Same sex marriage debate...

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

I want to avoid getting into a religious argument about marriage because it is not relevant to this specific discussion, and focus on the important question at hand : should people be thrown in jail for having the opinion that marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman?

How is that even remotely a possibility? That's just scaremongering.

Like i have told everyone else, jump on google and see for yourself what has happened over seas.

I would be exposed pretty quickly if i was making this stuff up.

Yes and people get killed for dealing in drugs in the Philipines yet they don't get killed here. The criminal justice system in Australia would not see people imprisoned for "having the opinion that marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman". Anyone who works in it would tell you that.

Under current anti-discrimination religions unjustly can discriminate against gays couples and even defacto couples - so I imagine that would occur under SSM legislation. We need another attorney general and High Court justice like Lionel Murphy to guarantee that every goes wrong goes right.

 

[Yossarian]

What if they don't like black people? Can they refuse to cater a wedding if they don't like black people? Is that cool?

No its not cool, and there is a difference you are not seeing.

You shouldnt be able to refuse to service a person based on their immutable characteristics… race, sexuality, gender, skin colour etc. Most decent people woild agree this to be straightforward discrimination.

But in refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding, these people are not refusing service because the customer is gay, they are refusing because the particular event in question goes against their beliefs.

It is the purpose of the event, and not the people taking part in it, which is the issue at hand.

I hope this clears up that question.

Unless they object to the principle of marriage and refuse to bake cakes for _any_ wedding, that's just codswallop. Their objection is to the sexuality of the participants not the event of two people getting married.
So no, that doesn't clear it up and the analogy remains as Nelson presented it.

 

[Geo]

Huh…I work in a Catholic High School and we teach Love, Tolerance and Equality in fact it's part of our vision statement... and no one forces us to do that...

You havnt been following the conversation.

Oveaseas where ssm was made legal, religious schools have been forced to teach kids about homosexual sex.

Thete is currently a jewish school in the UK facing closure for failing to do this.

Gee Abe… I would hardly think they would be forced to teach homosexual sex 101...nor would we here in Aus.... but they would certainly be poor educators if the subject was taboo especially in the areas of PDHPE and Science in relation to sexually transmitted diseases and risk factors involved...

 

[Pawsandclaws]

Let's get the forum views on this article.

http://australia.timesofnews.com/footballers-are-a-worse-threat-to-family-values-than-any-gay-couple

 

[Yossarian]

Huh…I work in a Catholic High School and we teach Love, Tolerance and Equality in fact it's part of our vision statement... and no one forces us to do that...

You havnt been following the conversation.

Oveaseas where ssm was made legal, religious schools have been forced to teach kids about homosexual sex.

Thete is currently a jewish school in the UK facing closure for failing to do this.

Well here's an article about it. It doesn't seem like they were being forced to teach homosexual sex at all.
[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/private-jewish-school-lgbt-issues-fail-ofsted-inspection-vishnitz-girls-london-orthodox-sex-british-a7809221.html/u]

 

[Abraham]

Huh…I work in a Catholic High School and we teach Love, Tolerance and Equality in fact it's part of our vision statement... and no one forces us to do that...

You havnt been following the conversation.

Oveaseas where ssm was made legal, religious schools have been forced to teach kids about homosexual sex.

Thete is currently a jewish school in the UK facing closure for failing to do this.

Gee Abe… I would hardly think they would be forced to teach homosexual sex 101...nor would we here in Aus.... but they would certainly be poor educators if the subject was taboo especially in the areas of PDHPE and Science in relation to sexually transmitted diseases and risk factors involved...

I bet this school didnt think they would be FORCED to teach homosexuality either …
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[https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/private-jewish-school-lgbt-issues-fail-ofsted-inspection-vishnitz-girls-london-orthodox-sex-british-a7809221.html%3famp](https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/private-jewish-school-lgbt-issues-fail-ofsted-inspection-vishnitz-girls-london-orthodox-sex-british-a7809221.html%3Famp)

 

[Abraham]

Happy Monday people.

I took the weekend off discussing "Gay Marriage", and was going to respond to the various comments and questions directed at me this morning, but figured after 20 + pages I am just repeating myself now.

Some people have entered into genuine debate and have shown a willingness to look at different points of view, which is the purpose of a thread like this, while others seem more intent on simply winning a debate … but that's human nature.

I don't want anybody who has asked me a question to think i am ignoring them, just that it's getting a little repetitive. However if someone has a genuine question or thinks there is something that i have written that they don't understand, i am happy to still discuss. Either in this thread or via PM.

People think that this is changing one little law that will not have any other effects, when the truth is that changing this one law will have a ripple effect onto many other laws, and will end up changing our society completely. To understand what changes it will institute, look at what has happened to every country that has legalised SSM as perfect examples of what i am talking about, and look at what knowledgeable people predict will happen to Australia over time. Some people might be happy with these changes, but the bottom line is to be informed (and in this 'google age' there is no excuse for ignorance).

Any person is entitled to vote however they want after weighing up the facts ... just don't vote blindly.

 

[gallagher]

I voted yes in about 1 sec and sent it off. Nothing to think about for me.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Still haven't got my forms yet. Anyone yet to receive theirs?

 

[stryker]

Still haven't got my forms yet. Anyone yet to receive theirs?

Yep Most i know havent got them yet

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Happy Monday people.

I took the weekend off discussing "Gay Marriage", and was going to respond to the various comments and questions directed at me this morning, but figured after 20 + pages I am just repeating myself now.

Some people have entered into genuine debate and have shown a willingness to look at different points of view, which is the purpose of a thread like this, while others seem more intent on simply winning a debate … but that's human nature.

I don't want anybody who has asked me a question to think i am ignoring them, just that it's getting a little repetitive. However if someone has a genuine question or thinks there is something that i have written that they don't understand, i am happy to still discuss. Either in this thread or via PM.

**People think that this is changing one little law that will not have any other effects, when the truth is that changing this one law will have a ripple effect onto many other laws, and will end up changing our society completely. To understand what changes it will institute, look at what has happened to every country that has legalised SSM as perfect examples of what i am talking about, and look at what knowledgeable people predict will happen to Australia over time. Some people might be happy with these changes, but the bottom line is to be informed (and in this 'google age' there is no excuse for ignorance)**.

Any person is entitled to vote however they want after weighing up the facts ... just don't vote blindly.

I hope these ripple effects do take place so there truly is no discrimination. At private parties the refusniks can gather around their own campfire and reminisce and snigger but in public they must at least pretend because one's persons freedom finishes where another person's rights begin - that is the right not to feel a second class citizen or unaccepted. If this is what it takes to eliminate the violence and denigration that are subjected to homosexual persons then so be it.

It was only 30 years ago when homosexual men were pushed over cliffs in Sydney yet we forget this when we criticise Islamic societies who do exactly the same thing now - off tall buildings.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Still haven't got my forms yet. Anyone yet to receive theirs?

Yep Most i know havent got them yet

Cool, I'm not in Sydney so it's likely it'll take longer for me to get them anyway.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

i really dont give a toss, but it is a total waste of money which could go towards hospitals and finding cures for sick people. as for the NRL saying they support the yes vote, what right have they to support yes or no, need to say out of it.

They have as much of a right to give their opinion as an organisation, as the Churches, or any other organisation does . Its the same as saying the Catholic Church should stay out of it
Come to think of it there's quite a few members of a few churches who should stay out of it , or any other vote for that matter

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

On the sporting organisations supporting it, I think you'll find that is to promote inclusive attitudes towards everyone as sport is long held as something that brings all walks of life together under one banner and surpasses the differences between people. We'd have white, black, asian, hispanic, gay, straight, male and female fans all following this club. The club and the game in general would welcome any and all.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm on the Central Coast and got mine on Friday.

 

[4jtigers]

If they want equality then they should stop the gay games.. I know a bit off topic but anyway… (I will not post here anymore... I will stick to the "West Tigers" forums).

 

[Go_You_Good_Things]

Byron bay fan, the biggest problem I have with the "yes/left" is how they preach their desire for understanding and empathy . . . . but only when it suits their agenda. They want to be seen as pushing for fairness and equality without discrimination, but God help you when you have a differing opinion to theirs. Any attempt to put that opinion out there will be shot down in a heartbeat. Whoever proposed that opinion will be publicly branded a homophobe, bigot, etc, etc.
People are actually entitled to their opinions, you know ?
You have been the most voiceful in your tirade against anything but a "yes" voter.
Guess what mate, there are folks that simply don't agree with it, for whatever reason they choose. They might have had a bad encounter with a gay man. They might simply be disgusted at the thought of what gay men do to each other. The concept of [This word has been automatically removed] might make them wanna throw up. They might see potential problems with same sex's raising kids. It might be against their values.
Not because of religion, necessarily . . . . some see it as defying nature.
Right or wrong ( in your mind), these people have the same right as you to think in whatever fashion they see fit, and to do so without being branded a ( insert latest term used by the left to denigrate one who has independent thought )
Why all of a sudden . . . after SO many years of wanting to be different, so many years of defying the norms of marriage, so many years of rejecting the whole man/woman component of marriage . . . have the homosexuals become SO infatuated with being able to marry ?
Let them have some sort of "union" recognised . . . . but why insist on being included in the most typical union of man and woman, when they insist on living totally as man/man and woman/woman ?
Let the tirade of abuse begin. How dare I have an alternate point of view.

 

[tig_prmz]

i havent decided yet tbh and if i can't decide i wont vote

but someone raised this point earlier, what if three people want to be in a "marriage"? would that be ok since it doesnt affect me, they love each other and want to have a family together?

i wish the LGBT community the best of luck and as GNR said, it will help eventually, whether everyone likes it or not. The least we could do is think about all possible ways it could affect the community, the religious sentiments, the actual laws (for e.g. gay coule adopt and then divorce) etc etc that do in fact concern others.

i personally don't care about the religious sentiments but need to explore all legal issues that this may present down the track.

 

[Yossarian]

Guess what mate, there are folks that simply don't agree with it, for whatever reason they choose. They might have had a bad encounter with a gay man. They might simply be disgusted at the thought of what gay men do to each other. The concept of [This word has been automatically removed] might make them wanna throw up. They might see potential problems with same sex's raising kids. It might be against their values.
Not because of religion, necessarily . . . . some see it as defying nature.
Right or wrong ( in your mind), these people have the same right as you to think in whatever fashion they see fit, and to do so without being branded a ( insert latest term used by the left to denigrate one who has independent thought )
Why all of a sudden . . . after SO many years of wanting to be different

Let the tirade of abuse begin. How dare I have an alternate point of view.

Well when you write dribble you should expect a reply. And I make that statement personally not as an official representative of the left/Marxist world cabal.

You reference a series of ridiculous reasons to vote no and present them as valid. Someone who votes no because they had a bad encounter with a gay man is a moron and deserves to be called out.

Gay and Lesbian people didn't become homosexual because they wanted to be different. This isn't a choice, this is who they are. If you really think that gay men thought being gay was some planned point of difference then that's flat out stupid.

And don't behind some sob story about alternative views. You can form whatever view you want but limiting someone else's basic hum rights takes it a step further.

Now why precisely do you object to amending the Marriage Act?

 

[Yossarian]

If they want equality then they should stop the gay games.. I know a bit off topic but anyway… (I will not post here anymore... I will stick to the "West Tigers" forums).

There's an amputee games too. Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to get married or vote or something.