Second row / lock to start season

jrtiger said:
I don't necessarily agree with Bird at 13, but I think Marshall will opt with the below to start the year as others have suggested.

11. Fainu
12. Seyfarth
13. Bird

by the end of the year I hope that we will have found a better fit for the 13. Matamua, Johannssen and Kit Laulili'i all have their respective strengths and weaknesses, so I guess we will see.
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I'm expecting Bird to play a Wade Graham/Luke Lewis role (more Wade than Luke though). He can do that at 13 but could also do it on an edge which would match his background in defence. I think Benji will reward hard work int he off season and from what I have read Bird has been doing extras to tick all the boxes. I'm keen to see what Bird brings; but, we definitely need to be grooming a 13 for the future and by the end of the season Bird should be on the bench, unless he is tearing it apart, with the future on the paddock.
 
I dont think Pole .. Seyfarth or Twal have the lateral movement needed to be a 13 .. Sam Fainu is better suited to be a 11 or 12. Im guessing we are looking at players with a BIG maybe against their names to be our 13 .. maybe:

Bird
L. Fainu
Doueihi
Galvin

** Puts flame suit on because i said Galvin .. this is position where Galvin will eventually end up once he fills out.
 
The-moP said:
I dont think Pole .. Seyfarth or Twal have the lateral movement needed to be a 13 .. Sam Fainu is better suited to be a 11 or 12. Im guessing we are looking at players with a BIG maybe against their names to be our 13 .. maybe:

Bird
L. Fainu
Doueihi
Galvin

** Puts flame suit on because i said Galvin .. this is position where Galvin will eventually end up once he fills out.
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Took years for Garner to fill out.
Don't hold your breath for Galvin to fill out.
 
As it currently stands, I think the two primary candidates for lock are Bird and Matamua.

Jack Bird is a seasoned NRL player who brings versatility and experience. He has broad experience, having played various positions including: center, five-eighth, and back row. While not an experienced lock he is known for his attacking skills and robust defence. His ball-playing ability and on-field vision make him a highly suitable as a ball playing lock, or an edge, where Benji wants to use a combination of physicality and playmaking.

Justin Matamua is an emerging talent, but has yet to show the consistency required to be at NRL level. He is probably viewed as a future prospect for the lock position. If he performs well over the pre-season he may impress Benji enough to earn a start; however, purely based on his 2024 performances he requires further physical and technical development, especially in defence, before hitting the NRL and securing a regular first-grade spot. My best guess is that Matamua will continue his development in Cup stepping up to the NRL as opportunities arise. If he grabs an opportunity with both hands he may not relinquish it.

My gut feel is that Benji is chasing a Wade Graham/Luke Lewis type of player at 13. Bird has the adaptability, ball-playing, and leadership skills to play that type of role. Matamua is a ball playing lock but I don't think he is at the same level as Bird yet. Jack Bird is probably the perfect mentor for him though. We have not had a lock of that syle or calibre in our recent history.

Considering the attributes required for the lock position, the statements made post season by Benji and Bird, combined with the way Benji is likely to want to play, Jack Bird appears to be the more suitable option to start the season. His NRL experience, versatility and ball-playing skills, align well with the demands of a modern lock.

While Matamua shows potential, allowing him additional time to develop in the KOE, under the mentorship of Bird, will enable him to gain the necessary experience and physical development to compete at NRL level.

I think this approach ensures that we have a seasoned player in the lock position to kick the season off while also nurturing Matamua for future seasons.
 
The Chad said:
That means Bird will be tackling Payne Haas etc through the middle.

I don't like it.
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That is a risk for sure; however, Matamua wasn't cutting the mustard with his defence in 2024. What other NRL ready option do you see in our squad? Is the risk acceptable if our attacking game plan is based around Luai and Galvin supplemented with a ball playing lock?
 
Jolls said:
That is a risk for sure; however, Matamua wasn't cutting the mustard with his defence in 2024. What other NRL ready option do you see in our squad? Is the risk acceptable if our attacking game plan is based around Luai and Galvin supplemented with a ball playing lock?
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Mata was hooked in one game by memory and Bird is getting on it's a difficult choice Benji has a hard decision to make unless someone else puts their hand up want a ball player there not Pole.
 
Play Bird out wider & Seyfarth in the middle? Play Twal at #13? Anyone that can stand up to the big guys coming at them & make 40-50 tackles a game.

I like Bird, but if he's not playing centre (my preference) then I'm defending him out wide.
 
The Chad said:
Play Bird out wider & Seyfarth in the middle? Play Twal at #13? Anyone that can stand up to the big guys coming at them & make 40-50 tackles a game.

I like Bird, but if he's not playing centre (my preference) then I'm defending him out wide.
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I'm confused about Twal. His defensive stats are usually good but I see too many line breaks made around him.
 
tig_prmz said:
I'm confused about Twal. His defensive stats are usually good but I see too many line breaks made around him.
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I think he plays best at that 95kg mark. That's where he started when he came over. He was pretty quick & moved well. And if he was back to that, he'd be a great #13 size.

The extra bulk has limited his lateral movement.

That said- he's also one of the few that we have that likes to come FORWARD to the runner of the ball, instead of waiting for them. Unfortunately, if the players either side of a defender coming forward don't ALSO come forward- you create gaps.

But, he's an Energiser bunny, tackles all day & doesn't do dumb stuff. I don't see why he isn't in the mix, if we contemplate Bird, Seyfarth, Sione, Pole or even Latu for #13.

He's not a ball player, of note, but he saves you're interchanges for other positions & gives you a 3rd prop essentially.
 
AS for the additional ball player on the field- Bird in the second row can be the faux-Wade Graham until Galvin realises that's his spot.

Graham used to play wide, Bird can do the same. Let's Galvin or Luai the freedom to roam while keeping a ball player on either side of the field.
 
The Chad said:
I think he plays best at that 95kg mark. That's where he started when he came over. He was pretty quick & moved well. And if he was back to that, he'd be a great #13 size.

The extra bulk has limited his lateral movement.

That said- he's also one of the few that we have that likes to come FORWARD to the runner of the ball, instead of waiting for them. Unfortunately, if the players either side of a defender coming forward don't ALSO come forward- you create gaps.

But, he's an Energiser bunny, tackles all day & doesn't do dumb stuff. I don't see why he isn't in the mix, if we contemplate Bird, Seyfarth, Sione, Pole or even Latu for #13.

He's not a ball player, of note, but he saves you're interchanges for other positions & gives you a 3rd prop essentially.
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One moves forward while the rest stay back classic break in the defensive chain Chad needs to be hammered into them all off season if they are fitter than last year that will help with concentration.
 
I really like Latu at 13, but recent quotes from him said he has dropped the extra kgs he had pre Christmas so think that may be a pipe dream unless they want to use him as 14 and play some minutes there when the game speeds up. Excited to see what happens.
Reckon Matamua has all the tools just needs time to get it all together
 
The Chad said:
Play Bird out wider & Seyfarth in the middle? Play Twal at #13? Anyone that can stand up to the big guys coming at them & make 40-50 tackles a game.

I like Bird, but if he's not playing centre (my preference) then I'm defending him out wide.
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I did suggest him attacking in the middle and defending on an edge a while back. It is definitely an option; however, you would want to have a similar setup in cup so that the structures are the same. There is nothing to say that he plays as a ball playing lock in attack and as an edge defender. Let's say with Seyfarth doing the opposite and running good lines in attack and belting the big boys in defence. Twal could do the same.

Alternatively you play him positionally as an edge but have an attacking structure that has him playing as a link. This could easily be replicated in attack by Matamua in reggies.

Defensive game plans may also change depending on the opposition. I'm not that worried about Bird defending in the middle to be honest - if he can make the right reads at centre he wont have any troubles picking out who his man is in the middle.
 
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I just did a deeper dive on Bird. 23% of the games he has played have been as a second rower or lock. 6% at lock and 17% on an edge. So he has more experience as an edge, which you would expect given his background as a centre/five eight. So he clearly isn't going to be new to the concept.

He is also 96 kegs 183 cm (6'1") similar to Cam Murray in size and weight. He is certainly big enough to hold a bull out to piss so I think he should be able to hold his own in the middle. How we defend with him in the middle will be the same as how we would defend with Matamua there so it is good in that both grades should have a similar defensive setup.

The message I am taking from Bird to lock is that we will play a simple but more expansive game in attack. I don't expect us to have Romey on one side and Galvin on the other with Bird switching between the two. I get a feeling that we are more likely to see a lot of Romey and Galvin in support of each other with Bird as a link/inside option. There is a lot to like about our inside attacking options for 2025.

Our outside backs may just get the ball with a bit of time on their hands and an opposition having to make decisions on turning in or out at crucial times. When did we see that last?
 
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I think Matamua will start at lock and have a breakout year and Jack Bird will be playing in the second row where he belongs. Alex Seyfarth will be possibly be on the bench somewhere.
My forward pack and bench would be
Justin Matamua
Jack Bird
Samuela Fainu
Terrell May
Api Koroisau
Royce Hunt
Bench
Latu Fainu
Sione Fainu
Fonua Pole
David Klemmer/Alex Seyfarth

Not sure about who to pick between Klemmer and Seyfarth. I think Sione Fainu is a perfect replacement for Matamua when he gets tired as he also has some good ball skills and has potential to improve as a player.
 
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