Same sex marriage debate...

@ said:
If there is a yes vote..how will this affect our everyday living and what dramatic changes will be seen within our families and/or community that will change our day to day norm..

If there is a Yes vote it will mean Schools, Churches, and Businesses will be at the mercy of the Gay Lobby/Marxists in their quest to silence anybody who thinks differently to them.

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If there is a no vote..how will this affect our day to day living…will it be a victory for the traditional man/woman marriage as our society exists at the moment or will it be a glorious religious victory as referenced by the bible..

If there is a No vote, nothing will change. Gay people can still love each other, engage in whatever type of relationship they please, adopt children, and enjoy the exact same rights and responsibilities as straight couples as enshrined in the same-sex law reform package which was passed by parliament in 2008.
 
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Okay. Firstly an "article" in the Oz (it looked like an oped piece to me) isn't definitive proof your view is correct. It simply means someone else shares your concern.

The writer shares my concern based on the same tangible evidence that i have been talking about, namely a tsunami of court cases in countries where people and organizations who espouse a preference for the traditional view of marriage have been hit by law suits and criminal charges … simply for having an opinion and sharing it.

I think its disingenuous that people pretend that they don't have access to this information already, when five minutes in google-land can confirm all of this beyond a shadow of any doubt.

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Whether the freedom to be bigoted, homophobic etc is worth protecting is a side argument. The change to the Marriage Act would not change this. Hypotheticals on future legislation are just that - hypothetical. Stopping a segment of the population doing something on the basis it might make people uncomfortable doing their day jobs is, I would suggest, a poor reason not to do something. I'm sure some people don't like renting to Indigenous people.

So your arguing that swapping one group who claims discrimination, for another group to be discriminated against instead, is OK?

So on what basis do we determine who should be discriminated against and who shouldn't? Is there a point system, or a ranking that can be applied to different groups on how badly they deserve to be discriminated against ?

And who is the great moral emperor who determines those it will be ok to discriminate against?

Can you see what your setting yourself up for if you go for this? Today its traditional marriage, tomorrow it might be belief in God, and the day after that it could be something which you hold dear. History is littered with people who stood by and let those around them be attacked, and didn't lift a finger until it was too late.

So while Canberra is thinking of tinkering with the Marriage Act, it would be best for them to scrap it altogether and leave these decisions up to the individual. It would also be prudent to draw up a Bill of Rights style document which makes it abundantly clear that a person's right to freedom of speech cannot be impinged upon by the state.

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On point 2 it was the government who chose to play a role by defining what a marriage was. If it wasn't for the that the states would probably have passed their own legislation by now.

Exactly why i said the federal government should F right off and not have any say in whether two people can or can't call themselves husband and wife, or wife and wife, or husband and husband.

Its an individual choice and it does not require input from a Government who has no business infringing on this matter.

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I'll leave the last bit alone. I'm not sure anyone can claim a superior insight into what Christianity means. These are personal journeys and reflections. I would simply say that the concerns of churches and religious bodies shouldn't have traction in the legislative process of a secular society where it does not directly affect them.

When someone claims my faith precludes me from holding a certain view, which ironically is based totally on that faith, i think i have the right to point that out.

I don't see how allowing SSM discriminates against anyone. I don't believe you have made your case.Being offended by broad social change is not a reasonable argument against change.

The right to free speech is rarely absolute. You clearly take a very broad approach to such things. I personally believe "free speech" is fine up to the point where it incites hate or intolerance based on innate characteristics. That is to say it needs to be balanced with civil rights. Regardless opposing SSM on the basis that people won't be able to make homophobic (and I use this in the literal definition of the word) slurs doesn't seem to be a valid argument to me.

I don't think repealing the Marriage Act is a great move. I'm guessing a lot of other legislation hangs off this.

As for the last point, again I'd say these are personal reflections. What Christianty means to you is not necessarily the same as it is to the next person. It doesn't make either correct or incorrect on that basis.
 
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If there is a yes vote..how will this affect our everyday living and what dramatic changes will be seen within our families and/or community that will change our day to day norm..

If there is a Yes vote it will mean Schools, Churches, and Businesses will be at the mercy of the Gay Lobby/Marxists in their quest to silence anybody who thinks differently to them.

@ said:
If there is a no vote..how will this affect our day to day living…will it be a victory for the traditional man/woman marriage as our society exists at the moment or will it be a glorious religious victory as referenced by the bible..

If there is a No vote, nothing will change. Gay people can still love each other, engage in whatever type of relationship they please, adopt children, and enjoy the exact same rights and responsibilities as straight couples as enshrined in the same-sex law reform package which was passed by parliament in 2008.

Although I disagree, you've made some well constructed arguments during this thread. But this boils down your arguments into a tight package.

For starters linking SSM suppoerers and Marxism is ridiculous. You can and have done better. You suggest allowing SSM will put various groups at the mercy of some cabal. This is nonsense. The same protections that exist now exist the day after. You appear to base your case of hypothetical scenarios that may or may not play out. I know you will cite cases where people have faced legal challenge for refusing to provide a service on personal grounds. Changing the Marriage Act does not influence this one iota. You may argue that it creates an appetite for further tightening of such matters. I don't see it.

In advancing a no vote you refer to legislation that in other places you seem to want to abolish. I'm not sure what the Bible reference is in aid of. If you're suggesting Biblical definition should inform legislation then I strongly disagree.
 
I'm just grateful that by failing to qualify for the finals in any grade we've cleared the decks for discussions like these. Those Penrith fans would so jealous!
 
If SSM was around 25 plus years ago i would have married my best mate! We are not gay but we have so much in common, get on like a house on fire, love fishing, footy and drinking beer - it would have made good sense.

Also is anyone else getting the adds for Gay Cruises coming up?

Thought i would lighten the mood, it was getting a bit heated.
 
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No one has considered the People's Front of Judea or the Judean's People's Front's position…splitters..

Or Stan's right to be called a Woman..

. . . and the eventual irony of it "gestating in a box"

Nice to have a laugh Geo, in these dark times when men go around saying NI to old ladies.
And besides . . . . apart from health, sanitation, roads and the aqueduct, what did the bloody Romans ever do for us ?? Get me some wolf nipple chips. They're lovely while they're hot.
 
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If there is a yes vote..how will this affect our everyday living and what dramatic changes will be seen within our families and/or community that will change our day to day norm..

If there is a Yes vote it will mean Schools, Churches, and Businesses will be at the mercy of the Gay Lobby/Marxists in their quest to silence anybody who thinks differently to them.

@ said:
If there is a no vote..how will this affect our day to day living…will it be a victory for the traditional man/woman marriage as our society exists at the moment or will it be a glorious religious victory as referenced by the bible..

If there is a No vote, nothing will change. Gay people can still love each other, engage in whatever type of relationship they please, adopt children, and enjoy the exact same rights and responsibilities as straight couples as enshrined in the same-sex law reform package which was passed by parliament in 2008.

Although I disagree, you've made some well constructed arguments during this thread. But this boils down your arguments into a tight package.

For starters linking SSM suppoerers and Marxism is ridiculous. You can and have done better. You suggest allowing SSM will put various groups at the mercy of some cabal. This is nonsense. The same protections that exist now exist the day after. You appear to base your case of hypothetical scenarios that may or may not play out. I know you will cite cases where people have faced legal challenge for refusing to provide a service on personal grounds. Changing the Marriage Act does not influence this one iota. You may argue that it creates an appetite for further tightening of such matters. I don't see it.

In advancing a no vote you refer to legislation that in other places you seem to want to abolish. I'm not sure what the Bible reference is in aid of. If you're suggesting Biblical definition should inform legislation then I strongly disagree.

Yoss I mentioned the bible in my question mainly because of being taught that man and women should be married as indicated in the Adam and Eve reference within the bible..
I by no means wanted to strongly suggest it is the one and only scenario that people should adhere to.
 
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In advancing a no vote you refer to legislation that in other places you seem to want to abolish. I'm not sure what the Bible reference is in aid of. If you're suggesting Biblical definition should inform legislation then I strongly disagree.

???

I purposely haven't spoken about the Bible in this thread, as its not a religious discussion.

I think you might be confusing me with somebody else.
 
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If there is a yes vote..how will this affect our everyday living and what dramatic changes will be seen within our families and/or community that will change our day to day norm..

If there is a Yes vote it will mean Schools, Churches, and Businesses will be at the mercy of the Gay Lobby/Marxists in their quest to silence anybody who thinks differently to them.

@ said:
If there is a no vote..how will this affect our day to day living…will it be a victory for the traditional man/woman marriage as our society exists at the moment or will it be a glorious religious victory as referenced by the bible..

If there is a No vote, nothing will change. Gay people can still love each other, engage in whatever type of relationship they please, adopt children, and enjoy the exact same rights and responsibilities as straight couples as enshrined in the same-sex law reform package which was passed by parliament in 2008.

Although I disagree, you've made some well constructed arguments during this thread. But this boils down your arguments into a tight package.

For starters linking SSM suppoerers and Marxism is ridiculous. You can and have done better. You suggest allowing SSM will put various groups at the mercy of some cabal. This is nonsense. The same protections that exist now exist the day after. You appear to base your case of hypothetical scenarios that may or may not play out. I know you will cite cases where people have faced legal challenge for refusing to provide a service on personal grounds. Changing the Marriage Act does not influence this one iota. You may argue that it creates an appetite for further tightening of such matters. I don't see it.

In advancing a no vote you refer to legislation that in other places you seem to want to abolish. I'm not sure what the Bible reference is in aid of. If you're suggesting Biblical definition should inform legislation then I strongly disagree.

Yoss I mentioned the bible in my question mainly because of being taught that man and women should be married as indicated in the Adam and Eve reference within the bible..
I by no means wanted to strongly suggest it is the one and only scenario that people should adhere to.

Sorry mate I conflated your response and Abraham's. My apologies to him too if I did so.

As for the Bible reference itself, whilst I respect people's personal views I don't believe they should be a basis for law.
 
Could someone explain to me why its wrong for those who are against it to feel they don't have freedom of speech or expression, yet thats already what is happening to people who want this law to pass, and that seems to be ok. Double standards.
 
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Never called you a bigot. But nevertheless i probably had digs at you, and you had them at me. Who cares. How about we put all that aside like adults and try and have a civil discussion?

Could either of you guys answer my questions in my post on this page….I need civil replies..thanks guys...

Idk mate. Imo nothing would or should change.

But will it change people's view in regard to life in general…are we going to be a nation of multiculturalism or will we be known as a nation who accept ssm easily as we have been man / woman married society since day dot..
In other words are we going to become "permiscuous" as a nation to other nations..

Promiscuous? We're perceived as a nation of drunken descendants of criminals… I don't think letting gays marry will tip it over the edge when we've already fallen off it.
 
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I was always taught to address my friends parents as Mr and Mrs…

It would be hard to go to someone's place and address them as Mr and Mr or Mrs and Mrs...

Just saying....let confusion abound...

Would it be that hard or confusing?
 
Seems to me this is what extremist Islam wants…. the west turning on itself and collapsing from within.
Won't be no debates then.
 
@ said:
If there's no logic or some semblance of factual evidence, then no, not all opinions are equal

We'll have to agree to disagree - opinions have nothing to do with facts. That's what makes them opinions.

opinion |əˈpɪnjən| noun
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

And this is why 'bigot' has become a popular term in this debate

bigot |ˈbɪɡət|noun
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions

As I said earlier, vote whichever way you choose, but be respectful of people voting the other way - they have just as much right to an opinion.
 
Maybe we should start with female same sex marriage first and when that becomes normal move on to the PB's? We all know its only the chicks who give a damn about being married anyhow….
 
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