Sheens future Safe at Wests Tigers

[southerntiger]

we all look at things a different way.

i look at the 80's as a balmain supporter as my worst as a football supporter.
i never want to go through back to back grand final losses again.
i've never watched a replay of either game and never will.

for me as a supporter it is all about the lap of honor at the grand final.
anything else is a failure.
doesn't mean i won't support them when they suck.it doesn't mean good things didn't happen in player development or off the field.

if you care more about finals football then of course you have every right to want sheens gone.

one question though

what value do you put on having 1 home ground?
what is it worth to be able to play where the majority of your fans want to be.is it worth more than having to go to say,New Zealand to play the warriors.
this is another thing people fail to look at when they look at the sheens longmuir spat.
the whole business vs football debate is right here.
i doubt we would have seen extra games at our traditional grounds this year if longmuir was still here.

if premierships are the most important thing,then you have to see a coach with a style/system you believe can win you a premiership.
after 05 the game changed and while it is hard to change your squad when you are committed to contracts, i do think sheens screwed up by not following the wrestle mania league.
this is something i would have been talking to sheens about when considering his last contract.

since the shock of the 10 win 06 season we have painfully crawled to 11 win seasons in 07 and 08 and then 12 wins last season.
the feeling seems to be that this season will see an increase in the win column.i also think the future looks bright with the players we have on contract past this year.

last year we were equal 1st in tries scored.the year before we were 5th.
defense is where i am really interested to see if the back end of last year was building momentum for this year or simply a team taking advantage of wounded teams limping home.
yet,in the end we were equal 6th in tries against.

when you look at last years stats it certainly shows a team that was unlucky not to make the finals.
but it doesn't mean much in the end,bit like making finals football and not winning the big one.
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i don't think we had the right players since 06 with the way the game was played.
not sure we are there yet in regards to being a title contender this year,but i think we are steered in the right direction and very close.
if we are a title contender,then with sheens record in finals football he must be the man for the job.

yep. for me finals football is nothing if the side is not a chance of winning the big one. With Sheens you will always give your side a chance of winning the GF if they make the finals.

When Chris Anderson took over at the Sharks he said that the club had a culture of mediocrity which was holding them back from winning the GF. They were content to simply make the finals. I am not a huge Anderson fan but agreed completely with him on this point. People who think making the finals indicates a successful year are, in my view, the ones who accept mediocrity.

I am more interested in building a side that can win the comp, even if that means a few lean years. We went through the lean years, invested in youth and, I believe, are about to reap the rewards.

I understand your point, but not making the top 8 of a 16 team competition is a failure, simple as that. Last year just as an example Newcastle managed to make the 8\. Are Newcastle a better side than us? I highly doubt it.

You can blame injuries, but after a while the excuses start to wear thin. To not make the semi finals for four years running when I believe we've had a side capable of finishing in the top half of a relatively standard competition is not good enough. No I do not expect us to win the competition every year, but to not be able to finish in the top half with the players we have isn't acceptable, IMO.

I also think Sheens should EARN his new contract with the teams performances on the field, not have it handed to him on a platter again. Why do we need to re-sign him again, before we even kick a ball in 2010? Why can't he earn a new contract by getting us to the semis?

I just want to know one thing: if we again don't make the 8, would you people still want Sheens to be coaching us again in 2011?

I am extremely confident in making the 8 this year but my answer would probably be no. In my view, in the last two years we have been building for this year. I am excited.

 

[Knuckles]

I just want to know one thing: if we again don't make the 8, would you people still want Sheens to be coaching us again in 2011?
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G'day HT,

Definite Yes for me ….. I guess I'm in the old school that says players lose football matches not the coach. We've come a long way under Tim Sheens and unless you can provide a better alternative, I will stick with Tim for 2011 win lose or draw.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

My question to you is,if we do make the 8,will you and your bretheren stop whining???

Yes or no simon, it's a simple question.

And the use of a forum is to voice opinion. You're entitled to call it whinging if it suits you, but I couldn't really care less.

 

[southerntiger]

Hybrid,

Simon actually makes a good point. If we made the 8 this year, would you let Sheens stay and if so, for how long? How long will simply making the finals be considered acceptable?

 

[Geo]

Those wanting to wait to see what eventuates in 2010 before the decision is made…

Here's a question ...

What position will the Club be in as far as forward planning goes? What player/s would want to come to a Club when they have no idea who the Coach is going to be!!!!

Ricky Stuart is the only other NRL coach off contract......Pass

Give Sheens his 1 year Contract extention...If he fails in 2010...Sheens will move on....He has aready said as much...then all your pain will be over!!!!

Word of warning to the new bloke but...Instant success..... ie qualifying for the finals from the get go...Or prepare to Duck....

Sheens offers more to our Club than just wins/losses...

 

[Granto87]

Those wanting to wait to see what eventuates in 2010 before the decision is made…

Here's a question ...

What position will the Club be in as far as forward planning goes? What player/s would want to come to a Club when they have no idea who the Coach is going to be!!!!

Ricky Stuart is the only other NRL coach off contract......Pass

Give Sheens his 1 year Contract extention...If he fails in 2010...Sheens will move on....He has aready said as much...then all your pain will be over!!!!

Word of warning to the new bloke but...Instant success..... ie qualifying for the finals from the get go...Or prepare to Duck....
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Sheens offers more to our Club than just wins/losses...

Well put mate

 

[Frazer4Wests]

I feel a sure sign sheens is staying is the fact that benji signed for a long period.

Sheens will sign a 4 year deal before the season starts.

 

[bonstonker]

To not make the semi finals for four years running when I believe we've had a side capable of finishing in the top half of a relatively standard competition is not good enough. No I do not expect us to win the competition every year, but to not be able to finish in the top half with the players we have isn't acceptable, IMO.

I also think Sheens should EARN his new contract with the teams performances on the field, not have it handed to him on a platter again. Why do we need to re-sign him again, before we even kick a ball in 2010? Why can't he earn a new contract by getting us to the semis?

I just want to know one thing: if we again don't make the 8, would you people still want Sheens to be coaching us again in 2011?

hybrid,i honestly can't remember a season where you have said the team would make the 8.
you have moaned about how terrible our recruitment has been for years.
what you say here and in the past doesn't add up.

as far as earning his next contract.
is it really good management to wait until we know if we are semi final bound or not.
sounds crazy to me in the world of the nrl.if it was the nfl i would agree with you.

no point in waiting.we could start like 05 and finish like 05 and sack a premiership winning coach.
we could start like the cowboys did last year and finish like them and sign a coach who has missed the finals.
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a board member should know right now.
they know the salary cap position and also the things sheens may have asked for in the past but haven't been able to provide.
they also know what he asked for and what was provided.
he has been here long enough for them to decide if he is capable of winning us a premiership or not over the next few years.

 

[bonstonker]

You always write a good post Bon …....

you really do settle for mediocrity :laughing:

 

[TheSunTanSuperman]

To not make the semi finals for four years running when I believe we've had a side capable of finishing in the top half of a relatively standard competition is not good enough. No I do not expect us to win the competition every year, but to not be able to finish in the top half with the players we have isn't acceptable, IMO.

I also think Sheens should EARN his new contract with the teams performances on the field, not have it handed to him on a platter again. Why do we need to re-sign him again, before we even kick a ball in 2010? Why can't he earn a new contract by getting us to the semis?

I just want to know one thing: if we again don't make the 8, would you people still want Sheens to be coaching us again in 2011?

hybrid,i honestly can't remember a season where you have said the team would make the 8.
you have moaned about how terrible our recruitment has been for years.
what you say here and in the past doesn't add up.

as far as earning his next contract.
is it really good management to wait until we know if we are semi final bound or not.
sounds crazy to me in the world of the nrl.if it was the nfl i would agree with you.

no point in waiting.we could start like 05 and finish like 05 and sack a premiership winning coach.
we could start like the cowboys did last year and finish like them and sign a coach who has missed the finals.
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a board member should know right now.
they know the salary cap position and also the things sheens may have asked for in the past but haven't been able to provide.
they also know what he asked for and what was provided.
he has been here long enough for them to decide if he is capable of winning us a premiership or not over the next few years.

Tell me about it. All you ever hear from that bloke is how awful our side is, how crap our recruitment has been.

Now he comes out and says, with a tear in his eye, that he believes we've had a side that should be in the 8? :laughing:

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Hybrid,

Simon actually makes a good point. If we made the 8 this year, would you let Sheens stay and if so, for how long? How long will simply making the finals be considered acceptable?

Depends how far we get in the 8 really, if we made it to the second last week then I would probably be inclined to give him another year or two as he would have earnt it based on 2010 performance. But to hand him another contract now before a ball has even been kicked is just ridiculous.

Take your point about good management r.e a contract, so what is wrong with an OPTION for another year or two depending on performance in 2010? A performance/incentive based contract that requires certain achievements to be activated. What I don't want is another three years just thrown about like it was in 2007\. Of course you remember his last extension, it came just after we had just limped out of finals contention losing against Newcastle at home in what was one of our worst performances under Sheens. He did not deserve an extension, in fact at that time IMO is when the whole place needed a broom put through it, but as you know that never happened. I just don't want to see another situation like that, where basically we can't afford to pay him out even if the board wanted him to move on.

Yes, our recruitment has largely been crap, however we have still had the likes of Marshall, Farah, Lawrence, Galloway (one of the few good buys) etc. I haven't expected us to win the comp, however I did not expect four years without finishing in the top half of the comp with the players we've had. Our squad was not good enough to win the comp in the last couple of years, however it WAS good enough to at least finish 8th out of just 16 teams and I will always maintain this, even despite our pathetic recruitment.

As for this year, well honestly if we can't make the top half of the comp with the current squad then I can't see a single, valid reason why anyone should want Sheens to remain beyond 2010\. It is just incomprehensible.

 

[clontarfkid]

Sheens has pretty much got the squad that he wants,so anything short of top 8 for the 5th consecutive year has got to be considered an outright failure surely.
From there youve got to assess the teams competitiveness in the finals(eg did we get beaten in extra time by the eventual premiers?),the impact of injuries (relative to other club seg did we lose both Benji & Farah for our final game?),& perhaps most importantly of all was the team playing at the end of the season with pride in their performances..They certainly werent in 08)
So there lots of variables,but the very first criterion is to actually participate at the business end of the season,which would be a refreshing change
Im not that interested in "stability" or "consistency" or "Sheens offers more than just wins or losses"…their simply apologies Try using those lines to yr CEO & see how far they get you.

 

[innsaneink]

LOL…isnt Brian Smith a suitable candidate....suits their arguments perfectly.

Theres also guys like Bennett, Bellamy & Hasler, they too get their teams to the semis regulalry, very regularly...and win it occasionally.

Give yourselves an uppercut guys....you gotta make the bloody semis first to give urself a shot at the title, :unamused: at least Smith does that....but keep stuickin up for a guy that has done it one season out of his last twelve

 

[gallagher]

LOL…isnt Brian Smith a suitable candidate....suits their arguments perfectly.

Theres also guys like Bennett, Bellamy & Hasler, they too get their teams to the semis regulalry, very regularly...and win it occasionally.

Give yourselves an uppercut guys....you gotta make the bloody semis first to give urself a shot at the title, :unamused: at least Smith does that....but keep stuickin up for a guy that has done it one season out of his last twelve

Wow, 3 names you came up with. I take you think Sheens is number 4 coach in the NRL then. I'd still take his 1 in 12 to Smiths 0 in 12\. But you fee l free to get right behind your chooks.

 

[innsaneink]

Whatever champ…..dont miss.

 

[Properossi]

Wests Tigers 100% strike rate in the finals Great work TIM! Keep it up!

 

[Balmain_Bug]

Wow some interesting points of view here. (P.S. I am not John from 2SM talkin sport) hahaha.

I supported Wests in the bad years. The coach picked the best players in their best positions. I never had a problem with the coaches then.

 

[tomcat]

NICE , BUG

 

[Geo]

See …Bug proves my point.....You refer to Wests lack of success as bad years...

As a kid in 1974 all the way up till 1999 they weren't bad years to me the where Glory Days.....Every victory over the more fancied Rivals was sweet as.....Even with all the spoons in the draw......As for team selections Why Tommy kept picking Georgalis in the halves is beyond me...His best position was Lock...

Now as Wests Tigers...No spoons and 2 trophies,,,,mediocraty....pfft

 

[Jazza]

A little off topic but Sheens has been voted in the Telegraph the 3rd best coach in the comp behind last years minor premier and premier coaches.

Lets compare, Hasler took over Manly in 04 who finished 2nd bottom in 03, since then he has taken them to 2 grand finals (1 minor premiership) with 5 finals series (05, 06, 07, 08, 09) from 6 seasons coached.

Sheens took over in 03, took us to 1 grand final, meaning one finals series (05) from 7 seasons coached.

Both coaches took over with their sides at rock bottom with Manly just coming out of a joint venture and Sheens in a troubled joint venture.

I dont think another contract would justify the results that Sheens has produced. I desperately hope we have a big year because despite the results, Sheens has done a lot for this club off the field and with the clubs culture. But part of this business is producing results and we cant keep finishing 9th every year.