Recruitment

[Spud_Murphy]

Dont forget we are a destination club

God’s waiting room?

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

I bet anyone that come next year everyone will be eating their words. TPJ is worth every cent and we could have started to build around him



WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....:baby_bottle:

WOW build your team around a player who has shown he doesn't take orders to seriously and was virtually sacked by the BRONCOS you would have better luck building a team around Packer?????

 

[TigerWest]

The recruitment has been a bit of a shambles for almost the whole existence of the club tbh. We had a couple of good crops that wielded results, but even then we've only had three finals series (albeit we won a comp and could/should have won another).

Since 2011 the club has gone from panic move to panic move, resulting in lots of failed short term moves. Who can forget old mate Grant Mayer speculating that we'd make a GF in the mid 2010s?

I am a bit more confident in the club's direction over the last year or two. We've made some shrewd buys for the first time in a while, and some very promising youngsters on top of that. There have still been mis-steps (e.g. BJ) but I can at least see what we're building towards now. Hopefully we continue along that route in picking up these young guys and developing them into frontline FGers.

Of course, we'll still need to recruit elite players on top of that. The COE should help - I can't imagine the current/past facilities have sold the club very well.
But it's the old conundrum: you can't sign elite players until you have an elite team. And you can't have an elite team until you have elite players.

There is so much denial in this forum. This comment is a great example.

How have the Bulldogs signed Addo Carr, Tevita, and Burton then?

They do not have an elite team. What about the Titans signing Tino and Fifita? Did they have an elite team?

There are more factors at play here. Our location, our lack of success (3 finals in 21 years), our inability to locate and keep talent, our disregard of campbelltown, a lack of identity etc etc etc

If I was an NRL player right now, with my love of the Tigers, and had an option of the Tigers or any one else, I would not go to this club.

Tigers are the last Sydney club you'd choose. No home ground, no identity, it's not prime area to live, there's really nothing much there to attract people off the field let alone our decade of failure and drama. This is why we need to win games and make finals because we are behind other clubs in those other areas.


There are only 2 possible reasons we can’t get our player to sign on, you’ve mentioned one, the players don’t see the club as a reputation building club. A club with no home ground. Every time I think about that, it leads me to believe that the club’s administration just don’t get it.
The other reason could be, simply that our negotiating team simply don’t have the skill to close the deal? Now this is more likely the case considering that we are often the front runners for the signature.

I don’t believe the “no home ground” thing is an issue for players as much as it is for some fans, players will play where ever they are told, I would have thought?

I think the negotiation team is fine imo, we have a policy of not going over a value we have put on a players worth, other clubs put that worth higher than us. There is a long way to go to next season, I would be confident that the recruitment team have other players in there sights, so all is not lost.

 

[Crucible]

Desperation can be smelt miles away, so can Naivety and every Agent out there knows that we are Managerially weak. So we get played off other Clubs (like Canberra with the latest stumble) .
For those blaming the press for our image issues, grow up. Journo's are paid for stories and we just happen to provide them without ever meaning to do so (Naivety). It is also the Press that pay a Billion Dollars to the NRL for TV Rights etc. It is the coverage they give that generates the exposure our sponsors require . No Press, No Game.
As for our Managerial weakness, well I think we have had seven CEO's. That probably says a lot.

 

[WT2019]

I believe complacency has always played a vital role in our poor success, culture and recruitment/retention. It's the main obstacle and a huge factor to why we're simply unable to address some of our core issues and why some things look unfixable. I feel it's even at the forefront of our identity.

IMO it's why we often lose out on potential recruits. They probably question the overall professionalism of the club particularly because it's all they see, and then ultimately wouldn't feel like we're a club who'll be able to further advance their career. It's probably why rookies or reserve grade quality players are more likely to come here - as it's a given that we'll give them experience or an opportunity they may not get elsewhere.
Also, irregardless of their capability, it's why our coaches cannot transform or overturn the culture or success of the team.
Plus it's why most our former players with any ounce of talent easily transcend their game (when they sign at other clubs) and end up becoming dominant in the NRL, as no offence, they're surrounded by more competitive players who want to elevate the players around them.

It's interconnected to and cause for all our problem areas and is the main reason we receive the most media attention/scrutiny.
There's been far too many players who look disinterested and apathetic when at the club. Which is a pity as there's some really ambitious and great competitors currently in our team and we like to be doing everything right.

Some really good points.. IMO play for the jersey is past tense now unless the player(s) have risen through the grades. Think Penrith are the best example of a group of talented players sticking together. Can easily see the feeling within the majority of the playing group and like the new Delta strain, it’s highly infectious. We had that chance with Teddy, Brooks, Moses, Woods but for all the documented reasons, we blew it. Think players who are not “not home grown” are attracted by $ and career development and, initially, have no attachment or real care for the club or team. Same as young people entering the workforce just want to do the job, get paid and then look for the next opportunity . Corporate values are something that you find in the induction manual. The continuous pressure from the media of perennial 9th place and not played finals etc etc has caused the Board and senior management of the club to continually look for short term ‘fixes” and we can all see the results of this strategy. Think Demps posted about BJ and JTJ and the fact we have no real centers in KOE development level this year ..and it’s true . Same can be said for wingers so we just lost another year in positions that we are the weakest. If the employment of people like Sheens and Noddy is legitimate and not just a back door plan to displace Madge it tells us they are now working on a longer term strategy of junior development and we as supporters just got to be patient and have faith that players like Adam, Luke, Jacob, Stefan, Dane, Alex T, Alex S, Jake, Shawn are our future and support and invest in them and don’t stuff up like they did before. This year is gone so this should begin now .

Last word goes the the Chairman. He should leave his ego and mouth in his law office and learn that most times less said ..is better

 

[BAGNF05]

BJ, Roberts...

Saw some mentioning Ferguson, Nene McDonald

... we are better than this.

B b b ut these guys played good footy in the past, and where else but the Tigers will they reignite their careers?? Look at our long history of success of sparking players back into form.

Ferguson is about to go on a run probably deep into the finals and was an origin star pretty recently. He’s no BJ.

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

Brandon Smith is off contract 2022 when we are able WT'S should throw an offer to him up to a Max 1.1m a season say 4 year deal by that time Packers gone Mbyes gone.
Harry Grant maybe Storms starting hooker by then with Smith peed off if we pushed hard enough may get him for 2022

 

[TigerWest]

Desperation can be smelt miles away, so can Naivety and every Agent out there knows that we are Managerially weak. So we get played off other Clubs (like Canberra with the latest stumble) .
For those blaming the press for our image issues, grow up. Journo's are paid for stories and we just happen to provide them without ever meaning to do so (Naivety). It is also the Press that pay a Billion Dollars to the NRL for TV Rights etc. It is the coverage they give that generates the exposure our sponsors require . No Press, No Game.
As for our Managerial weakness, well I think we have had seven CEO's. That probably says a lot.

The management of this club was poor, but has come a long way in recent times and I don’t believe player managers consider us a soft touch at all any more.
What evidence do you have to say otherwise?

The game generates the interest for the press and the sponsors to get involved due to the enormous public interest, not the other way around.

Our current CEO has been with us for 5 years?
What happened before him is ancient history.

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

I'm spewin we missed TPJ and Mitchell too.

How do change this?
Where is the main issue that's holding us back from landing a big name?
Is Sheens going to help change perception like gus to the dogs?

Playing finals football 3 times in 21 years.

Yeah I know this...but TPJ knew this and still negotiated with us...seemed close to
signing too...Is there another factor atm stopping us landing a big name?

Honestly, I think that is the biggest problem.

What do you reckon is our biggest hurdle mate?

I really do believe it is our history as a club, 3 finals in 21 years is difficult to sell. Especially to the modern day player, a lot of young people today want instant gratification so it is difficult to find established players who are willing to go in for the long haul of maybe not playing finals for a couple of years.

I really do believe our best way out is to attack the best juniors from across the country, have the pathway systems to build those players into quality NRL players. To do this we need to attract the best 100-150 game players to the club that we can attract to support the youngsters coming through.

We can do this. So long as kids see players becoming stars by playing for us, they will choose us when they are 16-17. Because they know we will give them opportunities if they are good enough, and we will hopefully have a good track record over the next few years of turning kids into stars. If a good portion of the following group - Laurie, Blore, Simpkin, Simpkins, Seyfarth, Madden, Talau, Utoikamanu, Tuilagi, Kepaoa - turn into good NRL players, we will be an attractive place to play.

 

[facepalmer]

We are not an attractive club. News at 11. The reason? We're poorly run, disorganised, have a bad culture. Our best players have to scrape and beg for respect. Sometimes they leave and suddenly they're considered superstars. There are other clubs that struggle similarly for different, more permanent reasons.

North QLD - Location mostly.
Warriors - Also location unless you're a Kiwi.
Canberra - Location.

These clubs have had successful periods, none of which came from massive recruitment drives. In actuality let's look at the last 20 NRL premiership winning sides and see how many of these sides had genuine stars they threw the chequebook at.

2000 Brisbane Broncos - Almost entirely local products and very few star signings with the exception of Gorden Tallis and Luke Priddis.

2001 Newcastle Knights - A single sorta marquee signing but not really because he mostly fulfilled his potential once he got here, Ben Kennedy. The rest were Newcastle products or randoms.

2002 Sydney Roosters - Almost entirely mercenaries. A few guys they blooded that they found from the bush and Western Sydney + Bryan Fletcher and Luke Ricketson make up the rest. Names like Brett Mullins, Brad Fittler, Justin Hodges, Adrian Morley. A genuinely bought premiership.

2003 - Penrith Panthers - Surprisingly did have a few quality signings that weren't produced at Penrith including Wesser, Girdler, Campbell, Priddis plus a few other lesser lights that they signed. Smart signings though and still had a ton of developed talent.

2004 - Bulldogs - I suppose you could say they poached Andrew Ryan maybe.

2005 - Tigers - We know this one. Hobbled Scott Prince and a few other tried horses plus a bunch of Tigers produce.

2006 - Broncos - Brisbane products.

2007 - Storm* - Marquee signing Anthony Quinn?

2008 - Manly - Jamie Lyon coming off a stint in the ESL, Steven Bell and Josh Perry are the only signings at all. Could hardly call any of them marquee signings.

2009 - Storm* - Scrapheap Brett Finch the big signing.

2010 - Dragons - They bought this premiership by buying Wayne Bennett who dragged his son along with him as well as Neville Costigan. Aside from that, pretty much all development.

2011 - Manly - Pretty much no new signings since 2008 though they had developed some more talent that wasn't present in 2008 such as Foran and DCE. Impressive that they won a comp with an entirely different halves pairing a mere 3 seasons after they had already won one. Brought through a new generation of leaders without sacrificing performance. Orford and Lyon even still playing in the NRL at the time. Competence par excellence.

2012 - Storm* - The team that found it so difficult to compete with the salary cap they had to cheat even though they signed nobody because no RL players actually want to live in Melbourne (seriously they all move away the minute they retire). They had no new marquee signings. A few fringe guys they turned into quality like Waqa yeah. Widdop had come through to replace Scrapheap Finch. That's what they do, they still do it.

2013 - Roosters - Another bought premiership by the Roosters though to their credit they had developed a fair bit of talent to go along with poaching targets such as Michael Jennings, Sonny Bill Williams, Luke O'Donnell and James Maloney. Some of their own product that year included SKD, RTS, Jake Friend, Mitchell Pearce and Boyd Cordner among others. But the pattern is clear. The Roosters can't develop talent. They are pretty decent at poaching talent from elsewhere at young ages such as Minichiello (Sam Walker anyone), but they can't win comps unless they steal the best players in the NRL from other teams. They are literally the only club who actually can do this and it can only be one of two ways. They either cheat the cap, or players sign for unders because of the secret society they get to join that is worth more than money because they get to drink the blood of virgins on offshore superyacht parties. Or both. It is probably definitely both.

2014 - Souths - Kind of a miracle team tbqh. You could argue they bought it... but outside of GI it was mostly developed talent coupled with the Burgess acquisitions and Ben Te'o. England players are wildcards tbh. In actuality stacking your side with English forwards is a pretty good indicator of success when you look at what players like Adrian Morley, Gareth Ellis, James Graham and the Burgii have done for sides. But they still had Keary, Reynolds and Koro in the spine who were Souths development successes.

2015 - Cowboys - I mean, looking past the fact that the 2014, 15 and 16 premierships were literally the NRL rigging them for fairytales (don't pretend you weren't there), the Cowboys had signed zero marquee players from elsewhere at all.

2016 - Sharks - A little bit like that early century Penrith side. They actually did have a few buys, but it wasn't exactly marquee talent. Ben Barba was a bit of a scrapheap signing because of off field drama, Jack Bird was a youth poaching, Jimmy Maloney wasn't really rated that highly at the time. Tbh in a sliding doors universe we could have been the premiers that year had we landed Luke Lewis, picked right between Fifita and Groat and signed James Maloney or something. Long story short, a little more bought than usual.

2017 - Storm - Same old Storm. All their singing were just incredible coups like Addo-Carr, Curtis Scott, one dimensional players they get running through walls like Dale Finucane or wily vets like Will Chambers.

2018 - Roosters - Roosters gonna Rooster. They bought Tedesco, Keary, Cronk and Fergo and they bought another premiership.

2019 - Roosters - Add Brett Morris to replace Blake Ferguson and see above.

2020.- Storm - Paps (youth coup), Vuni (talent ID), Olam (talent ID), Brenko (scrapheap), JAC (coup), Munster (talent ID), Hughes (scrapheap), Bromwich (talent ID) etc. etc. etc.

What does this all say.

Well, very very occasionally a team wins a premiership by filling out their roster with good quality first graders they sign from elsewhere. In almost all cases it gets them one premiership and is followed by a lull. This heavily indicates that the teams that do this (02 Panthers, 14 Souths, 16 Sharks) redline very hard to do so and probably also heavily backload contracts sacrificing future seasons. Which is a Roosters special. They don't do it as good as the Roosters because the Roosters have a Roosters quality about them that is some mystery and I solved it, it's actually Nick Politis is Satan. Anywho point being, the Roosters can and do buy premierships. They are the only side that seemingly can just decide to go get the best player in the NRL and then win a comp in doing so. Every other team that does anything like this ends up overpaying in doing so, ruins their squad depth and they don't succeed.

Almost every premier in the last 20 years were strategically developed squads comprised mostly of junior talent they themselves brought through, with a very small sprinkling of quality but not top signings from outside. Wildcard of English forwards winning comps.

We are not the Roosters. We don't have a secret society at our club. We cannot buy our way to a premiership. We CAN and absolutely SHOULD develop our way there. Sheens knows that and knows how to rebuild our pathways. I do hope that is exactly what he is here to do. Because that is in fact our strength. With the Centre of Excellence coming we will at least finally be able to compete on an even playing field in those terms, but that'll only bring us up to square with Parramatta and Penrith. It won't make us the Roosters. Hartigan is an actual genius. There is no point making overpaid marquee signings. If your ultimate goal is to come 4th or 5th every year I suppose you could do that. Say hello to the Parramatta Eels for the last several years. If you want sustained, continual actual performance. Just be patient, set your development pathways, get your off field right, get your coaching right and it will come. So it didn't work with the "Big 4". It doesn't matter. One misfire doesn't offset the data. The results do not lie. We do not buy our way out of this. We tried that, it was dumb. Stop complaining about recruitment woes. We are active in the market, we have our prices, we are looking for value, we are unwilling to compromise. This is a good thing. Don't let the likes of James Hooper and other fellow numpties psychologically manipulate you into adding to the beating drum that leads to nowhere.

Our 2022 Roster has good composition. It might not win a comp, but it patterns to be quite typical of the rosters of many of the teams that have won comps over the last 20 years. Except Mbye we have to get rid of him so bad, and definitely don't sign the CO for Joey Leilua. The rest is good. More of the same.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Brandon Smith is off contract 2022 when we are able WT'S should throw an offer to him up to a Max 1.1m a season say 4 year deal by that time Packers gone Mbyes gone.
Harry Grant maybe Storms starting hooker by then with Smith peed off if we pushed hard enough may get him for 2022

agree Brandon Smith needs to be the big target

 

[PJ_]

What makes everyone so sure that the current roster will play for a different coach...

Shouldn't they want to play for personal performance and some pride in the jersey they put on..

Sure the Dogs recruitment has been out of this world on paper as was the Knights a few year back..it's got them nowhere really..basically they went away from junior development to trying to buy success..hasn't really worked out yet..doesn't look like it's going too

It's yet to be seen if it does at the Dogs..could work..could flop massively..

Building from within does produce results if done properly.. You develop Jake Simpkin to be our Harry Grant, Stefano Utoikamanu to be our Payne Hass, Tuki Simpkins to be our Pangia Jnr and so on.. Sure that doesn't mean if quality becomes available you don't have a crack or even pay overs if they are exceptional quality Brandon Smith like..

Buying comps has never been as successful as building them..

Our club is great at finding and developing promising juniors. Unfortunately we are terrible at retaining them

 

[tony soprano]

I believe complacency has always played a vital role in our poor success, culture and recruitment/retention. It's the main obstacle and a huge factor to why we're simply unable to address some of our core issues and why some things look unfixable. I feel it's even at the forefront of our identity.

IMO it's why we often lose out on potential recruits. They probably question the overall professionalism of the club particularly because it's all they see, and then ultimately wouldn't feel like we're a club who'll be able to further advance their career. It's probably why rookies or reserve grade quality players are more likely to come here - as it's a given that we'll give them experience or an opportunity they may not get elsewhere.
Also, irregardless of their capability, it's why our coaches cannot transform or overturn the culture or success of the team.
Plus it's why most our former players with any ounce of talent easily transcend their game (when they sign at other clubs) and end up becoming dominant in the NRL, as no offence, they're surrounded by more competitive players who want to elevate the players around them.

It's interconnected to and cause for all our problem areas and is the main reason we receive the most media attention/scrutiny.
There's been far too many players who look disinterested and apathetic when at the club. Which is a pity as there's some really ambitious and great competitors currently in our team and we like to be doing everything right.


Some really good points.. IMO play for the jersey is past tense now unless the player(s) have risen through the grades. Think Penrith are the best example of a group of talented players sticking together. Can easily see the feeling within the majority of the playing group and like the new Delta strain, it’s highly infectious. We had that chance with Teddy, Brooks, Moses, Woods but for all the documented reasons, we blew it. Think players who are not “not home grown” are attracted by $ and career development and, initially, have no attachment or real care for the club or team. Same as young people entering the workforce just want to do the job, get paid and then look for the next opportunity . Corporate values are something that you find in the induction manual. The continuous pressure from the media of perennial 9th place and not played finals etc etc has caused the Board and senior management of the club to continually look for short term ‘fixes” and we can all see the results of this strategy. Think Demps posted about BJ and JTJ and the fact we have no real centers in KOE development level this year ..and it’s true . Same can be said for wingers so we just lost another year in positions that we are the weakest. If the employment of people like Sheens and Noddy is legitimate and not just a back door plan to displace Madge it tells us they are now working on a longer term strategy of junior development and we as supporters just got to be patient and have faith that players like Adam, Luke, Jacob, Stefan, Dane, Alex T, Alex S, Jake, Shawn are our future and support and invest in them and don’t stuff up like they did before. This year is gone so this should begin now .

Last word goes the the Chairman. He should leave his ego and mouth in his law office and learn that most times less said ..is better

Surprised to see paragraph at the end there

 

[tony soprano]

We are not an attractive club. News at 11. The reason? We're poorly run, disorganised, have a bad culture. Our best players have to scrape and beg for respect. Sometimes they leave and suddenly they're considered superstars. There are other clubs that struggle similarly for different, more permanent reasons.

North QLD - Location mostly.
Warriors - Also location unless you're a Kiwi.
Canberra - Location.

These clubs have had successful periods, none of which came from massive recruitment drives. In actuality let's look at the last 20 NRL premiership winning sides and see how many of these sides had genuine stars they threw the chequebook at.

2000 Brisbane Broncos - Almost entirely local products and very few star signings with the exception of Gorden Tallis and Luke Priddis.

2001 Newcastle Knights - A single sorta marquee signing but not really because he mostly fulfilled his potential once he got here, Ben Kennedy. The rest were Newcastle products or randoms.

2002 Sydney Roosters - Almost entirely mercenaries. A few guys they blooded that they found from the bush and Western Sydney + Bryan Fletcher and Luke Ricketson make up the rest. Names like Brett Mullins, Brad Fittler, Justin Hodges, Adrian Morley. A genuinely bought premiership.

2003 - Penrith Panthers - Surprisingly did have a few quality signings that weren't produced at Penrith including Wesser, Girdler, Campbell, Priddis plus a few other lesser lights that they signed. Smart signings though and still had a ton of developed talent.

2004 - Bulldogs - I suppose you could say they poached Andrew Ryan maybe.

2005 - Tigers - We know this one. Hobbled Scott Prince and a few other tried horses plus a bunch of Tigers produce.

2006 - Broncos - Brisbane products.

2007 - Storm* - Marquee signing Anthony Quinn?

2008 - Manly - Jamie Lyon coming off a stint in the ESL, Steven Bell and Josh Perry are the only signings at all. Could hardly call any of them marquee signings.

2009 - Storm* - Scrapheap Brett Finch the big signing.

2010 - Dragons - They bought this premiership by buying Wayne Bennett who dragged his son along with him as well as Neville Costigan. Aside from that, pretty much all development.

2011 - Manly - Pretty much no new signings since 2008 though they had developed some more talent that wasn't present in 2008 such as Foran and DCE. Impressive that they won a comp with an entirely different halves pairing a mere 3 seasons after they had already won one. Brought through a new generation of leaders without sacrificing performance. Orford and Lyon even still playing in the NRL at the time. Competence par excellence.

2012 - Storm* - The team that found it so difficult to compete with the salary cap they had to cheat even though they signed nobody because no RL players actually want to live in Melbourne (seriously they all move away the minute they retire). They had no new marquee signings. A few fringe guys they turned into quality like Waqa yeah. Widdop had come through to replace Scrapheap Finch. That's what they do, they still do it.

2013 - Roosters - Another bought premiership by the Roosters though to their credit they had developed a fair bit of talent to go along with poaching targets such as Michael Jennings, Sonny Bill Williams, Luke O'Donnell and James Maloney. Some of their own product that year included SKD, RTS, Jake Friend, Mitchell Pearce and Boyd Cordner among others. But the pattern is clear. The Roosters can't develop talent. They are pretty decent at poaching talent from elsewhere at young ages such as Minichiello (Sam Walker anyone), but they can't win comps unless they steal the best players in the NRL from other teams. They are literally the only club who actually can do this and it can only be one of two ways. They either cheat the cap, or players sign for unders because of the secret society they get to join that is worth more than money because they get to drink the blood of virgins on offshore superyacht parties. Or both. It is probably definitely both.

2014 - Souths - Kind of a miracle team tbqh. You could argue they bought it... but outside of GI it was mostly developed talent coupled with the Burgess acquisitions and Ben Te'o. England players are wildcards tbh. In actuality stacking your side with English forwards is a pretty good indicator of success when you look at what players like Adrian Morley, Gareth Ellis, James Graham and the Burgii have done for sides. But they still had Keary, Reynolds and Koro in the spine who were Souths development successes.

2015 - Cowboys - I mean, looking past the fact that the 2014, 15 and 16 premierships were literally the NRL rigging them for fairytales (don't pretend you weren't there), the Cowboys had signed zero marquee players from elsewhere at all.

2016 - Sharks - A little bit like that early century Penrith side. They actually did have a few buys, but it wasn't exactly marquee talent. Ben Barba was a bit of a scrapheap signing because of off field drama, Jack Bird was a youth poaching, Jimmy Maloney wasn't really rated that highly at the time. Tbh in a sliding doors universe we could have been the premiers that year had we landed Luke Lewis, picked right between Fifita and Groat and signed James Maloney or something. Long story short, a little more bought than usual.

2017 - Storm - Same old Storm. All their singing were just incredible coups like Addo-Carr, Curtis Scott, one dimensional players they get running through walls like Dale Finucane or wily vets like Will Chambers.

2018 - Roosters - Roosters gonna Rooster. They bought Tedesco, Keary, Cronk and Fergo and they bought another premiership.

2019 - Roosters - Add Brett Morris to replace Blake Ferguson and see above.

2020.- Storm - Paps (youth coup), Vuni (talent ID), Olam (talent ID), Brenko (scrapheap), JAC (coup), Munster (talent ID), Hughes (scrapheap), Bromwich (talent ID) etc. etc. etc.

What does this all say.

Well, very very occasionally a team wins a premiership by filling out their roster with good quality first graders they sign from elsewhere. In almost all cases it gets them one premiership and is followed by a lull. This heavily indicates that the teams that do this (02 Panthers, 14 Souths, 16 Sharks) redline very hard to do so and probably also heavily backload contracts sacrificing future seasons. Which is a Roosters special. They don't do it as good as the Roosters because the Roosters have a Roosters quality about them that is some mystery and I solved it, it's actually Nick Politis is Satan. Anywho point being, the Roosters can and do buy premierships. They are the only side that seemingly can just decide to go get the best player in the NRL and then win a comp in doing so. Every other team that does anything like this ends up overpaying in doing so, ruins their squad depth and they don't succeed.

Almost every premier in the last 20 years were strategically developed squads comprised mostly of junior talent they themselves brought through, with a very small sprinkling of quality but not top signings from outside. Wildcard of English forwards winning comps.

We are not the Roosters. We don't have a secret society at our club. We cannot buy our way to a premiership. We CAN and absolutely SHOULD develop our way there. Sheens knows that and knows how to rebuild our pathways. I do hope that is exactly what he is here to do. Because that is in fact our strength. With the Centre of Excellence coming we will at least finally be able to compete on an even playing field in those terms, but that'll only bring us up to square with Parramatta and Penrith. It won't make us the Roosters. Hartigan is an actual genius. There is no point making overpaid marquee signings. If your ultimate goal is to come 4th or 5th every year I suppose you could do that. Say hello to the Parramatta Eels for the last several years. If you want sustained, continual actual performance. Just be patient, set your development pathways, get your off field right, get your coaching right and it will come. So it didn't work with the "Big 4". It doesn't matter. One misfire doesn't offset the data. The results do not lie. We do not buy our way out of this. We tried that, it was dumb. Stop complaining about recruitment woes. We are active in the market, we have our prices, we are looking for value, we are unwilling to compromise. This is a good thing. Don't let the likes of James Hooper and other fellow numpties psychologically manipulate you into adding to the beating drum that leads to nowhere.

Our 2022 Roster has good composition. It might not win a comp, but it patterns to be quite typical of the rosters of many of the teams that have won comps over the last 20 years. Except Mbye we have to get rid of him so bad, and definitely don't sign the CO for Joey Leilua. The rest is good. More of the same.

Wow

 

[facepalmer]

Brandon Smith is off contract 2022 when we are able WT'S should throw an offer to him up to a Max 1.1m a season say 4 year deal by that time Packers gone Mbyes gone.
Harry Grant maybe Storms starting hooker by then with Smith peed off if we pushed hard enough may get him for 2022

agree Brandon Smith needs to be the big target

Nope. Brandon Smith needs to stay at Melbourne or go to the Roosters or his days winning comps are over unless he goes to somewhere on under which nobody does.

No player of his quality goes to another club and wins a comp. I literally mapped it out in the posts above.

We only get Brandon Smith on roster crippling overs. The only reason you make a signing like that is if you are just that desperate to make the finals and get mopped up week 1 just so we can say we finally made it there.

 

[facepalmer]

I mapped out the way I would handle recruitment strategy in a post back in April. I actually think now I'd probably even just completely ditch targeting marquees at all because our club is forced to pay premiums for any of them if we want them and we just really shouldn't do it. Maybe one day we can land marquee talent at market value but not while our club is in the shape it is.

https://weststigersforum.com/topic/32217/recruitment-strategy-for-2021-and-beyond?_=1626863349472

 

[Geo]

What makes everyone so sure that the current roster will play for a different coach...

Shouldn't they want to play for personal performance and some pride in the jersey they put on..

Sure the Dogs recruitment has been out of this world on paper as was the Knights a few year back..it's got them nowhere really..basically they went away from junior development to trying to buy success..hasn't really worked out yet..doesn't look like it's going too

It's yet to be seen if it does at the Dogs..could work..could flop massively..

Building from within does produce results if done properly.. You develop Jake Simpkin to be our Harry Grant, Stefano Utoikamanu to be our Payne Hass, Tuki Simpkins to be our Pangia Jnr and so on.. Sure that doesn't mean if quality becomes available you don't have a crack or even pay overs if they are exceptional quality Brandon Smith like..

Buying comps has never been as successful as building them..

Our club is great at finding and developing promising juniors. Unfortunately we are terrible at retaining them

Tim Sheens didn't have that issue in retaining them... We were only terrible through the Potter/Taylor/Voldamort years..

That needs to change clearly they are putting measures in place to rectify those shortfalls..

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

no more overpaid pensioners.

 

[BAGNF05]

We are not an attractive club. News at 11. The reason? We're poorly run, disorganised, have a bad culture. Our best players have to scrape and beg for respect. Sometimes they leave and suddenly they're considered superstars. There are other clubs that struggle similarly for different, more permanent reasons.

North QLD - Location mostly.
Warriors - Also location unless you're a Kiwi.
Canberra - Location.

These clubs have had successful periods, none of which came from massive recruitment drives. In actuality let's look at the last 20 NRL premiership winning sides and see how many of these sides had genuine stars they threw the chequebook at.

2000 Brisbane Broncos - Almost entirely local products and very few star signings with the exception of Gorden Tallis and Luke Priddis.

2001 Newcastle Knights - A single sorta marquee signing but not really because he mostly fulfilled his potential once he got here, Ben Kennedy. The rest were Newcastle products or randoms.

2002 Sydney Roosters - Almost entirely mercenaries. A few guys they blooded that they found from the bush and Western Sydney + Bryan Fletcher and Luke Ricketson make up the rest. Names like Brett Mullins, Brad Fittler, Justin Hodges, Adrian Morley. A genuinely bought premiership.

2003 - Penrith Panthers - Surprisingly did have a few quality signings that weren't produced at Penrith including Wesser, Girdler, Campbell, Priddis plus a few other lesser lights that they signed. Smart signings though and still had a ton of developed talent.

2004 - Bulldogs - I suppose you could say they poached Andrew Ryan maybe.

2005 - Tigers - We know this one. Hobbled Scott Prince and a few other tried horses plus a bunch of Tigers produce.

2006 - Broncos - Brisbane products.

2007 - Storm* - Marquee signing Anthony Quinn?

2008 - Manly - Jamie Lyon coming off a stint in the ESL, Steven Bell and Josh Perry are the only signings at all. Could hardly call any of them marquee signings.

2009 - Storm* - Scrapheap Brett Finch the big signing.

2010 - Dragons - They bought this premiership by buying Wayne Bennett who dragged his son along with him as well as Neville Costigan. Aside from that, pretty much all development.

2011 - Manly - Pretty much no new signings since 2008 though they had developed some more talent that wasn't present in 2008 such as Foran and DCE. Impressive that they won a comp with an entirely different halves pairing a mere 3 seasons after they had already won one. Brought through a new generation of leaders without sacrificing performance. Orford and Lyon even still playing in the NRL at the time. Competence par excellence.

2012 - Storm* - The team that found it so difficult to compete with the salary cap they had to cheat even though they signed nobody because no RL players actually want to live in Melbourne (seriously they all move away the minute they retire). They had no new marquee signings. A few fringe guys they turned into quality like Waqa yeah. Widdop had come through to replace Scrapheap Finch. That's what they do, they still do it.

2013 - Roosters - Another bought premiership by the Roosters though to their credit they had developed a fair bit of talent to go along with poaching targets such as Michael Jennings, Sonny Bill Williams, Luke O'Donnell and James Maloney. Some of their own product that year included SKD, RTS, Jake Friend, Mitchell Pearce and Boyd Cordner among others. But the pattern is clear. The Roosters can't develop talent. They are pretty decent at poaching talent from elsewhere at young ages such as Minichiello (Sam Walker anyone), but they can't win comps unless they steal the best players in the NRL from other teams. They are literally the only club who actually can do this and it can only be one of two ways. They either cheat the cap, or players sign for unders because of the secret society they get to join that is worth more than money because they get to drink the blood of virgins on offshore superyacht parties. Or both. It is probably definitely both.

2014 - Souths - Kind of a miracle team tbqh. You could argue they bought it... but outside of GI it was mostly developed talent coupled with the Burgess acquisitions and Ben Te'o. England players are wildcards tbh. In actuality stacking your side with English forwards is a pretty good indicator of success when you look at what players like Adrian Morley, Gareth Ellis, James Graham and the Burgii have done for sides. But they still had Keary, Reynolds and Koro in the spine who were Souths development successes.

2015 - Cowboys - I mean, looking past the fact that the 2014, 15 and 16 premierships were literally the NRL rigging them for fairytales (don't pretend you weren't there), the Cowboys had signed zero marquee players from elsewhere at all.

2016 - Sharks - A little bit like that early century Penrith side. They actually did have a few buys, but it wasn't exactly marquee talent. Ben Barba was a bit of a scrapheap signing because of off field drama, Jack Bird was a youth poaching, Jimmy Maloney wasn't really rated that highly at the time. Tbh in a sliding doors universe we could have been the premiers that year had we landed Luke Lewis, picked right between Fifita and Groat and signed James Maloney or something. Long story short, a little more bought than usual.

2017 - Storm - Same old Storm. All their singing were just incredible coups like Addo-Carr, Curtis Scott, one dimensional players they get running through walls like Dale Finucane or wily vets like Will Chambers.

2018 - Roosters - Roosters gonna Rooster. They bought Tedesco, Keary, Cronk and Fergo and they bought another premiership.

2019 - Roosters - Add Brett Morris to replace Blake Ferguson and see above.

2020.- Storm - Paps (youth coup), Vuni (talent ID), Olam (talent ID), Brenko (scrapheap), JAC (coup), Munster (talent ID), Hughes (scrapheap), Bromwich (talent ID) etc. etc. etc.

What does this all say.

Well, very very occasionally a team wins a premiership by filling out their roster with good quality first graders they sign from elsewhere. In almost all cases it gets them one premiership and is followed by a lull. This heavily indicates that the teams that do this (02 Panthers, 14 Souths, 16 Sharks) redline very hard to do so and probably also heavily backload contracts sacrificing future seasons. Which is a Roosters special. They don't do it as good as the Roosters because the Roosters have a Roosters quality about them that is some mystery and I solved it, it's actually Nick Politis is Satan. Anywho point being, the Roosters can and do buy premierships. They are the only side that seemingly can just decide to go get the best player in the NRL and then win a comp in doing so. Every other team that does anything like this ends up overpaying in doing so, ruins their squad depth and they don't succeed.

Almost every premier in the last 20 years were strategically developed squads comprised mostly of junior talent they themselves brought through, with a very small sprinkling of quality but not top signings from outside. Wildcard of English forwards winning comps.

We are not the Roosters. We don't have a secret society at our club. We cannot buy our way to a premiership. We CAN and absolutely SHOULD develop our way there. Sheens knows that and knows how to rebuild our pathways. I do hope that is exactly what he is here to do. Because that is in fact our strength. With the Centre of Excellence coming we will at least finally be able to compete on an even playing field in those terms, but that'll only bring us up to square with Parramatta and Penrith. It won't make us the Roosters. Hartigan is an actual genius. There is no point making overpaid marquee signings. If your ultimate goal is to come 4th or 5th every year I suppose you could do that. Say hello to the Parramatta Eels for the last several years. If you want sustained, continual actual performance. Just be patient, set your development pathways, get your off field right, get your coaching right and it will come. So it didn't work with the "Big 4". It doesn't matter. One misfire doesn't offset the data. The results do not lie. We do not buy our way out of this. We tried that, it was dumb. Stop complaining about recruitment woes. We are active in the market, we have our prices, we are looking for value, we are unwilling to compromise. This is a good thing. Don't let the likes of James Hooper and other fellow numpties psychologically manipulate you into adding to the beating drum that leads to nowhere.

Our 2022 Roster has good composition. It might not win a comp, but it patterns to be quite typical of the rosters of many of the teams that have won comps over the last 20 years. Except Mbye we have to get rid of him so bad, and definitely don't sign the CO for Joey Leilua. The rest is good. More of the same.

Monster post jeez. I’d take 4th or 5th every year.

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

happy to watch a young home grown loss to sally cap rort