 

[tomcat]

And beside, what the hell is an Irishmen doing in charge of Qantas?

Isn"t Julia Gillard a Pommy.?

 

[hammertime]

Kaiser, i worked at Qantas for 5 years and i can tell you they are not well paid. The basic rate of pay is quite average, but it does get bumped up with allowances and shift work. The standard office worker working monday to friday is not well off thats for sure. As you climb the ladder it naturally gets better, but it is no better (maybe not even level) with other corporate companies.

The problem is the big ended nobs like the CEO who take a "HUGE" pay and expect to make cuts across the company to suit themselves.

When i worked there, there was constant belief that the first Australian CEO to be assinated would be Geoff Dickson….well if there was any truth in that....this Irishmen might want to watch out. It only takes one unstable guy that loses his livleyhood to lose the plot.

And beside, what the hell is an Irishmen doing in charge of Qantas?

Let me ask you this. Do you think Alan Joyce would be going through all this if he didn't have to?

This is why he gets paid the big bucks. Because he tries to do something that the company needs to do and there are people are out talking about his assassination. I'm sure he doesn't sleep well at night.

Honestly, $5mil wouldn't be enough for me to be in Alan Joyce's shoes.

 

[Citizen_Tiger]

The key stakeholders in this imbroglio are not the employees, nor the shareholders, they're the customers.

Sorry mate, I know you are trying to make a point, but the key stakeholders are the shareholders. The own the company that is currently going down the gurgler thanks to ineffective IR laws and a reluctant government (which they cannot control). Customers have other options.

I feel sorry for not just their paying customers, but for the frontline staff that would have delivered the news of the grounding to thousands who were expecting their flights to leave. Gutless management, you could have had the bottle to come to the terminals yourself, but you left the staff take the heat.

I can tell you on good authority that most of the management staff haven't been in the offices, they have been at the front counters or helping load bags. Or what ever else needed to be done over the past few weeks with people walking off the job.

The only sector that believes shareholders are the key stakeholders in a business are shareholders. Qantas is a retail business and in any successful retail business the maxim 'Customer is King' is a constant mantra. Qantas customers provided $10bill of revenue for the airline in 2011\. How much did the float raise? Shareholders are cranky because the heady days of decent dividends are a memory. I don't think the current share price is much more than $1.50.?

People develop strong relationships with airlines and with that comes loyalty. Joyce has pi…. On them, he's killed 1000s of those relationships and they'll never be recovered. Foolish move, more than foolish, just plain culpable. Additionally he's playing with a national icon and that's unacceptable.

 

[king_sirro]

Kaiser, i worked at Qantas for 5 years and i can tell you they are not well paid. The basic rate of pay is quite average, but it does get bumped up with allowances and shift work. The standard office worker working monday to friday is not well off thats for sure. As you climb the ladder it naturally gets better, but it is no better (maybe not even level) with other corporate companies.

The problem is the big ended nobs like the CEO who take a "HUGE" pay and expect to make cuts across the company to suit themselves.

When i worked there, there was constant belief that the first Australian CEO to be assinated would be Geoff Dickson….well if there was any truth in that....this Irishmen might want to watch out. It only takes one unstable guy that loses his livleyhood to lose the plot.

And beside, what the hell is an Irishmen doing in charge of Qantas?

Let me ask you this. Do you think Alan Joyce would be going through all this if he didn't have to?

This is why he gets paid the big bucks. Because he tries to do something that the company needs to do and there are people are out talking about his assassination. I'm sure he doesn't sleep well at night.

Honestly, $5mil wouldn't be enough for me to be in Alan Joyce's shoes.

So would you put the average joe blows career at risk and cost the company 20 mil a day by grounding the fleet? This could be the end of Qantas as we know it because a CEO handled things wrong.

So whats his options now? Sit on his pretty paypacket, sell the company (without actually selling it)….a new name, new employess and new conditions.....and Qantas no longer exists......he'll retire well Alan Joyce, and it wont be in Australia.......but he'll leave many families hurting.

Your crying poor Alan Joyce, i wouldnt be him for 5million....well Alan Joyce will be gone from Qantas within time on enough money to well and truly deal with the few months of hard work he's going through now.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I don't know what him being Irish has to do with it. It's not like he's the first foreign CEO of an Australian company. Telstra had a Yank and Coles Group currently has a Scotsman in charge. And I can tell you that Ian McLeod of Coles is a far more sinister individual than Joyce could ever be.

Unfortunately, this country thinks it's fine to allow employees dictate the terms of business operations of companies and that's what I am sick of. In the industry I work in, the companies make very little profit because our customers are a duopoly and they dictate our terms. The blokes in the field are the best off, as they are well paid, have excellent overtime rates and are paid for every hour they work.

 

[king_sirro]

I don't know what him being Irish has to do with it. It's not like he's the first foreign CEO of an Australian company. Telstra had a Yank and Coles Group currently has a Scotsman in charge. And I can tell you that Ian McLeod of Coles is a far more sinister individual than Joyce could ever be.

Unfortunately, this country thinks it's fine to allow employees dictate the terms of business operations of companies and that's what I am sick of. In the industry I work in, the companies make very little profit because our customers are a duopoly and they dictate our terms. The blokes in the field are the best off, as they are well paid, have excellent overtime rates and are paid for every hour they work.

Two different sides two different views…..as far as Qantas goes...if you think constant rumours about job loss (month after month, year after year) and earning $55k a year doing shift work and having every 3rd weekend off with family is "best off" than your sadly mistaking.

 

[king_sirro]

Qantas workers cherish their jobs. Their a certain romance about working at the irport thats worth more than money,…..theres no way they are risking all this if it isnt whats right. But lets give Joyce a huge pay. :crazy

 

[happy_tiger]

I don't know what him being Irish has to do with it. It's not like he's the first foreign CEO of an Australian company. Telstra had a Yank and Coles Group currently has a Scotsman in charge. And I can tell you that Ian McLeod of Coles is a far more sinister individual than Joyce could ever be.

Unfortunately, this country thinks it's fine to allow employees dictate the terms of business operations of companies and that's what I am sick of. In the industry I work in, the companies make very little profit because our customers are a duopoly and they dictate our terms. The blokes in the field are the best off, as they are well paid, have excellent overtime rates and are paid for every hour they work.

Two different sides two different views…..as far as Qantas goes...if you think constant rumours about job loss (month after month, year after year) and earning $55k a year doing shift work and having every 3rd weekend off with family is "best off" than your sadly mistaking.

I haven't had a weekend off since the 1st week of the semis

KS These guys know that an axe hangs over their heads when they decide to take jobs in those areas

I have staff working for me who'd dream to earn 55 k a year and get every 3rd weekend off Its not as if these guys have done 4 years at Uni

 

[king_sirro]

Are these people not having their weekends off like you and dreaming of earning 55K? Im not talking about just a saturday or just a sunday, im talking about both days on the weekend, If you have guys under you working every saturday and sunday and earning less then $50k a year than thats criminal

 

[wests4ever]

The bottom line in all this is the Unions are greedy & think it is their divine right to have job security.
No One is entitled & that includes the bludgers who work for all Public Service Depts & Institutions in this country. I "earn" my money not receive bloody caash handouts like these Public Service freeloaders who get "appearance money"!!!!!!
The Govt are a bunch of "soft–--s" who should have taken action months ago!!!!!

 

[happy_tiger]

Are these people not having their weekends off like you and dreaming of earning 55K? Im not talking about just a saturday or just a sunday, im talking about both days on the weekend, If you have guys under you working every saturday and sunday and earning less then $50k a year than thats criminal

Mate totally agree its criminal but it happens KS
And I'm sure their are others here who could say the same thing
Unfortunately you are not going to be able to recreate the wheel mate

 

[hammertime]

Kaiser, i worked at Qantas for 5 years and i can tell you they are not well paid. The basic rate of pay is quite average, but it does get bumped up with allowances and shift work. The standard office worker working monday to friday is not well off thats for sure. As you climb the ladder it naturally gets better, but it is no better (maybe not even level) with other corporate companies.

The problem is the big ended nobs like the CEO who take a "HUGE" pay and expect to make cuts across the company to suit themselves.

When i worked there, there was constant belief that the first Australian CEO to be assinated would be Geoff Dickson….well if there was any truth in that....this Irishmen might want to watch out. It only takes one unstable guy that loses his livleyhood to lose the plot.

And beside, what the hell is an Irishmen doing in charge of Qantas?

Let me ask you this. Do you think Alan Joyce would be going through all this if he didn't have to?

This is why he gets paid the big bucks. Because he tries to do something that the company needs to do and there are people are out talking about his assassination. I'm sure he doesn't sleep well at night.

Honestly, $5mil wouldn't be enough for me to be in Alan Joyce's shoes.

So would you put the average joe blows career at risk and cost the company 20 mil a day by grounding the fleet? This could be the end of Qantas as we know it because a CEO handled things wrong.

So whats his options now? Sit on his pretty paypacket, sell the company (without actually selling it)….a new name, new employess and new conditions.....and Qantas no longer exists......he'll retire well Alan Joyce, and it wont be in Australia.......but he'll leave many families hurting

Your crying poor Alan Joyce, i wouldnt be him for 5million....well Alan Joyce will be gone from Qantas within time on enough money to well and truly deal with the few months of hard work he's going through now.

Mate, the families will be hurting eventually if no action is taken. it's a business, it's no longer viable and changes need to be made before it becomes another ansett!

Customers created this, we created this. Not Alan. He is just responding in a way that will keep the red kangaroo alive for as long as possible. Quite cleverly I might add with the planed red Q business class out of Asia.

He worked long and hard to get to this level. Anyone can do it. even the average Joe. He shouldn't be demonized for making it to the drivers seat. No one would want to make the decisions he has had to make. All because our country is controlled by mindless unions.

 

[softlaw]

joyce is purely out for the shareholders (of which he is obviously a large one). Not Australian travellers, not Australian companies who provide services to QANTAS and certainly not Australian employees. His intention is to either:
1 - turn QANTAS into an overseas based airline using cheap overseas staff, facilities and suppliers (the goal he's been talking about quite publicly for a while)
and/or
2 - ensure that the wages/ costs he has to pay for Australian workers, facilities and suppliers are as cheap as possible, preferably as cheap as those he could get in a sweat shop economy overseas.

& he is obviously prepared to play brinksmanship games until he gets his way. Now is the perfect time for him to try it on because Aus. politics is so toxic towards anything even loosely affiliated with unions, labor or social support.

I hope QANTAS change their name when they move overseas. They certainly won;t be the Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Service anymore. The only link they'll have to those 2 places will be flying over them and doing what seagulls do.

 

[supercoach]

I have a fair bit of knowledge on this subject having worked for QANTAS for over 37 years. Although I don't work in a area that is in conflict with the company, I work closely with these departments.

The first thing its not about money but jobs. Qantas wants to out source nearly all jobs either onshore or off shore. Now if my job was under threat I would be upset too. I Worry where will the jobs be for our kids in the future if we stand back and do nothing. Okay the mining boom at present is keeping us a float but it will not be around for ever.

How can Joyce preach restraint when he is filling his pockets with gold. All qantas managers are on a bonus system plus a large basic wage. My mangers annual bonus is similar to my wage. How do they achieve these bonuses, screw the people below. Qantas has made some major blunders in recent times, aircraft purchases,routes and IT systems but no one seems accountable.

In our recent EBA we settled on 3%, I thought that was a fair deal considering the state of the world airline game than soon as we put pen to paper Joyce and his team start filling their pockets with gold.

Anyway their are no winners and at the end of the day the worker will be the loser as our fat cats ride off into the sunset with what ever money is left. Look at Anset, how quickly we forget. Iam not saying changes are wrong and not needed but the action Joyce has taken is wrong and not the way to go. Let me tell you their is a real us vas them thing going at qantas unlike the old days when we were a big happy team

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Qantas workers cherish their jobs. Their a certain romance about working at the irport thats worth more than money,…..theres no way they are risking all this if it isnt whats right. But lets give Joyce a huge pay. :crazy

KS, Joyce's pay increase has nothing to do with the ongoing dispute… Executive pays are derived from the airlines performance/profits and have nothing to do with day to day operations.

I find it halarious that people are whinging about the board grounding the airline over the past 24hrs, but the Unions and Employees have been grounding the airline for 4 months and thats ok?! :crazy

He has played the right card, pulled Gillards pants down and will now ultimately win this battle!!!