Referendum 2023

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Again, more context, leading to the question she was talking about government bodies and hand outs do not do anything for the indigenous community and only accelerate a victim mentality.

Is this a logical fallacy ? It's definitely blaming the victim. It's also definitely providing a black and white opinion when the issue isn't black and white.

I am really against people playing victims. I think people in general should look at themselves first rather than state society is against them and that is why they aren't doing well. I don't like that attitude in general.

I'm also a fan of government providing services for the community such as schools and public housing and roads.

It's not a black and white issue in my eyes.

Like you said she lives and in NT and I am going to assume has more ground knowledge then the sensitive blokes on here.

Where she comes from has nothing at all to do with her opinion being valid. It's the same as any person providing their opinion. If an Indigenous person said via the voice they won't be happy until they get paid out millions of dollars I wouldn't be supportive of that action.

I'd add that I don't know who these sensitive people you are talking about are ? You mentioned tantrums previously. Who are these people ? I assume I have them on ignore because I don't see the tantrums in the posts that you are responding too.
 
My ancestors arrived as convicts. They finished their sentences and took up farming land that was handed down through 3 generations to the present.

We know the story of our family. We have litteraly zero information about peoples who were on the land before us. They and thier history was erased.

The land was handed down as accumulated inherited wealth. Aboriginal people continued to experience the killings of family and were forced without property onto missions where they could not maintain wealth or hand it to children etc etc etc.

My childhood and education was financed by inherited wealth that started as land for free.

For Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, as an official senior leader of the No campaign to compare the Ingidenous experience to convicts, and for senior members of the Liberal/National Party to laugh at a joke about intergenerational trauma, is scrapping the bottom of the barrel, diabolical. Ditto saying there are no ongoing impacts of Colonisation (see my personal above story).

Many No supporters here have rightly and clearly pointed out concerning issues with the Yes campaign. If they cannot see that those elements of Price's speach to be a bizzare opinion that right thinking people would see as untrue, and just wrong, then it distracts from the sense of objective thinking of the No supporters and diminishes their arguments.
Politics is win at all costs. Both sides have agendas and will say anything to get the result they want. Prices comments diminishes the no argument definitely. They don’t achieve anything. Just like prominent yes lobbyers saying no voters are racist.

Unfortunately the outcome of the referendum is that we will be as divided as ever as a nation.

You made the most of your life you inherited. you could easily run off the rails and lose everything in life. You aren’t responsible for past atrocities. We live in a country where if you are disadvantaged there are already infinite open doors to opportunities if you chose to walk through them. (I’m not saying it’s easy to do so. Life isn’t easy) Voting either way won’t change anything at an individual level.
 
Who votes them in? How often?

Parliament decides that as they have always done on any refererendum issue.Whoever is eligable to vote the voice in will vote them in and once again Parliament decides who is eligable and how often it needs to be done.We decide if we want to change the constitution that is all
 
You made the most of your life you inherited. you could easily run off the rails and lose everything in life. You aren’t responsible for past atrocities. We live in a country where if you are disadvantaged there are already infinite open doors to opportunities if you chose to walk through them. (I’m not saying it’s easy to do so. Life isn’t easy) Voting either way won’t change anything at an individual level.

I'm voting yes but I completely agree with you. I think life (mostly) is what you make of it. A lot of it is simply your perspective. If you have lower expectations you can be happy on less. You also have to make an effort to improve your life.

This is something that I think needs to be stated to everyone including Indigenous people. You cannot believe that a referendum or a new government or whatever will make your life better. You make your life better via doing positive things day in and day out.

I'll add that I think and I have good reason to think (I'm reading an academic text on a related topic) that about 20% of people will always cry victim. This is not directed towards indigenous people. I believe that this is what is happening typically whenever you hear someone complain that they are discriminated against.
 
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Like whats been happening 2 Prof. Marcia Langton?
Being a hypocrite as usual, and im not white pal lol.
Not everyone voting yes is a leftie activist y'know.
I don't know what happened to her but a friends kid was in a class of hers at uni and she has alot of hate inside her and if your a student of hers you can not have a discussion with her about opinions that are not hers it's a one way street will be interesting to see what happens

If yes gets up enjoying paying to go to public land and parks you will pay a tax in your rates and the legal battles will be epic

But what I have noticed is none of the yes campaign has said thankyou to the Anzacs or building understructure in the country if it was not for captain Cook this place would be like Papua New Guinea of just a part of China by now

I absolutely hate race base politics it's B/S and driven by hate and insecurity
 
Parliament decides that as they have always done on any refererendum issue.Whoever is eligable to vote the voice in will vote them in and once again Parliament decides who is eligable and how often it needs to be done.We decide if we want to change the constitution that is all

So you dont know? So what happens if the Voice becomes as corrupt as ATSIC did, and the people who vote them in are the ones who benefit?
 
Lets all vote Yes. Since the new parliament, everyone seems to get a better chance in life, interest rates low, affordable housing, cheap rent, cameras everywhere, Coles and Woolworth body cams - watching us to keep us safe and save money. Big profits. Banks are profiting. Airlines are profiting. (They just need to check your weight). Our prime minister travelling. A pleasure to help pay his visa. Big business is profiting. We are in good hands. We are all profiting! My family is happy. Never seen them happier. Let the good times roll - never mind the tolls or the new tax invented today in Melbourne. Vote a big YES. Lets keep the momentum and love rolling. Keep the dream alive. I was blind but now I see. Our parliament has our backs. They rock. Feel like I'm at a Bon Jovi concert again, with my shredded jeans.
 
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Who votes them in?

This snippet doesn't answer everything but
It does answer some questions posed here:

The proposed constitutional amendment includes three sub-sections. Price claimed the government “don’t know” what the voice would do or how its membership would be constituted, and alleged that plans about gender and youth representation on the body were “not promises the Government can make.”

But while Price’s speech included reading part one and two verbatim, she only read part of section three. The third section is relevant in this discussion, as it states: “the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.”

The government has pointed to this section, to stress on multiple occasions that the parliament itself – which currently includes Nampijinpa Price and Dutton – would be the body that sets rules around the voice’s membership and how it would operate.

It would mean that, in the event of the referendum passing, the current parliament would vote and set the rules for the first iteration of the voice; and that future government, including subsequent Coalition governments, would be able to update the rules and settings as the parliament of the day sees fit.


So in a sense Nampijinpa Price is right – it is “up to our imagination what this voice would look like”, because she would be among the politicians debating that detail after a successful referendum.
 
Lets all vote Yes. Since the new parliament, everyone seems to get a better chance in life, interest rates low, affordable housing, cheap rent, cameras everywhere, Coles and Woolworth body cams - watching us to keep us safe and save money. Big profits. Banks are profiting. Airlines are profiting. (We just need to check your weight). Our prime minister travelling. A pleasure to help pay his visa. Big business is profiting. We are in good hands. We are all profiting! My family is happy. Never seen them happier. Let the good times roll - never mind the tolls or the new tax invented today in Melbourne. Vote a big YES. Lets keep the momentum and love rolling. Keep the dream alive. I was blind but now I see. Our parliament has our backs. They rock. Feel like I'm at a Bon Jovi concert again, with my shredded jeans.
Nailed it
 
But what I have noticed is none of the yes campaign has said thankyou to the Anzacs or building understructure in the country if it was not for captain Cook this place would be like Papua New Guinea of just a part of China by now

Is this your criticism of the yes campaign ?

Do you think the no campaign should be stating how bad the atrocities that occured in Australia have been ? Should they mention the stolen generation ? Should they mention genocide ?

Would the understructure be better than what is now if the genocide didn't occur ? How would you know this ?
 
I absolutely hate race base politics it's B/S and driven by hate and insecurity

Some Australians seem more outraged by accusations of racism than by racism itself

This is a good opinion piece on the race
topic if you care to take the time & read:

Bizarre that we can be having a debate about enshrining a listening body intended to reset the dialogue between the original inhabitants of the continent and the settlers who turned up in waves after 1788 – and yet a necessary conversation about racism, led by people with lived experience of racism, be deemed out of bounds.
Let’s step through this. Indigenous Australians have proposed a voice to parliament. They’ve proposed a voice in part because institutionalised racism has sabotaged respectful listening to First Nations’ perspectives. Examples of institutionalised racism include but are not limited to: the lie that there was no one here when the British arrived; the documented atrocities of frontier massacres; the policies of forced removal of Aboriginal children from their families – practices that have contributed to a prevalence of intergenerational trauma, a studied phenomenon in survivors of the stolen generations. Racism is one of the factors that explains a measurable gap between outcomes for Indigenous Australians and the rest of the population.

But talking about racism makes people uncomfortable. When the subject gets broached, an unsettling dynamic can ensue. People can appear more outraged by accusations of racism than about racism itself.
Talking about racism is a trap. When Indigenous leaders and other people of colour express frustration about its dogged persistence, they are often subjected to tone policing. They can be caricatured as angry, ungrateful, shrill. And gratuitous characterisations – the pernicious stereotypes of the angry black man or the irrational black woman – are another form of silencing.
So we end up in the ludicrous situation where the only politically acceptable way to combat racism at a structural level involves never expressing frustration about racism just in case someone weaponises community discomfort about racism against the group experiencing it.
We end up here because we live in an unequal world in which the majority sets the terms for how minorities are permitted to express any grievances. These arbitrary rules of acceptable discourse are then generally enforced with a disturbing level of viciousness and a stunning lack of self awareness.
Two vignettes from the week illustrate this phenomenon. Langton was howled down in the bearpit of the House of Representatives and across much of the political media complex for sharing a visceral personal perspective about racism. Meanwhile at the National Press Club the shadow minister for Indigenous Australians, Jacinta Nampijinpa Price

shared her more upbeat perspective – that Indigenous people had not suffered harsh consequences as consequence of British colonisation. Price was given a standing ovation in the room.
This same dynamic also takes us to a central trope of the no campaign. The accusation goes: this voice must be defeated because it will divide Australians “on the basis of race”. This a distortion, and a deliberate one. The voice will not divide Australians on the basis of race; it will facilitate truth-telling about the lived experiences of racism. And many other things. As the Olympian and former Labor senator Nova Peris argued this week, a constitutionally recognised advisory body will allow the lived experiences of First Nations people to be seen.
Langton was perfectly within her rights to posit that some Australians who are resolved to vote no on 14 October will do so because they harbour racist views, or are being influenced by a toxic sludge of negative messaging.
Racism persists. It has not been conquered. I’m confident that both Langton and Nampijinpa Price – and all my Indigenous friends – are experiencing the full force of that ugliness right at the moment. Knowing that makes me feel sick to my stomach.
But this isn’t the whole story.
Not everyone intending to vote no in the referendum is a racist, or awash in dicey TikTok agitprop. Some Australians will reject the voice because they’ve thought about it deeply and don’t like the model. Others will vote no because they can't find the bandwidth to investigate why another body is needed. Still more will vote no because someone they trust convinces them it’s a bad idea. Our most recent Guardian essential poll captures the current low trust environment with a simple metric. Information from family and friends was considered more reliable by many respondents than what they were reading in the traditional media or seeing on social media. Voter perceptions and motivations are always complicated. But a referendum staged as The Hunger Games isn’t a vehicle to untangle complication. There is only one rule in the death match arena – glove up, lean in and land your knockout blow.
 
Some Australians seem more outraged by accusations of racism than by racism itself

It's amazing the ones that are offended by the racism are often the ones voting no. I wonder what racism they are referring too.
 
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