OFFICIAL SG Ball Cup

[Bellend]

Watched the Magpies SG Ball R1 loss to the Eels last night. Not much to add to @Vicious report.

Was pretty disappointing but yes they were playing a dominant Eels team with a few game-breakers in it and the temperature was up to the mid 30s, so would have been pretty sapping for the boys especially on repeat sets against. They should have an alternate white jersey for days like that.

Anyway I couldn't go past our big 3 as our best, Havea Jr, Godinet & CTM. Havea Jr despite being built low to the ground has a great tackling technique and can snap opponents. This was on show as was his ball playing with a few nice short sharp passes.

Godinet & CTM were both strong without setting the world on fire. CTM can produce a hit though and came close to scoring a couple of tries with his runs close to the line.

The other player I thought tried hard was Curtis Lakeman. He organised our attack well, had a decent long kicking game & his effort in defence was tireless.

Underwhelming was Jhevon Lele, although he did lay on a try assist. He was very quiet especially in the 2nd half, pushed a few passes and seemed to drop in confidence. Maybe the reason he has been demoted to the bench this week.

And with the big 3 out of the team this week, it's going to to take a big lift in effort & attitude to beat the Knights who had a win last week.

Despite our outs, we do have promising prop Leviticus Tovia, backrower Teancam Epati coming in as well as Harry Bickhoff & Jake Gaffney rewarded for their early season form in Laurie Daley Cup.

Jhevon Lele Has the ability but not sure if he has the want/dedication, This year will interesting for him and a number of fringe potential players. West Tigers SG Ball seemed a step behind in fitness and skill level.

 

[Bellend]

Certainly wasn’t mocking. Just think it’s disingenuous on your part to leave out the most important piece of information (shoulder reco) while talking about his development slowing down.

Think both Large boys will play first grade at Manly it is only a matter of time. Their plan at Manly for both players was always on a slow steady paced development.

 

[Lestronge]

Certainly wasn’t mocking. Just think it’s disingenuous on your part to leave out the most important piece of information (shoulder reco) while talking about his development slowing down.

There’s nothing disingenuous at all . You’ve twisted what I said into something it’s not . You literally have now done it 3 times . So annoying

 

[Lestronge]

Take a chill pill mate. I’ll go further in depth for you below on what I meant.

The thing you are conveniently leaving out is Large is coming off an 8-9 month lay off due to a shoulder reconstruction. Hence why he took part in the SG Ball game on the weekend that you say he ‘dominated’ - match fitness in the only grade available since Flegg & Reserves haven’t started before he’s playing against men this Saturday.

After missing that amount of time due to a serious injury I don’t think it should come as a surprise to anyone if it takes a little longer to find himself in first grade.

As for your point on the Roosters player - Large was DENIED an exemption by the NRL last year to play at 17 unlike Sualii who you’ve mentioned. Even still he’ll be 1 of the youngest starters in this weekends trial games

Also, please tell me some of these ‘kids’ going into year 3 of NRL?

All of that has nothing to do with my original point . It’s irrelevant . And the players I was referring to were a year older . But originally he was supposed to leapfrog them all .
For the 💯 time . Get it in your head = generational! Thats the issue and the key word .
I’m sure he’s going to be a great player … but it’s not what I’m talking about . The literal point I was making , FOR THE NOW FORTH TIME, was about retention and recruitment of the club .
I hate when people do what you’re doing . Shifting the narrative away from my point to some nonsensical argument about whether the kids talented or not . In which case you’re arguing with yourself … it’s stupid .
Read what I have now written 4 time FFS.
My question about you being dense has yet to be answered that’s for sure …

 

[Juice]

All of that has nothing to do with my original point . It’s irrelevant . And the players I was referring to were a year older . But originally he was supposed to leapfrog them all .
For the 💯 time . Get it in your head = generational! Thats the issue and the key word .
I’m sure he’s going to be a great player … but it’s not what I’m talking about . The literal point I was making , FOR THE NOW FORTH TIME, was about retention and recruitment of the club .
I hate when people do what you’re doing . Shifting the narrative away from my point to some nonsensical argument about whether the kids talented or not . In which case you’re arguing with yourself … it’s stupid .
Read what I have now written 4 time FFS.
My question about you being dense has yet to be answered that’s for sure …

It’s a footy forum, calm down fella - not worth getting that worked up 😅. If you think I’m dense it’s no sweat off my shoulder.
Speaking of questions not being answered can you say who these players are going into year 3 of NRL now?

 

[Juice]

Think both Large boys will play first grade at Manly it is only a matter of time. Their plan at Manly for both players was always on a slow steady paced development.

Yea mate agreed, wether it’s League or Union both will be massively successful & make plenty of $

 

[Lestronge]

Think both Large boys will play first grade at Manly it is only a matter of time. Their plan at Manly for both players was always on a slow steady paced development.

💯 that’s not what’s being asked FFS! The question was around leveraging the club to hand the keys to a 16/17 year old .
Which people were losing thier minds a couple of years ago about .
For me I visualise it like a pyramid scheme. The top of the pyramid you get maybe 5 times every 5-10 years . Kids who debut at 18 , like Payne Hass , Benji , and just dominate .
Then just below is elite talent .. of which I think large falls into , where they’re usually established by 21 , but there’s also 20-30% who never kick on .
Then below that is above average players … they’re talented for sure but the jury is out . Guys like Munster , Cooper Cronk even Cam smith fall into this category . These guys are talented for sure but it’s all about work ethic , and luck, injuries , opportunity etc. If it all falls perfectly … they can become the top tier … thy can also end up playing Sydney Grade for 5 years .
Then theres the average players . Probably the strike rate here is 25% or worse . These guys can end up your Seyfarth types . Or things like growth spurt , position change , can move them up or down .
I’m purely commenting on that top tier .
You literally open the check book up and say “what do you want ?” .
I don’t think Onitoni is in that category anymore .
It wasn’t the case 2 years ago by most people’s assessments . It’s interesting …

 

[MothMan]

I personally still think we should’ve put more effort into retaining both the Large brothers. Galvin, Mason and Kit are all 2 years above Onitoni and 3 above Ashton. I think we bent over backwards to try and appease Galvin because he was already agitating for a release. We showed him that he was going to be the number one choice at the expense of the Large brothers and then got burnt anyway by Galvin. Nothing can be done about it now anyway but I think we’re still letting too many high potential local juniors get away. On the flip side, at least Makasini, Haywood and CTM are locked up.

 

[Lestronge]

I personally still think we should’ve put more effort into retaining both the Large brothers. Galvin, Mason and Kit are all 2 years above Onitoni and 3 above Ashton. I think we bent over backwards to try and appease Galvin because he was already agitating for a release. We showed him that he was going to be the number one choice at the expense of the Large brothers and then got burnt anyway by Galvin. Nothing can be done about it now anyway but I think we’re still letting too many high potential local juniors get away. On the flip side, at least Makasini, Haywood and CTM are locked up.

Agree . I would have loved to have kept him and his brother. Especially as his brother would have put real pressure on Heyward. I’m not sure if this is the truth or purely hypothetical but if it was an ultimatum put to the club , and they were in a position of do we give this kid what he wants , or more to it his agent the power/initiative now, to be honest what I was fearing they were gonna give Isaac and Galvin , I wonder what thought went into that decision . I’m personally glad we didn’t . Not because of some stupid idea around giving the power to players , but more giving it to the wrong players . Like Aaron woods is the prime person I think of , and Galvin to a lesser extent. We gave Aaron everything , and he just shat on the club. Ultimately because he didn’t give a shit about the club . Only himself .
The roosters kinda suffered the same fate with Sualiii . Ultimately it was about the person not the club. I think that’s important .
It’s not just about the talent but also the buy in . Like Turbo at manly. Or the Koori boys at souths. It’s not simply enough to have the most talented kid . He needs to want to be there . Otherwise the culture is shit . If we have learnt anything this past 13 years , I think you need the boys club to an extent .

 

[MothMan]

Agree . I would have loved to have kept him and his brother. Especially as his brother would have put real pressure on Heyward. I’m not sure if this is the truth or purely hypothetical but if it was an ultimatum put to the club , and they were in a position of do we give this kid what he wants , or more to it his agent the power/initiative now, to be honest what I was fearing they were gonna give Isaac and Galvin , I wonder what thought went into that decision . I’m personally glad we didn’t . Not because of some stupid idea around giving the power to players , but more giving it to the wrong players . Like Aaron woods is the prime person I think of , and Galvin to a lesser extent. We gave Aaron everything , and he just shat on the club. Ultimately because he didn’t give a shit about the club . Only himself .
The roosters kinda suffered the same fate with Sualiii . Ultimately it was about the person not the club. I think that’s important .
It’s not just about the talent but also the buy in . Like Turbo at manly. Or the Koori boys at souths. It’s not simply enough to have the most talented kid . He needs to want to be there . Otherwise the culture is shit . If we have learnt anything this past 13 years , I think you need the boys club to an extent .

From memory the talk at the time was that if Onitoni was to re-sign with the club he wanted a get out clause if Galvin was re-signed. The club knew they wanted to extend Galvin at the time so they knocked it back and Manly jumped on the brothers. Sounded like Galvin and Large wanted guarantees that they’d have a clear path to first grade and the others wouldn’t get in the way. For Galvin I think this was more about Latu and his connection with teammates too. Some of this could have just been media talk but it seems to make sense with how everything turned out.

 

[Lestronge]

From memory the talk at the time was that if Onitoni was to re-sign with the club he wanted a get out clause if Galvin was re-signed. The club knew they wanted to extend Galvin at the time so they knocked it back and Manly jumped on the brothers. Sounded like Galvin and Large wanted guarantees that they’d have a clear path to first grade and the others wouldn’t get in the way. For Galvin I think this was more about Latu and his connection with teammates too. Some of this could have just been media talk but it seems to make sense with how everything turned out.

I heard the Galvin rock kicking started when we brought the Fainus across. I wonder how much of that was Moses and Tartak related. But yea , the story I was told was the family was pissed off we got Latu. Mainly because Latu was first picked in nearly any rep team they ever participated in together .
With Large I think it’s way more complex though , as ultimately I think people see him as a centre .
Not too many Steven Chrichtons getting around where you build the club around him . Like I said , I’d love to have been a fly on the wall when that decision was being analysed.
Because if it was a one or the other type situation it would seem like a no brainer to let the family have the peace of mind .

 

[Vicious]

On the Onitoni and Ashton Large topic, they are currently off contract at the end of 2027.
It will be very interested tn see how Onitoni goes in the NRL trial this weekend and it will be interesting to see how he continues to develop, but I’m still adamant he should be transitioning to fullback to get the best out of his running game and exceptional speed.
If he extends his contract with Manly it won’t concern us, but I’m not ruling out the possibility of him returning to us if the right circumstances eventuate and a direct path to a regular NRL spot does not happen soon with the Sea Eagles.

 

[Lestronge]

On the Onitoni and Ashton Large topic, they are currently off contract at the end of 2027.
It will be very interested tn see how Onitoni goes in the NRL trial this weekend and it will be interesting to see how he continues to develop, but I’m still adamant he should be transitioning to fullback to get the best out of his running game in exceptional speed.
If he extends his contract with Manly it won’t concern us, but I’m not ruling out the possibility of him returning to us if the right circumstances eventuate and a direct path to a regular NRL spot does not happen soon with the Sea Eagles.

Which was my original point around decisions that got hijacked . I feel like we made the right choice , if it is going off a bit half cocked . As good as he is , I don’t think he was worth what potentially could have been a Pandora’s box . Not for players . But more their managers . I mean , we just came off 10 years of building the club around the wrong player. And I was very pro Luke Brooks. Like I said repeatedly , saying you don’t want to build around a player because he’s not generational is not the same thing as saying you think he’s shit . He’s got all the talent in the world . Doesn’t mean he’s the player you build around . At least not yet . But we were forced into having to make that choice on a 17 year old . Like I said a heap of times , there’s probably 10 players the last 20 or 30 years where you could confidently answer that question yes on a 17/18 year old . Which is an interesting shift , as when he was 16 people were adamant that he was next one . Now he’s gonna take some time . Which is fine . And probably better for him in the long run . But yea ..l like I said we did the same thing in 2013 based on one game . I’m sure Luke would have been better off with 2 years winning the Toyota cup .

 

[balmain boy]

Wests SG Ball were atrocious. Yes they were playing an excellent side but get, that's the point! Why don't we have an excellent side?
We lacked skill, speed, power. It was like men vs boys out there.
Our spine was very poor, doesn't look like there's any future prospects there. The entire back line was pedestrian.

Why, with all the juniors in the south west are we playing someone like Tiberti at fullback? We keep trying to find the next Shannon Gallant rather than the next Reece Walsh or latrell Mitchell. Vella has absolutely nothing too . Lanyon simply must be promoted immediately. Unless we're trying to protect him for a Wests side that may struggle to win a game all season.

For a club supposedly trying to build itself around it's juniors it's totally inexcusable for us to have such a lack of quality in both our Wests junior rep Squads.

CTM and Godinet struggled against a bigger and better SG Ball pack. How on earth are we throwing them into an NRL trial? Both are too small. CTM needs to put on another 5-6kgs of bulk at least. He's just easy too scrawny,beanpole that doesn't have the power gain buffer opponents. The potential is there, he just needs another year in the gym to fill out his frame. A year of flegg will do him the world of good.
Godinet has skills but wasn't involved much. Again too small to have much impact, but was solid. Havea is also tiny, was really hoping he'd have a growth spurt. There aren't many forwards in the NRL that are under 175cms, as Kit can attest to. His technique is good and he's still only 17, hopefully he keeps on developing.

We have to value speed, power and skill so much more than we do. We couldn't even do the basics right.

 

[Vicious]

Which was my original point around decisions that got hijacked . I feel like we made the right choice , if it is going off a bit half cocked . As good as he is , I don’t think he was worth what potentially could have been a Pandora’s box . Not for players . But more their managers . I mean , we just came off 10 years of building the club around the wrong player. And I was very pro Luke Brooks. Like I said repeatedly , saying you don’t want to build around a player because he’s not generational is not the same thing as saying you think he’s shit . He’s got all the talent in the world . Doesn’t mean he’s the player you build around . At least not yet . But we were forced into having to make that choice on a 17 year old . Like I said a heap of times , there’s probably 10 players the last 20 or 30 years where you could confidently answer that question yes on a 17/18 year old . Which is an interesting shift , as when he was 16 people were adamant that he was next one . Now he’s gonna take some time . Which is fine . And probably better for him in the long run . But yea ..l like I said we did the same thing in 2013 based on one game . I’m sure Luke would have been better off with 2 years winning the Toyota cup .

There is no doubt we have rushed too many of our young emerging players over the past few seasons and it has been to the detriment of some of them unfortunately.
Being a struggling club for so long, talented young players and their managers think they can place their demands and dictate to us, but some of them already have or will eventually realise that the grass is not always greener elsewhere.
This is why I keep saying our results this season are more crucial than ever, we can either explode or implode.
I think if we improve and make the top 8 we become a genuine destination club with a good young emerging roster, but if we go backwards from 2025 the criticism and deluge of bad media publicity will be worse than ever.

 

[balmain boy]

Balmain truly were excellent in their match against CC. Kudos to the church and players for the fine lerfomcany in both attack and defence. Sad they couldn't hold out another 30 seconds to keep them scoreless.

The halves, fullback and 14 were all very good. Isdale and Azzi were good and their combination will only improve after they only had a week together.

Van drie set the tone early but then disappeared for the rest of the game. The boy Fotu we signed from the warriors was decent too. He's not huge but looked skilful.

A very good team effort, reminiscent of last year's squad under Sultana.

 

[Lestronge]

There is no doubt we have rushed too many of our young emerging players over the past few seasons and it has been to the detriment of some of them unfortunately.
Being a struggling club for so long, talented young players and their managers think they can place their demands and dictate to us, but some of them already have or will eventually realise that the grass is not always greener elsewhere.
This is why I keep saying our results this season are more crucial than ever, we can either explode or implode.
I think if we improve and make the top 8 we become a genuine destination club with a good young emerging roster, but if we go backwards from 2025 the criticism and deluge of bad media publicity will be worse than ever.

I agree mate . It’s crucial we make some noise in this comp , and give it a shake . I’ve been big on the fact that wests tigers is not the club of choice for a lot of kids in MacArthur . And only through necessity are they wearing the jersey .
We need to capture those kids . And really winning is the easiest and most consistent way.

 

[Bellend]

💯 that’s not what’s being asked FFS! The question was around leveraging the club to hand the keys to a 16/17 year old .
Which people were losing thier minds a couple of years ago about .
For me I visualise it like a pyramid scheme. The top of the pyramid you get maybe 5 times every 5-10 years . Kids who debut at 18 , like Payne Hass , Benji , and just dominate .
Then just below is elite talent .. of which I think large falls into , where they’re usually established by 21 , but there’s also 20-30% who never kick on .
Then below that is above average players … they’re talented for sure but the jury is out . Guys like Munster , Cooper Cronk even Cam smith fall into this category . These guys are talented for sure but it’s all about work ethic , and luck, injuries , opportunity etc. If it all falls perfectly … they can become the top tier … thy can also end up playing Sydney Grade for 5 years .
Then theres the average players . Probably the strike rate here is 25% or worse . These guys can end up your Seyfarth types . Or things like growth spurt , position change , can move them up or down .
I’m purely commenting on that top tier .
You literally open the check book up and say “what do you want ?” .
I don’t think Onitoni is in that category anymore .
It wasn’t the case 2 years ago by most people’s assessments . It’s interesting …

It is very interesting to see how Onitoni does develop over the next 12 months there are good judges in Union who think he would be a better player in their system.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

On the Onitoni and Ashton Large topic, they are currently off contract at the end of 2027.
It will be very interested tn see how Onitoni goes in the NRL trial this weekend and it will be interesting to see how he continues to develop, but I’m still adamant he should be transitioning to fullback to get the best out of his running game and exceptional speed.
If he extends his contract with Manly it won’t concern us, but I’m not ruling out the possibility of him returning to us if the right circumstances eventuate and a direct path to a regular NRL spot does not happen soon with the Sea Eagles.

Example - Bula quits - Large transitions to fullback - better than Attard, Kanaan, Brooks etc?

 

[Vicious]

Example - Bula quits - Large transitions to fullback - better than Attard, Kanaan, Brooks etc?

Onitoni Large has ball running qualities of an elite fullback with his natural ability to split or burn defenders with his sheer speed.
With his insistence to play 6 we may never know.
On the fullback topic, hopefully we have some elite talent within with the likes of Jack Attard, Logan Brookes, Riley Oittman and being the SG Ball thread, Kayden Kanaan who has started the season with a bang, all being players who can at the very least apply pressure for higher opportunities sooner than later.
If they don’t go to plan there is always an abundance of fullback talent emerging elsewhere.