Referendum 2023

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AmericanHistoryX said:
Did you know that Diabetes is the biggest killer of Aboriginal people? I didn't. They played the ad a few moments ago. In the NRL coverage. Why didn't we know that before? Why is it important all of a sudden now? Super Bowl commercials eat your heart out. Gotta love this shite!!!!! Pump it up!!! Cathy Freeman with a grandstand named after her today. What about Larry Corowa? You gotta love this media frenzy before the Vote. It will only get bigger.
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There was a huge push 10 years or more ago up here to replace soft drinks with water. It gets bloody hot and remote communities were cooling down drinking lots and lots of fizzy shit.
 
AmericanHistoryX said:
Did you know that Diabetes is the biggest killer of Aboriginal people? I didn't. They played the ad a few moments ago. In the NRL coverage. Why didn't we know that before? Why is it important all of a sudden now? Super Bowl commercials eat your heart out. Gotta love this shite!!!!! Pump it up!!! Cathy Freeman with a grandstand named after her today. What about Larry Corowa? You gotta love this media frenzy before the Vote. It will only get bigger.
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I like your attitude.

Have you heard about this https://www.closingthegap.gov.au/ ?

My understanding is that it is well recognized that Indigenous people on average in Australia do not currently have the same quality of life in comparison to the average Australian.

I didn't know diabetes is the biggest killer of Aboriginal people ? Why is the case ? Is it possible to help this situation ?
 
AmericanHistoryX said:
AmericanHistoryX said:
Why does there have to be a referendum? Why cant they just help them? Simple. Why is it so difficult to understand this?
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A government document. Pass.
Ask them. They have billions. But now the timing is perfect. Diet Coke Anyone?
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Think we need a royal commission to work out how much of the 50 billion dollars actually leaves Canberra where the activities decide who gets what , maybe audit them to see how much ends up in there pockets , because that amount of money should have 2-3 per cent of the population living in easy street
 
Ive regularly made the comment here that IMO they should form "The Voice" under legislation, not enshrined int he Constitution and the correct and logical response that I totally understand from the yes side is it needs to be enshrined in the Consitution so it cant be arbitrarily sacked like ATSIC...fine makes sense.

But....there are two sides to that coin. ATSIC wasnt abolished because Howard didnt like blackfullas, it was abolished because it was corrupt as all hell and not serving indigenous people. So lets look at that side of the coin. What happens if ...God forbid "The Voice" was corrupted by bad actors within it? Enshrined in our constitution?
 
Mistymuzzle said:
Ive regularly made the comment here that IMO they should form "The Voice" under legislation, not enshrined int he Constitution and the correct and logical response that I totally understand from the yes side is it needs to be enshrined in the Consitution so it cant be arbitrarily sacked like ATSIC...fine makes sense.

But....there are two sides to that coin. ATSIC wasnt abolished because Howard didnt like blackfullas, it was abolished because it was corrupt as all hell and not serving indigenous people. So lets look at that side of the coin. What happens if ...God forbid "The Voice" was corrupted by bad actors within it? Enshrined in our constitution?
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Then they get voted out,just like our politicians do
 
Mistymuzzle said:
Really? I havent seen the answers , here or elsewhere.....Can you fill in the blanks?

“We don’t know how many people will sit on the Voice.


“We don’t know if they will be appointed or if they will be elected.


“We don’t know if the Voice will have a headquarters in Canberra.


“We don’t know if the Voice needs its own support staff.


“We don’t know if it will have an annual budget.


“We don’t know if members of the Voice will be paid.


“If members of the Voice are divided on a particular issue, we don’t know which opinion the government will listen to.


“If the Voice is to advise on policies impacting Indigenous Aussies, we don’t know what law or policy doesn’t impact Indigenous Australians.


“We don’t know if some issues are off-limits to the Voice.


“We don’t know if the government is expected to consult the Voice on all major decisions.


“We don’t know if the Voice has to be consulted on routine changes to legislation that affects Indigenous
people.


“We don’t know if the Treasurer is expected to brief the Voice on what’s included in an upcoming budget.


“We don’t know what constitutes proper notice for the Voice to consider each issue that comes before it.


“We don’t know what would be regarded as sufficient information to provide the Voice so it can make informed representation.


“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to respond to each proposal in a set period of time.


“We don’t know if the Voice would have to be heard before a decision is made.


“We don’t know if the Voice will speak directly to ministers or individual departments.


“We don’t know if public servants are expected to consult the Voice because they are part of the executive government.


“We don’t know what happens if the Voice is consistently ignored and whether this may lead to a legal challenge.


“We don’t know which former High Court judge is going to be proven right when it comes to potential legal issues.



“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to achieve targets when it comes to closing the gap.


“We don’t know if the Voice can better direct the billions of dollars we’re already spending on Indigenous affairs.


“We don’t know how the Voice will interact with other Indigenous bodies.


“We don’t know if the Voice will make representations on issues such as changing the flag or moving the date of Australia Day.


“And we don’t know if the Voice is going to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians.”
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I'm as left as they come. Anything that is packaged as helping the vulnerable should be the simplest decision I can make. When the referendum was put forth I thought "ok, vote yes move on".
I dont share the fears of others that a Voice will lead to an unrecognisable Australia of land disputes and sovereignty.
I still want to vote yes on the basis that heck it's gotta be better than the status quo for Indigenous peoples. But, how can I any faith that it will when not only are these questions unanswered, I dont think the Government has any idea of the answers themselves.
I still perplexed that the Yes campaign has been so poorly managed that thks lefty is leaning 'No'.
 
gregjm87 said:
I'm as left as they come. Anything that is packaged as helping the vulnerable should be the simplest decision I can make. When the referendum was put forth I thought "ok, vote yes move on".
I dont share the fears of others that a Voice will lead to an unrecognisable Australia of land disputes and sovereignty.
I still want to vote yes on the basis that heck it's gotta be better than the status quo for Indigenous peoples. But, how can I any faith that it will when not only are these questions unanswered, I dont think the Government has any idea of the answers themselves.
I still perplexed that the Yes campaign has been so poorly managed that thks lefty is leaning 'No'.
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They should have delayed it until they worked all this stuff out.
I’d like to know why the big push has been put on the First Nations Referendum Working Group to have it before they are ready.
 
gregjm87 said:
I'm as left as they come. Anything that is packaged as helping the vulnerable should be the simplest decision I can make. When the referendum was put forth I thought "ok, vote yes move on".
I dont share the fears of others that a Voice will lead to an unrecognisable Australia of land disputes and sovereignty.
I still want to vote yes on the basis that heck it's gotta be better than the status quo for Indigenous peoples. But, how can I any faith that it will when not only are these questions unanswered, I dont think the Government has any idea of the answers themselves.
I still perplexed that the Yes campaign has been so poorly managed that thks lefty is leaning 'No'.
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lefty is leaning 'No'

With far right extremist language like that, you might get labeled racist and/or ignorant by the 'tolerant' left.
 
If Jacinta Price's comments about intergenerational trauma don't tell you everything about how clouded her views are due to her political allegiances nothing will.

She has totally thrown those aboriginal people in remote and rural areas she claims to represent under the bus with those comments.

I think if you asked her that question 6 months ago the answer would have been very different.
 
Wearyfan22 said:
If Jacinta Price's comments about intergenerational trauma don't tell you everything about how clouded her views are due to her political allegiances nothing will.

She has totally thrown those aboriginal people in remote and rural areas she claims to represent under the bus with those comments.

I think if you asked her that question 6 months ago the answer would have been very different.
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Truth hurts.
 
Wearyfan22 said:
If Jacinta Price's comments about intergenerational trauma don't tell you everything about how clouded her views are due to her political allegiances nothing will.

She has totally thrown those aboriginal people in remote and rural areas she claims to represent under the bus with those comments.

I think if you asked her that question 6 months ago the answer would have been very different.
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Claiming colonialism was a net positive for
indigenous when they were slaughtered, put
in chains and had their children taken away
from them was crazy. Equating the hardships
suffered by indigenous to that of the settlers
was the coup de grâce. What a peice of work
 
Kaito said:
Claiming colonialism was a net positive for
indigenous when they were slaughtered, put
in chains and had their children taken away
from them was crazy. Equating the hardships
suffered by indigenous to that of the settlers
was the coup de grâce. What a peice of work
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The comparison to convicts arriving on the first fleet is childish. The is no comparison to 200+ years of systematic attempts at genocide, the taking of land, removal of children, a lack of recognition of even being human up until halfway through last century. I'd be stunned if that is the predominant view in the majority of mainstream Australia (people who are choosing to vote no included).
 
Wearyfan22 said:
The comparison to convicts arriving on the first fleet is childish.
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I was going to post this. It's highly immature. It really is.

She could have said they were locked up in chains and genocide occurred and those weren't good things but instead she has to go full moron style and paint a one sided idiotic picture.

I remember years ago watching that young black woman who is a cooker right wing darling state that the problem with black people in America was that they were given canteen lunches for free. That is cooker material.

It's just dumb and only someone who is really immature would state this stuff.

These are big complex issues and trying to break it down to some harsh simplistic idea that lays blame on the people who are clearly struggling is highly immature.

Just to clarify what a cooker is:-https://cookerpedia.org/wiki/Cooker
 
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