Recruitment club vs Development club

[weststigerman]

For the last 5 years or so the club has talked about being a development club.

This year for the first time in a while, our external recruits have been the ones changing the club, while arguably our best junior is leaving and a few of our highly rated players have not made the step up or been let go: Feledy, Matamua, Miller, Faagutu etc.

Almost all of our pathways teams have sucked this year. There are only a handful seen as first grade prospects.

A recruitment club like the Bulldogs seem to have better juniors than us.

Curious to see how those closer to the junior pathways see things.

 

[hsvjones]

We have lacked good External players for quite a few years now.
We finally have a solid CEO who knows exactly what a club needs and went and got them.. We just need another 2-3 and with our juniors we will be competitive, but we don't have as many top juniors as the media make out IMO.

We do now have the correct experienced players around to keep and develop them like other top clubs.

 

[Rock Hopper Steve]

If a couple of gems progress through the grades every couple of years and kill it in 1st grade we should consider that a good result.
Right across the NRL the sheer number of juniors that become good talent is tiny.

Our exception was the lead up to 2005 when a lot came through together but that doesn't happen often, proof being 20 years since.

 

[gregjm87]

For the last 5 years or so the club has talked about being a development club.

This year for the first time in a while, our external recruits have been the ones changing the club, while arguably our best junior is leaving and a few of our highly rated players have not made the step up or been let go: Feledy, Matamua, Miller, Faagutu etc.

Almost all of our pathways teams have sucked this year. There are only a handful seen as first grade prospects.

A recruitment club like the Bulldogs seem to have better juniors than us.

Curious to see how those closer to the junior pathways see things.

I don't think there really is such a thing as a development club (with Panthers perhaps the one exception). I think it's a line used by admin to alleviate the pressure of fans demanding immediate success.
Every single club relies on outside recruitment, be it recruiting current first graders or recruiting in the lower grades.
This isn't to say we should be ignoring our junior catchment or junior development. One (of the many) knocks on our club is that we struggle to develop players. We have no shortage of quality juniors, nor have we been lacking in the past. Progressing them through is the challenge.

 

[Tom Shines]

Other than Makisini…. Who are the juniors to be excited about who have not yet made their NRL debut ? I can’t say I’m hearing a lot of names tbh …

There should be a laundry list due to come through right considering we have been a development club for a while now ?

 

[TYGA]

Not many understand what successful pathways look like. Tigers have only invested at the required level for 2 years. You are taking about 16 year olds and then 4-5 years through the system.

Lack of focus from years gone by is the current cause however, given we have the junior nursery it will change with focus.

The club has to recruit heavily for another 2-3 years even if we get it right. Raiders annd Penrith are a good example they continuously bring through great juniors.

 

[Tom Shines]

Not many understand what successful pathways look like. Tigers have only invested at the required level for 2 years. You are taking about 16 year olds and then 4-5 years through the system.

Lack of focus from years gone by is the current cause however, given we have the junior nursery it will change with focus.

The club has to recruit heavily for another 2-3 years even if we get it right. Raiders annd Penrith are a good example they continuously bring through great juniors.

Explain please what you mean by “the required level”? It seems like the club has been on this “development pathway “ longer than 2 years ?

 

[Rock Hopper Steve]

Put my hand up to be out of my depth in this thread, don't have any knowledge of what's happening except for what gets posted.

The real change for me happened at this club when Richo walked into the building which is only 18 months ago, don't think this problem can be fixed by just flicking a switch.
To me it looks like a slow moving part that takes years of work to get right, now that Richo is here it will happen but we will have to wait a while.

 

[Tom Shines]

Put my hand up to be out of my depth in this thread, don't have any knowledge of what's happening except for what gets posted.

The real change for me happened at this club when Richo walked into the building which is only 18 months ago, don't think this problem can be fixed by just flicking a switch.
To me it looks like a slow moving part that takes years of work to get right, now that Richo is here it will happen but we will have to wait a while.

Richo has to overhaul everything about the club…. Pathways just one of several areas …i don’t believe Pascoe ignored the pathways though …he appointed Sheens back to oversee and run the pathways back in 2021 and a lot of people here were very happy about that move at the time…

5 years later and the juniors look very bare

 

[TYGA]

Explain please what you mean by “the required level”? It seems like the club has been on this “development pathway “ longer than 2 years ?

The club gave up on junior development after they lost their players to other clubs and dated back to the removal of U/20s comp. Balmain was broke and investment only came when control went back to Wests. Sheens appointment was the beginning however that was in 2022. You won’t get results in a little over 2 years.

The club now invests millions and I suspect the right man at the Helm in Richo. There’s a few promising ones Taupau Moors, Makasini, Goodinet etc

 

[tiger_one]

The club gave up on junior development after they lost their players to other clubs and dated back to the removal of U/20s comp. Balmain was broke and investment only came when control went back to Wests. Sheens appointment was the beginning however that was in 2022. You won’t get results in a little over 2 years.

The club now invests millions and I suspect the right man at the Helm in Richo. There’s a few promising ones Taupau Moors, Makasini, Goodinet etc

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said. ✅

 

[tonza]

For the last 5 years or so the club has talked about being a development club.

This year for the first time in a while, our external recruits have been the ones changing the club, while arguably our best junior is leaving and a few of our highly rated players have not made the step up or been let go: Feledy, Matamua, Miller, Faagutu etc.

Almost all of our pathways teams have sucked this year. There are only a handful seen as first grade prospects.

A recruitment club like the Bulldogs seem to have better juniors than us.

Curious to see how those closer to the junior pathways see things.

The Bulldogs starting 13 only had 1 junior in the side on Saturday. The rest were purchased from other clubs since Ciraldo took charge. Thats not to say they haven't made some very astute purchases.

 

[Rock Hopper Steve]

Richo has to overhaul everything about the club…. Pathways just one of several areas …i don’t believe Pascoe ignored the pathways though …he appointed Sheens back to oversee and run the pathways back in 2021 and a lot of people here were very happy about that move at the time…

5 years later and the juniors look very bare

Yes but was he in the position long enough Tom, seemed like 5 minutes before they moved him to head coach another stupid move from D&D.

If we left Sheens in the job with his hand on the pulse for all this time, could we now be getting results we all hope for, it's just another debate we will never know.
But the one good thing to come out of it for now is Benji, until he has a string of losses that is lol.

 

[Tom Shines]

The club gave up on junior development after they lost their players to other clubs and dated back to the removal of U/20s comp. Balmain was broke and investment only came when control went back to Wests. Sheens appointment was the beginning however that was in 2022. You won’t get results in a little over 2 years.

The club now invests millions and I suspect the right man at the Helm in Richo. There’s a few promising ones Taupau Moors, Makasini, Goodinet etc

Balmain went broke in 2015 or something ….and Wests took over 2019 ..that’s not a recent development

sheens was appointed in Mid 21 …im not sure of his start date but my maths is this is year 4 at least ..

its not like nothing was happening prior to Sheens arrival either … Pascoe was referring to the club as being a “development club “ preceding Sheens ..he had to say this because no established players wanted to sign here

 

[Tom Shines]

Yes but was he in the position long enough Tom, seemed like 5 minutes before they moved him to head coach another stupid move from D&D.

If we left Sheens in the job with his hand on the pulse for all this time, could we now be getting results we all hope for, it's just another debate we will never know.
But the one good thing to come out of it for now is Benji, until he has a string of losses that is lol.

Sheens himself campaigned for the coaching job, and Pascoe stupidly agreed

 

[Milky]

I think you need to be a recruitment club before you can become a development club.

You need experience and talent surrounding the juniors coming through to allow them to adapt and gain experience

 

[tiger_one]

Richo, in one of the Roar poddies, stated that we are a Development Club, and with 9000 juniors playing in our catchment - processes were to change within the club to mirror the Penrith model.

But as alluded to in this thread, it's not just turning on a switch - it is a process that will take time, from within all levels of the grassroots, and especially in the Macarthur region.

 

[supercoach]

Many years ago I heard a three way chat on the debate topic, development vs recruitment on the ABC. The participants were Sheens, Ryan and Uncle Wayne. They all said your chance of success is way higher going down the recruitment path as the return on money out laid going down the development track is very poor. They also said many clubs are forced down the development track because they can’t compete in the player market with the wealthy high profile clubs.

I guess now a mix of both is the way to go and at the end of the day clubs have a responsibility to develop their junior leagues. Also with more teams the player market is going to be a very hard market to compete in. Of course the other problem that gets little publicity, is that the big parasitic clubs are actively poaching quality juniors from other clubs, so even if you go down the development path, there is no guarantee your elite juniors will see it out to they get to grade

 

[gregjm87]

Not many understand what successful pathways look like. Tigers have only invested at the required level for 2 years. You are taking about 16 year olds and then 4-5 years through the system.

Lack of focus from years gone by is the current cause however, given we have the junior nursery it will change with focus.

The club has to recruit heavily for another 2-3 years even if we get it right. Raiders annd Penrith are a good example they continuously bring through great juniors.

I don't know how much is being invested currently or in the past but I've been reading on here more or less everything you have written for at least 5 years.
Is there any evidence that the current iteration of being serious the last 2 years is any truer than what has been written the last few years.

 

[The Chad]

I believe one of Madge's biggest concerns at the club was our pathways. When he had stepped into the role I believe our junior development was in significant turmoil.

Sheens appointment was supposed to implement a much better system to bring junior players through- and he has an amazing record of doing just that.

Unfortunately there were a number of circumstances to navigate at the club, from management, to the attractiveness of the club in terms of both retention & acquisition & then there was shifting Sheens into the coaching role on top of that.

We are seeing a number of players coming into the squad now. Last few years our squad balance was a real mess with too much reliance on inexperienced talent. Richo clearly saw the need for various pieces of experience & culture to be reintroduced & has gone about getting the balance better.

It is still only better. There is too much inexperienced depth relied upon in times of need. But it's better.