Revealed: Secret bid to buy battling Tigers

[Tiger5150]

For the record I'm not really for or against Benny trying to buy up half of WT.

What I do find interesting is there's been a lot of commentary this year about what Tigers can do differently, given a whole host of coaches, managers, CEOs, staff, players have tried to lift the club to reasonably consistent success, and failed to do so.

It is generally agreed that one of the few consistencies throughout this period has been the board, notwithstanding the Wets 90% buyout of recent years putting it much more firmly in the Wests Ashfield court. We haven't really changed the Board much, aside from the Chairperson.

And a bloke comes along to suggest to buy a stake and shake things up a bit... and the forum reaction appears to be 99% negative. Here's your chance to shake things up folks, we can hardly do much worse on the NRL Ladder or our finals success record. If you are an advocate for shaking up the club structure and ownership, Benny is probably the only bloke who is going to make an offer this side of 2040 (pun intended). Take it or leave it, but if you leave it, you'll need to abandon your complaints about things Wests Ashfield might do in the future.

Hi jirskyr I like that you are looking deeper into it than most, even doing that it still doesn't change the fact that 99.9% of members and fans alike don't trust him. Phenomenal player that he was, it doesn't change the articles that we have read and the stories we have heard.
It also doesn't help he is trying to get involved when the club is well and truly on the rise. The club is going great financially, juniors are firing (2nd in Reggies and Flegg and 4th in the Harold Matts and Tarsha Gale) the $75mil COE is opening shortly, structure and value is being added to all levels of the club and he wants to buy a majority share for what is rumoured to be next years salary cap. During the Taylor and big four era I might have thought about it, but he wasn't there through the bad times, now there is light at the end of the tunnel and he wants in. Go to buggery Ben.

So it appears then, dislike for Benny over-rules desires for change at the top.

It's just interesting to me, because I would had said 50% or more folks would have been interested in a board change after the 2021 season to date. For example, if someone said Dennis Burgess or Simon Cook were stepping down next week, I'm predicting most everyone would quite enthusiastic about a shake-up, not actually having any idea if Dennis or Simon know their stuff, nor who the replacement may be.

But a suggestion of Ben Elias trying to buy a seat, those same folks - aka "everyone" - against it.

It is possible to want changes at board level but to still prefer the current set up to Benny's involvement.

Its kind of like the republican vote in the 99, a lot of people wanted a republic but weren't happy with the model put forward so voted no in the referendum.

I would like change at board level but wouldn't be happy with Benny's involvement so would prefer to keep the current model.

What happened to the ferocious tiger from about 18 months ago when I first joined our forum, that roared with anger when you mistakenly jumped to the conclusion that I was attempting to put a giant wedge between your beloved Balmain Tigers and my beloved Wests Magpies?

What happened to that ferocious tiger that roared with anger and was prepared to die... for the Wests Tigers, as the club was then, due to his life long and never ending love and passion for the Wests Tigers... as it was then?

We currently have a situation where a very poor example of a human being commonly known as 'back door Benny' and his band of faceless men have a burning desire to take control of Wests Tigers.
As admittedly a truly great player for Balmain Tigers, his never ending love for the Balmain Tigers is his sole reason for the need to control.......Wow!!!

He even tells us [it has nothing to do with the need to accumulate personal $$$] there is no profit to be made out of sporting clubs.......Wow!!!

What a truly unique person he is!!!

The fact he is from the Balmain side of our sporting partnership...do you consider if this goes ahead, this could be the actual giant wedge that breaks the Wests Tigers back?

A couple of sporting personalities with a lot more integrity than 'back door Benny' have suggested there is a need for a NRL team to be centered in Campbelltown, and have further suggested Wests Tigers should locate there and once again become known as Wests Magpies.
What's your opinion on this?

No just no. Campbelltown has been tried and failed for the Wests Magpies. Tried again and failed for the Wests Tigers. There is no need for a third time to know the result.

If Elias gets his hands on the Wests Tigers there won’t be the Wests Tigers. It will be the Gosford Tigers, the Brisbane Tigers or the WA Tigers.

The NRL determines who has the licenses and the NRL won’t have the Western Suburbs Magpies back.


Exactly, Benny hasnt exactly been hiding the ball.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/west-coast-pirates-to-push-for-nrl-spot-20120627-21206.html

Ah yes I forgot the name. I meant West Coast Tigers not WA Tigers. Although he did call them the Wests Ashfield Tigers on NRL 360 ???

Thats Benny's play IMO. A bit of talk in this thread (fueled by me) regarding what the ROI on this could be,,,,,.......its this and I cant believe the media havent called him out.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

Mets lost a cumulative 15.3m in the decade up to and including 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829569/new-york-mets-operating-income/

It is clearly a passion purchase from a mega wealthy life long Mets fan. There are many many examples of this throughout sport globally including in Australia (twiggy, Clive Palmer etc etc). Anyway, in 10 years let’s revisit to see who was right.


Wow, I'd have to say that is the most disgraceful and misleading use of stats I have ever seen. They lost a ***cumulative*** 15.3M in the decade up to and ***including*** 2020, the year of COVID, in which they played only 60 of 162 games and which in that year they ***lost US$125M?***

So what you are actually saying is, in the 9 years prior to a black swan event in which 2/3 of the season was cancelled, ***they made a cumulative profit US$109.7M***. That is a pretty good investment in my book, particularly once COVID is over.

If you are going to use statistics, at least try to be honest about it.

Not only are the Mets a good buy based on their history of profit, they share the same market as the Yankees which have an enterprise value of US$4.7B.

Explain to me how buying an organisation that made $110M over 9 years, has an *enterprise value* of US$2.4B dollars is a passion purchase.

By the way how did the Twiggy & Clive Palmer purchases go? What about the Tinkler? Did they create a market in which the next Multi Millionaire bought at a profit? You realise you are proving my case dont you?

No need to see how things are in 10 years. The underlying infrastructure of the NRL prevents profit by the clubs and excludes a market. This is why there wasnt a market 10 years ago, and their wont be in 10 years. The infrastructure of EPL and US sports are VERY different and were created for this purpose.

Happy to exclude 2020 and say annual average profit of 12m which puts the purchase price at a very cheap 200x multiple! Genius!

 

[Tiger5150]

Mets lost a cumulative 15.3m in the decade up to and including 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829569/new-york-mets-operating-income/

It is clearly a passion purchase from a mega wealthy life long Mets fan. There are many many examples of this throughout sport globally including in Australia (twiggy, Clive Palmer etc etc). Anyway, in 10 years let’s revisit to see who was right.


Wow, I'd have to say that is the most disgraceful and misleading use of stats I have ever seen. They lost a ***cumulative*** 15.3M in the decade up to and ***including*** 2020, the year of COVID, in which they played only 60 of 162 games and which in that year they ***lost US$125M?***

So what you are actually saying is, in the 9 years prior to a black swan event in which 2/3 of the season was cancelled, ***they made a cumulative profit US$109.7M***. That is a pretty good investment in my book, particularly once COVID is over.

If you are going to use statistics, at least try to be honest about it.

Not only are the Mets a good buy based on their history of profit, they share the same market as the Yankees which have an enterprise value of US$4.7B.

Explain to me how buying an organisation that made $110M over 9 years, has an *enterprise value* of US$2.4B dollars is a passion purchase.

By the way how did the Twiggy & Clive Palmer purchases go? What about the Tinkler? Did they create a market in which the next Multi Millionaire bought at a profit? You realise you are proving my case dont you?

No need to see how things are in 10 years. The underlying infrastructure of the NRL prevents profit by the clubs and excludes a market. This is why there wasnt a market 10 years ago, and their wont be in 10 years. The infrastructure of EPL and US sports are VERY different and were created for this purpose.

Happy to exclude 2020 and say annual average profit of 12m which puts the purchase price at a very cheap 200x multiple! Genius!

Equity & debt = US$2.3B....good deal, but you keep throwing up Palmer & Tiggy as examples of a market....

 

[TigerTownSFS]

Mets lost a cumulative 15.3m in the decade up to and including 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829569/new-york-mets-operating-income/

It is clearly a passion purchase from a mega wealthy life long Mets fan. There are many many examples of this throughout sport globally including in Australia (twiggy, Clive Palmer etc etc). Anyway, in 10 years let’s revisit to see who was right.


Wow, I'd have to say that is the most disgraceful and misleading use of stats I have ever seen. They lost a ***cumulative*** 15.3M in the decade up to and ***including*** 2020, the year of COVID, in which they played only 60 of 162 games and which in that year they ***lost US$125M?***

So what you are actually saying is, in the 9 years prior to a black swan event in which 2/3 of the season was cancelled, ***they made a cumulative profit US$109.7M***. That is a pretty good investment in my book, particularly once COVID is over.

If you are going to use statistics, at least try to be honest about it.

Not only are the Mets a good buy based on their history of profit, they share the same market as the Yankees which have an enterprise value of US$4.7B.

Explain to me how buying an organisation that made $110M over 9 years, has an *enterprise value* of US$2.4B dollars is a passion purchase.

By the way how did the Twiggy & Clive Palmer purchases go? What about the Tinkler? Did they create a market in which the next Multi Millionaire bought at a profit? You realise you are proving my case dont you?

No need to see how things are in 10 years. The underlying infrastructure of the NRL prevents profit by the clubs and excludes a market. This is why there wasnt a market 10 years ago, and their wont be in 10 years. The infrastructure of EPL and US sports are VERY different and were created for this purpose.

Happy to exclude 2020 and say annual average profit of 12m which puts the purchase price at a very cheap 200x multiple! Genius!


Equity & debt = US$2.3B....good deal, but you keep throwing up Palmer & Tiggy as examples of a market....

Good deal for the seller, he doesn’t care how the buyer finances the $2.4b that pays him that just goes into his bank account. I’m not sure how you think twiggy and Palmer disprove my point. My whole argument was that rich people will pay uneconomic prices for trophy assets. Which is exactly with Palmer etc do.

 

[Tiger5150]

Mets lost a cumulative 15.3m in the decade up to and including 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829569/new-york-mets-operating-income/

It is clearly a passion purchase from a mega wealthy life long Mets fan. There are many many examples of this throughout sport globally including in Australia (twiggy, Clive Palmer etc etc). Anyway, in 10 years let’s revisit to see who was right.


Wow, I'd have to say that is the most disgraceful and misleading use of stats I have ever seen. They lost a ***cumulative*** 15.3M in the decade up to and ***including*** 2020, the year of COVID, in which they played only 60 of 162 games and which in that year they ***lost US$125M?***

So what you are actually saying is, in the 9 years prior to a black swan event in which 2/3 of the season was cancelled, ***they made a cumulative profit US$109.7M***. That is a pretty good investment in my book, particularly once COVID is over.

If you are going to use statistics, at least try to be honest about it.

Not only are the Mets a good buy based on their history of profit, they share the same market as the Yankees which have an enterprise value of US$4.7B.

Explain to me how buying an organisation that made $110M over 9 years, has an *enterprise value* of US$2.4B dollars is a passion purchase.

By the way how did the Twiggy & Clive Palmer purchases go? What about the Tinkler? Did they create a market in which the next Multi Millionaire bought at a profit? You realise you are proving my case dont you?

No need to see how things are in 10 years. The underlying infrastructure of the NRL prevents profit by the clubs and excludes a market. This is why there wasnt a market 10 years ago, and their wont be in 10 years. The infrastructure of EPL and US sports are VERY different and were created for this purpose.

Happy to exclude 2020 and say annual average profit of 12m which puts the purchase price at a very cheap 200x multiple! Genius!


Equity & debt = US$2.3B....good deal, but you keep throwing up Palmer & Tiggy as examples of a market....

Good deal for the seller, he doesn’t care how the buyer finances the $2.4b that pays him that just goes into his bank account. I’m not sure how you think twiggy and Palmer disprove my point. My whole argument was that rich people will pay uneconomic prices for trophy assets. Which is exactly with Palmer etc do.

Cohen bought a company that has CLEAR equity of $2.3B....for $2.4B. For the life of my I cant work out how you think that is a bad investment. In 10 years he recoups his money even excluding any capital gain. Like you said, ***the seller made a profit***, so will the Cohens in 10 years. THAT IS **MY** WHOLE POINT and disproves your point. Its not a passion purchase.

Twiggy & Palmer (and Tinkler) COMPLETELY proves ***my*** point. They both LOST massive money because there is no market for ownership of clubs here, even more so in the NRL. There were no buyers wanting to purchase and they all copped a big loss.

 

[Tiger5150]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

 

[TigerTownSFS]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me

 

[twentyforty]

Have they been on the harbour cruise to discuss this?

 

[Tiger5150]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me

Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

 

[gallagher]

Rivetting stuff guys zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Rugba]

Rivetting stuff guys zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Is it a full moon tonite. Seems nrl supporters everywhere I have turned have gone cray cray today

 

[TigerTownSFS]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.

 

[Tiger5150]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.

Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.


Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

Dude, the Forbes article quotes the Forbes hypothetical valuation of what it thinks the assets are worth, it is not a market. It’s the equivalent of a real estate agent guesstimating what your house is worth. The “enterprise value” will be driven by what other owners are paying the other clubs and inferring what the Mets are worth (helped by the fact that the Mets were actually bought for $2.4b in 2020).

 

[Tiger5150]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.


Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

Dude, the Forbes article quotes the Forbes hypothetical valuation of what it thinks the assets are worth, it is not a market. It’s the equivalent of a real estate agent guesstimating what your house is worth. The “enterprise value” will be driven by what other owners are paying the other clubs and inferring what the Mets are worth (helped by the fact that the Mets were actually bought for $2.4b in 2020).

Its simply not. Do you even know what a balance sheet is? You've already proved you dont know what equity is. Now you are proving you dont know what enterprise value is. Best you slip out now.
Forbes arent guessing anything, they are calculating the value of the company from solid data and assets and it is valued at US$2.3B.

You have no idea what you are talking about and we are boring everyone here.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/valuation/what-is-equity-value/

 

[TigerTownSFS]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.


Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

Dude, the Forbes article quotes the Forbes hypothetical valuation of what it thinks the assets are worth, it is not a market. It’s the equivalent of a real estate agent guesstimating what your house is worth. The “enterprise value” will be driven by what other owners are paying the other clubs and inferring what the Mets are worth (helped by the fact that the Mets were actually bought for $2.4b in 2020).


Its simply not. Do you even know what a balance sheet is? You've already proved you dont know what equity is. Now you are proving you dont know what enterprise value is. Best you slip out now.
Forbes arent guessing anything, they are calculating the value of the company from solid data and assets and it is valued at US$2.3B.

You have no idea what you are talking about and we are boring everyone here.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/valuation/what-is-equity-value/

If only you knew me

 

[Tiger5150]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.


Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

Dude, the Forbes article quotes the Forbes hypothetical valuation of what it thinks the assets are worth, it is not a market. It’s the equivalent of a real estate agent guesstimating what your house is worth. The “enterprise value” will be driven by what other owners are paying the other clubs and inferring what the Mets are worth (helped by the fact that the Mets were actually bought for $2.4b in 2020).


Its simply not. Do you even know what a balance sheet is? You've already proved you dont know what equity is. Now you are proving you dont know what enterprise value is. Best you slip out now.
Forbes arent guessing anything, they are calculating the value of the company from solid data and assets and it is valued at US$2.3B.

You have no idea what you are talking about and we are boring everyone here.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/valuation/what-is-equity-value/

If only you knew me

Are you kind of a big deal?

 

[TigerTownSFS]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.


Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

Dude, the Forbes article quotes the Forbes hypothetical valuation of what it thinks the assets are worth, it is not a market. It’s the equivalent of a real estate agent guesstimating what your house is worth. The “enterprise value” will be driven by what other owners are paying the other clubs and inferring what the Mets are worth (helped by the fact that the Mets were actually bought for $2.4b in 2020).


Its simply not. Do you even know what a balance sheet is? You've already proved you dont know what equity is. Now you are proving you dont know what enterprise value is. Best you slip out now.
Forbes arent guessing anything, they are calculating the value of the company from solid data and assets and it is valued at US$2.3B.

You have no idea what you are talking about and we are boring everyone here.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/valuation/what-is-equity-value/

If only you knew me


Are you kind of a big deal?

Maybe I’m Benny....

 

[BAGNF05]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

Timeline of the Wilpon Era of Mets baseball

The Daily News takes a look back at the Wilpon era of Mets baseball that is coming to an end with the approval of the sale of the club to Steve Cohen.

www.nydailynews.com

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

Baseball Team Values 2019: Yankees Lead League At $4.6 Billion

Why baseball is enjoying record team values and profitability.

www.forbes.com

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.


Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

Dude, the Forbes article quotes the Forbes hypothetical valuation of what it thinks the assets are worth, it is not a market. It’s the equivalent of a real estate agent guesstimating what your house is worth. The “enterprise value” will be driven by what other owners are paying the other clubs and inferring what the Mets are worth (helped by the fact that the Mets were actually bought for $2.4b in 2020).


Its simply not. Do you even know what a balance sheet is? You've already proved you dont know what equity is. Now you are proving you dont know what enterprise value is. Best you slip out now.
Forbes arent guessing anything, they are calculating the value of the company from solid data and assets and it is valued at US$2.3B.

You have no idea what you are talking about and we are boring everyone here.

Equity Value

Equity value can be defined as the total value of the company that is attributable to shareholders. To calculate equity value, follow this guide from CFI.

corporatefinanceinstitute.com

If only you knew me


Are you kind of a big deal?

And if so, any interest in a doer upper of a footy team, it’s based in Campbelltown or Tamworth or god knows where. She’s a knock down rebuild job. Current tenants rarely sighted doing anything useful. Only one other buyer interested.

 

[cochise]

In 2002 Wilpon bought the remaining 50% of the club for US$135M (valuing the club at US$270M). 10 years later the club has equity less debt of US$2.3B, without even considering capital gains on fixed assets and is purchased for US$2.4B. You are not only calling this a "passion purchase", but comparing it to NRL clubs. Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler?

Wow......

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-timeline-of-wilpon-ownership-of-mets-20201031-ya5m63ktynfufoy2wn4ntv3kii-story.html

I can’t work out if you are a troll or just bad at maths (or both). The previous owner bought the club in 2002 at a valuation of the equity (the ownership right) of $270m. They then hold it for 18 years, collect something like $150m of operating profit in 2003 - 2019 and then lose $125m in 2020. Then sell the equity (ownership right) for $2.4b. They have net collected virtually no income from the asset and have sold for a valuation $2b higher despite the fact the asset barely covers its running costs. Rich people like owning things like sports teams because they are fans. What did Mike Cannon Brooks do after buying up the best Sydney real estate? He bought a share of the Houston Rockets because he’s always been a fan.

Anyway mate, if you can’t see the logic I think it’s time I moved on. If this was just a troll: well done you got me


Not trolling, just financially literate.

Equity is not ownership right. Equity is assets less liability. According to Forbes this is US$2.3B (excluding fixed assets). The numbers you keep quoting are operating income (operating gross profit). You are making the error that the only assets they have are realised operating income (profit) but this is not the way it works. Cohen bought a company that has equity less debts of $2.3B and earns US$10M operating profit a year for US$2.4B. These numbers exclude capital gains on fixed assets. That is a great buy....a LONG way from a "passion Purchase".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/?sh=4f40acef69b2

My maths is right, as is my financial literacy......but lets for the sake of the argument say Im completely wrong and and a complete financial moron. What did Wilpon buy the Mets for? (answer US$270M) What did he sell for? (Answer US$2,4B). Did he make a profit? Is there a market for MLB clubs?

Ok.........now tell me what Twiggy, Palmer and Tinkler bought their clubs for and what they sold it for............then try to educate me that there is no market for MLB (other than "Passion Purchases") and there is a market in Australia for NRL clubs. I'll wait.

Yes mate, you are financially illiterate.


Ok ....me and Forbes have it wrong and you have it right. I'll allow you a graceful exit despite you not correcting anything Ive laid out.

Dude, the Forbes article quotes the Forbes hypothetical valuation of what it thinks the assets are worth, it is not a market. It’s the equivalent of a real estate agent guesstimating what your house is worth. The “enterprise value” will be driven by what other owners are paying the other clubs and inferring what the Mets are worth (helped by the fact that the Mets were actually bought for $2.4b in 2020).


Its simply not. Do you even know what a balance sheet is? You've already proved you dont know what equity is. Now you are proving you dont know what enterprise value is. Best you slip out now.
Forbes arent guessing anything, they are calculating the value of the company from solid data and assets and it is valued at US$2.3B.

You have no idea what you are talking about and we are boring everyone here.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/valuation/what-is-equity-value/

If only you knew me


Are you kind of a big deal?

Maybe I’m Benny....

That would make sense actually, both push stupid ideas lol