Roy Masters (SMH): Wests Tigers past, future, present

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https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/we...but-ignoring-the-present-20230712-p5dnoj.html

Wests Tigers living in the past, looking at the future, but ignoring the present

As the Western Suburbs coach of the century, Roy Masters is uniquely positioned to examine the problems that trouble the joint venture.

The problem with Wests Tigers is too much of the Scarlett O’Hara “I’ll think about it tomorrow” philosophy.

Most people on the Wests side of the joint-venture NRL club admit their future is at Campbelltown but despite Balmain having only one director on the eight-person board, the decision to move westward is persistently delayed, just as Scarlett vacillated in Margaret Mitchell’s iconic book Gone With The Wind.

West Tigers’ spiritual past is Lidcombe and Leichhardt; the pragmatic present is a $40 million new training hub at Concord and a wealthy Leagues Club at Ashfield, together with some home games at Parramatta and Homebush.

But its future is an hour down the expressway to the rich vein of youthful playing talent at Campbelltown.

The most recent controversial decision – hiring Scott Fulton as chief recruiter – is an implied admission of the inevitable. Fulton, the son of Immortal Bob Fulton, has actively recruited players from Sydney’s outer west for the Sea Eagles, as have Canterbury. (In a 2021 under-17 representative match between Wests and Manly, six lads from each team gathered for a combined photo. All 12 were mates from Sydney’s south-west).

Fulton’s appointment is partly designed to identify western Sydney talent for West Tigers and stem its flow to inner-city clubs. Yet the manner in which his appointment was communicated to the Wests Tigers coaching staff further reflects Scarlett O’Hara thinking. The recommendation to appoint Fulton came from club management, headed by chief executive Justin Pascoe. The board, after some reservations, agreed on the Friday evening before a match against the Panthers in Bathurst, while insisting head coach Tim Sheens be told before the media learned of the decision.

Management opted to inform Sheens on the Monday and it leaked in the interim. When quizzed by some directors on the management delay, the response was, in effect, “We didn’t want to interfere with Tim’s preparation of the team.”

Sheens, a premiership winner at two clubs, is a professional. He would have blown up about not being consulted on the Fulton appointment but would never have let it impact on the team. He would have argued the club’s existing recruitment head, Warren McDonnell, had comprehensive knowledge of all the talent in the outer west.

It was McDonnell’s recruitment team which signed the three Campbelltown players – Luke Laulilii, Lachlan Galvin and Heath Mason – selected last weekend in the Australian Schoolboys team. McDonnell has since left the club, and it is not clear whether Wests Tigers will go through with the contractual offers he made to other talent in the south-west.

When the Wests Tigers board heard that Fulton may revoke the McDonnell offers, they instructed Pascoe to ensure this doesn’t happen. This is the same board whom former broadcaster Alan Jones recently called upon to resign, using the hackneyed cliche, “a fish rots from the head.” So, if the players identified by McDonnell and the very capable deputy Shannon Gallant are cut from Wests Tigers pathways and development program, is it the fault of the board, or another example of management delay?

There are remarkable similarities between the background and skills of the CEOs of the NRL’s two joint-venture clubs, with the Dragons also anchored to the bottom of the premiership ladder. Both Pascoe and St George Illawarra’s Ryan Webb were educated in Melbourne, were employed at the same AFL club, the Western Bulldogs, and worked together at Wests Tigers, where Webb was chief operating officer between 2015 and 2019. Their expertise is in marketing and finance, with Pascoe credited for securing a fixed price outcome for the Zurich Centre of Excellence.

The Concord headquarters, with its highly publicised barber’s shop, would suit the players, with few living at Campbelltown. Contrast that with the pre-club merger era when Tommy Raudonikis coached the Magpies and lived at Campbelltown.

Ahead of a home game, he stood on the back of a utility, loud hailer in hand, yelling in a throaty voice, “Come to the game”, as the vehicle rolled around Campbelltown on Saturday mornings. He once left his mobile phone on the cabin roof of the utility and it rolled off. Two youngsters found the phone and returned it to Tommy, yet the same community has the unkind reputation of removing hubcaps from cars driving too slowly past.

It’s not as if Wests Tigers are wedded to Concord. I visited, admittedly on a Monday, to do a podcast and it was almost empty, certainly not the buzz you see at the Storm’s Melbourne headquarters, even on a non-training day.

The Storm are 25 years old, almost the same as the Wests Tigers joint venture between the 1908 foundation clubs. Their separate histories are proudly and equally displayed at Concord but the black, white and gold colours of the joint venture dominate.

A new generation has grown up supporting Wests Tigers and, while the Magpies control the board, the ARLC would never allow the licence to be renamed Magpies. To blame Wests Tigers’ decade-long failure to play NRL finals on divided loyalties can only be valid if the players use this as an excuse. Players are notorious for finding external excuses for failure. (Witness the win which invariably follows the sacking of a besieged coach). Weak players always look elsewhere before examining the inadequacies inside their own uniform.
 
Continued:

Former Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire once phoned me, as a former Magpies coach, speculating he was considering resurrecting the Fibros versus Silvertails ethos.

This was a phrase I coined when in charge of the Magpies in the late 1970s to motivate the players from the western suburbs when we played the wealthier clubs, especially Manly.

I agreed the game’s elite still looked down upon Wests Tigers but all clubs now have the same salary cap. Rich clubs think the most important factor in winning is spirit. Poor clubs know it is money. Yet all clubs now receive the same NRL grant. Still, there would be a similarity in the family background of a Campbelltown-raised team and the original Fibros: they all came from the same money, which is to say, not much.

When Maguire’s team suffered a series of heavy defeats, I asked him how the Fibro push had gone. He revealed there was no buy-in from senior players.

Compare that with the comment from former Wests international Les Boyd when I was haranguing the Magpies about social injustice. Les, who never played on the right wing but has always positioned himself there politically, told me, “I know all that Fibro stuff you go on with is bullshit but I make myself believe it.” OK, perhaps the world has since moved on but it was a rare player in the late 1970s who didn’t put the club first.

Rugby league players have never enjoyed more power within a club than the present. Given the shallow pool of talent across the NRL, it’s a player market, where those at the poorly performing clubs can demand mid-season moves and seek extended time off. When Wests Tigers recently lost 74-0 to the Cowboys and club chair Lee Hagipantelis hinted he would look at potential replacements, there was push back from the football department about upsetting the sensitivities of players.

These were the same players who not only missed tackles but set themselves in position to avoid making them. Yet, when both Wests Tigers and the Titans made moves to reverse perennial failure, they moved against the football department, rather than the players. The Titans’ secret appointment of Des Hasler as coach was done without the knowledge of football manager Mal Meninga, while the Fulton choice blindsided Sheens and his planned successor, Benji Marshall.

Perhaps the Titans are taking a stand against treating players like Ming vases – they shatter when dropped. (It’s been reported the Titans believed former coach Justin Holbrook was not firm enough with players after losses.) Nothing irks fans more than losing players walking from the field smiling.

At least the Titans kept Hasler’s appointment secret from the media, compared with Wests Tigers who, according to a News Corp report, appointed Sheens as Maguire’s replacement after a recommendation from their most senior sports journalist. Again, it’s rumoured Fulton’s appointment is designed to buy media influence, given the cache of the Fulton name.

“I know all that Fibro stuff you go on with is bullshit but I make myself believe it.” Les Boyd

Hopefully, it is more to do with his relationship with player managers. If Fulton plays hardball with the influential agents, particularly Isaac Moses who is perceived to have too much influence over the football club, it may stop Wests Tigers from being a “transit lounge”.

This was the term given to the Roosters by former coach Jack Gibson when players signed with the Eastern Suburbs club and waited until offers emerged from stronger ones. But it will need a strong leader to unite Fulton and Marshall. Former AOC president John Coates, a passionate Magpie, was lobbied to replace the NRL-endorsed Marina Go as president of the West Tigers but declined, owing to Olympic commitments.

It took nearly a half century for the Panthers to realise the nucleus of a strong team is home-grown talent. Wests Tigers potentially have an even bigger catchment area in the south-west. Sheens, who went to school at St Gregory’s, Campbelltown, and lived in Penrith, found himself lost in the south-west urban sprawl when driving past and had to stop and consult his car’s sat-nav.

Hagipantelis recognises the club’s ultimate future is in the south-west and hopes the development of the Badgerys Creek airport site will be the stimulus for government to build a new stadium on the Campbelltown site, with corporate facilities. Funds totalling $40 million have already been allocated for a centre of excellence and athletic track.

But in the interim, the Rabbitohs have an office in Liverpool and visit local schools. I drove to Campbelltown last weekend and noticed South Sydney car stickers dominate.

Wests Tigers need authoritative leadership combined with a westward move to overcome their inner-west romantic existence. Otherwise, their future is the same as Scarlett’s last line in Gone With The Wind: “Tomorrow is another day.”
 
Continued:

Former Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire once phoned me, as a former Magpies coach, speculating he was considering resurrecting the Fibros versus Silvertails ethos.

This was a phrase I coined when in charge of the Magpies in the late 1970s to motivate the players from the western suburbs when we played the wealthier clubs, especially Manly.

I agreed the game’s elite still looked down upon Wests Tigers but all clubs now have the same salary cap. Rich clubs think the most important factor in winning is spirit. Poor clubs know it is money. Yet all clubs now receive the same NRL grant. Still, there would be a similarity in the family background of a Campbelltown-raised team and the original Fibros: they all came from the same money, which is to say, not much.

When Maguire’s team suffered a series of heavy defeats, I asked him how the Fibro push had gone. He revealed there was no buy-in from senior players.

Compare that with the comment from former Wests international Les Boyd when I was haranguing the Magpies about social injustice. Les, who never played on the right wing but has always positioned himself there politically, told me, “I know all that Fibro stuff you go on with is bullshit but I make myself believe it.” OK, perhaps the world has since moved on but it was a rare player in the late 1970s who didn’t put the club first.

Rugby league players have never enjoyed more power within a club than the present. Given the shallow pool of talent across the NRL, it’s a player market, where those at the poorly performing clubs can demand mid-season moves and seek extended time off. When Wests Tigers recently lost 74-0 to the Cowboys and club chair Lee Hagipantelis hinted he would look at potential replacements, there was push back from the football department about upsetting the sensitivities of players.

These were the same players who not only missed tackles but set themselves in position to avoid making them. Yet, when both Wests Tigers and the Titans made moves to reverse perennial failure, they moved against the football department, rather than the players. The Titans’ secret appointment of Des Hasler as coach was done without the knowledge of football manager Mal Meninga, while the Fulton choice blindsided Sheens and his planned successor, Benji Marshall.

Perhaps the Titans are taking a stand against treating players like Ming vases – they shatter when dropped. (It’s been reported the Titans believed former coach Justin Holbrook was not firm enough with players after losses.) Nothing irks fans more than losing players walking from the field smiling.

At least the Titans kept Hasler’s appointment secret from the media, compared with Wests Tigers who, according to a News Corp report, appointed Sheens as Maguire’s replacement after a recommendation from their most senior sports journalist. Again, it’s rumoured Fulton’s appointment is designed to buy media influence, given the cache of the Fulton name.

“I know all that Fibro stuff you go on with is bullshit but I make myself believe it.” Les Boyd

Hopefully, it is more to do with his relationship with player managers. If Fulton plays hardball with the influential agents, particularly Isaac Moses who is perceived to have too much influence over the football club, it may stop Wests Tigers from being a “transit lounge”.

This was the term given to the Roosters by former coach Jack Gibson when players signed with the Eastern Suburbs club and waited until offers emerged from stronger ones. But it will need a strong leader to unite Fulton and Marshall. Former AOC president John Coates, a passionate Magpie, was lobbied to replace the NRL-endorsed Marina Go as president of the West Tigers but declined, owing to Olympic commitments.

It took nearly a half century for the Panthers to realise the nucleus of a strong team is home-grown talent. Wests Tigers potentially have an even bigger catchment area in the south-west. Sheens, who went to school at St Gregory’s, Campbelltown, and lived in Penrith, found himself lost in the south-west urban sprawl when driving past and had to stop and consult his car’s sat-nav.

Hagipantelis recognises the club’s ultimate future is in the south-west and hopes the development of the Badgerys Creek airport site will be the stimulus for government to build a new stadium on the Campbelltown site, with corporate facilities. Funds totalling $40 million have already been allocated for a centre of excellence and athletic track.

But in the interim, the Rabbitohs have an office in Liverpool and visit local schools. I drove to Campbelltown last weekend and noticed South Sydney car stickers dominate.

Wests Tigers need authoritative leadership combined with a westward move to overcome their inner-west romantic existence. Otherwise, their future is the same as Scarlett’s last line in Gone With The Wind: “Tomorrow is another day.”

Wow, speechless
 
The recommendation to appoint Fulton came from club management, headed by chief executive Justin Pascoe. The board, after some reservations, agreed on the Friday evening before a match against the Panthers in Bathurst, while insisting head coach Tim Sheens be told before the media learned of the decision.

Management opted to inform Sheens on the Monday and it leaked in the interim. When quizzed by some directors on the management delay, the response was, in effect, “We didn’t want to interfere with Tim’s preparation of the team.”
...
It was McDonnell’s recruitment team which signed the three Campbelltown players – Luke Laulilii, Lachlan Galvin and Heath Mason – selected last weekend in the Australian Schoolboys team. McDonnell has since left the club, and it is not clear whether Wests Tigers will go through with the contractual offers he made to other talent in the south-west.

When the Wests Tigers board heard that Fulton may revoke the McDonnell offers, they instructed Pascoe to ensure this doesn’t happen. This is the same board whom former broadcaster Alan Jones recently called upon to resign, using the hackneyed cliche, “a fish rots from the head.” So, if the players identified by McDonnell and the very capable deputy Shannon Gallant are cut from Wests Tigers pathways and development program, is it the fault of the board, or another example of management delay?

This is extremely interesting. I have no idea who is in the wrong here but it sounds like there is some friction in the club between Sheensy trying to empire build and Pascoe trying to tinker to improve the situation with the board sitting in the middle of a fight.
 
Most interesting points that come to mind on first read

- concerning SW boys had their contracts pulled by fulton
- great point the issue is the culture of the players
- interesting St George, Tigers, current CEO worker together and have similar background
- definitely need more authority in management
- sad, that when bight eyes invited him to BTR pod, he noticed how quiet the joint was
- interesting McDonnell identified current young guns

Unfortunately it spells more years of pain.
 
One thing is for certain we need big changes at the top. If Sheens and the CEO plus board are at loggerheads..flick them and for once get people who are on the same page. I don’t care who is right and who is wrong we need the club all pulling in the one direction and mature people should be able to work there differences out without pulling the club down
 
Is he right ? @Todd Packer - you mentioned this in another thread.
There's no doubt he's right.
It's time to cut our losses and move to the South West with whatever management team has a vision for the future.
The management of our club allowing Souths and C'Bury to encroach on our area makes my blood boil.
I don't even know how the NRL allows that. When you buy a Jim's Mowing franchise in Raby, the Jim's mowing guy from Redfern can't steal your customers.
We are basically a franchise of the NRL so why are Souths being allowed to cut our grass.
The fact that our management sits back and watches it happen is unbelievable.
 
There's no doubt he's right.
It's time to cut our losses and move to the South West with whatever management team has a vision for the future.
The management of our club allowing Souths and C'Bury to encroach on our area makes my blood boil.
I don't even know how the NRL allows that. When you buy a Jim's Mowing franchise in Raby, the Jim's mowing guy from Redfern can't steal your customers.
We are basically a franchise of the NRL so why are Souths being allowed to cut our grass.
The fact that our management sits back and watches it happen is unbelievable.
There is plenty of doubt.

There is a geographical fallacy that you can hold or protect an entire region from other clubs poaching. If that were true, Melbourne and Roosters would never be competitive in the NRL owing to their miniscule junior bases.

That is not to say that you do not concentrate on building a long-standing presence and legacy in certain areas, particularly areas historically associated with your brand. But it does mean you cannot stop other clubs from trying to sign juniors from your districts.

There is no guarantee that if you were to uproot the entire operation and move it to Campbelltown, you get a better or stronger output from that district. Obviously it's a moot point because the CoE has now been realised, but they are planning to get a new academy HQ in the Macarthur and this seems sensible.

Why not both? Why can't you have facilities in both districts and not necessarily have to move everything to Campbelltown?

Some of Roy Masters' arguments are so simplistic, so basic. Like he drives to Campbo and he sees some Souths bumper stickers and thinks that's worth mentioning. How statistically irrelevant!
 
Most interesting points that come to mind on first read

- concerning SW boys had their contracts pulled by fulton
- great point the issue is the culture of the players
- interesting St George, Tigers, current CEO worker together and have similar background
- definitely need more authority in management
- sad, that when bight eyes invited him to BTR pod, he noticed how quiet the joint was
- interesting McDonnell identified current young guns

Unfortunately it spells more years of pain.
Well it depends which boys Fulton would consider not continuing with. He's allowed to have an opinion, and based on the feedback I read on these forums, there are definitely some kids on decent Tigers contracts that some fans think are not gonna make it.

Also not interesting at all that McDonnell identified some of the current young players - that was his job up until a few weeks ago?

About the only thing Masters said that sticks well is that there is a strong component of lack of player ownership and lack of buy-in into club culture, which would be indicative of the newer style of "personal brand/franchise" and "build a legacy for my family" approach of the modern player, rather than pure commitment to the club they represent.

For example the ease with which Tedesco left Tigers (attempted more than once) and slipped into Roosters colours with his new teeth, like he'd always been Uncle Nick's favourite pet.
 
Retire already Roy. A legend but like many doesent know when to give it up. He is living in the past.
Does everyone know he lives in Melbourne, right? I do appreciate that he attempts to write unique thought pieces with (usually) a decent grab of data, but I also find he is increasingly out of touch with what the NRL is doing.

For I met the man many years ago on work experience; I wasn't impressed, he seemed pretty arrogant. But back then he was in the teeth of rugby league news, interviewing and writing every week from Sydney.

Now he writes opinion pieces periodically from Melbourne.
 
Well it depends which boys Fulton would consider not continuing with. He's allowed to have an opinion, and based on the feedback I read on these forums, there are definitely some kids on decent Tigers contracts that some fans think are not gonna make it.

Also not interesting at all that McDonnell identified some of the current young players - that was his job up until a few weeks ago?

About the only thing Masters said that sticks well is that there is a strong component of lack of player ownership and lack of buy-in into club culture, which would be indicative of the newer style of "personal brand/franchise" and "build a legacy for my family" approach of the modern player, rather than pure commitment to the club they represent.

For example the ease with which Tedesco left Tigers (attempted more than once) and slipped into Roosters colours with his new teeth, like he'd always been Uncle Nick's favourite pet.
Interesting those players are good!
 
Does everyone know he lives in Melbourne, right? I do appreciate that he attempts to write unique thought pieces with (usually) a decent grab of data, but I also find he is increasingly out of touch with what the NRL is doing.

For I met the man many years ago on work experience; I wasn't impressed, he seemed pretty arrogant. But back then he was in the teeth of rugby league news, interviewing and writing every week from Sydney.

Now he writes opinion pieces periodically from Melbourne.
Travels between both states.
 
Does everyone know he lives in Melbourne, right? I do appreciate that he attempts to write unique thought pieces with (usually) a decent grab of data, but I also find he is increasingly out of touch with what the NRL is doing.

For I met the man many years ago on work experience; I wasn't impressed, he seemed pretty arrogant. But back then he was in the teeth of rugby league news, interviewing and writing every week from Sydney.

Now he writes opinion pieces periodically from Melbourne.
First time i have seen some bias from you - those 3 replys of yours comes across as a bit of butt hurt for something.
 

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