innsaneink
Well-known member
@Geo. said:
You cannot really compare something that is a one in two chance of happening up against a one in sixteen chance
Sheens future Safe at Wests Tigers
- Thread starter Buckets_of_blood
- Start date
You cannot really compare something that is a one in two chance of happening up against a one in sixteen chance
@innsaneink said:
:laughing: Ok Innk…nice colours too..
What about this.....What do they play for?
If you don't win it .....then it's a FAIL....who came 8th in 2002?
gallagher
Well-known member
@innsaneink said:
In that case you should start supporting Brian Smith rather than a club. He gets his club to the semi's most years, that should make you happy. Who needs a premiership win hey?I think you the one who like mediocrity. B Smith, he's your man
hybrid_tiger
Well-known member
@gallagher said:
Smith has a better win percentage than Sheens.
There are not many coaches who could have taken a mediocre side like Newcastle to the semi-finals. The bagging B.Smith cops is not warranted - yes he has not won a comp, but he is a very good coach.
Before he coached Parramatta they were an absolute rabble. Aside from one or two years they made the semis and were a force most years.
He rebuilt Newcastle after Johns - they had a mediocre roster (much worse than ours last year for example) yet still made the semis.
And you can put money on the Roosters making the 8 this year after finishing with the spoon last season.
If we don't make the 8 this year with the current roster and anyone still thinks Sheens should remain then you need your heads read, seriously.
TheSunTanSuperman
New member
@Geo. said:
Exactly, mate.
If someone had said to me on Dec 31st 1999 "OK, the Tigers are gonna make the 8 once this decade, but they'll win the comp when they do", I'd have taken it in a heartbeat, and the same goes for this current decade.
I love having a club I am truly passionate about to support every weekend in winter. I love clapping my hands till their blood red after a tigers try. I love the euphoria after a win, it's the same feeling whether you're at the ground, watching the TV or listening to the radio.
Would I like the club to make the 8 every year? Definitely! But the club where it is at this point in time, thanks largely to people like Tim Sheens, has a hell of a lot more good going for it than bad.
TheSunTanSuperman
New member
I love how people use Sheens' winning % as a gauge.
Cy Young has the most Losses for any pitcher in Major League baseball history…..but he also has the most wins.
Cy Young has the most Losses for any pitcher in Major League baseball history…..but he also has the most wins.
gallagher
Well-known member
@hybrid_tiger said:
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Like I said to Ink I'd say your the one who likes mediocrity. Sheens' 7 years with us for 1 premiership/1 semi's appearance is way better than Smiyths 10 odd years at parra with no premierships but countless semis. They both started coaching at the top level in about 84/85, 4 premierships to nil atm. He is mediocre at its best.
And I agree with you that the chooks will make the 8, but you wanna bet they dont win the comp? I'd say even you think we have a btter chance.
Aladinsane
New member
@Balmain Bug said:
Hey "John" , sorry BB, the boys on Talkin' Sport really gave you a roasting last night…..are you going to take Grahame's advice and give the Tiger's CEO a call mate, or take their other suggestion of following another team....which is really unthinkable for a passionate fan like you, I know.
I have to say, a hell of a lot what you say make's sense ......you only have to look at the replay of the Manly game last year on how well that 1, 6 & 7 combination of Gallant, Benji & Moltz work out , but your fruitless bashing of Sheens( who is human stubborn man, we all know) is getting you nowhere, as he is not going anywhere fast.....so just give it a rest....especially at the start of a great season like 2010.
PS, I am sure the Man would be more than happy to have a quiet conversation with you this Saturday at the members training session at Concord. I love to watch two great coaches go head to head , mano e mano to the bloodly end!! :wink:
There's that word again …..... Mediocre or the noun mediocrity.
In the dictionary mediocre means neither good nor bad; ordinary
I still can't reconcile myself to Wests Tigers and mediocrity. If their style of play was bash and barge like say Easts for example and need a lucky kick to score a try then I'm more inclined to agree. But the Wests Tigers play such a refreshing, open and exciting style of football, I would label them anything but mediocre. And the players coming through the grades like Mullaney and Dwyer and Fifita brothers etc ...... if that doesn't excite then I'm not sure what does.
In the dictionary mediocre means neither good nor bad; ordinary
I still can't reconcile myself to Wests Tigers and mediocrity. If their style of play was bash and barge like say Easts for example and need a lucky kick to score a try then I'm more inclined to agree. But the Wests Tigers play such a refreshing, open and exciting style of football, I would label them anything but mediocre. And the players coming through the grades like Mullaney and Dwyer and Fifita brothers etc ...... if that doesn't excite then I'm not sure what does.
bonstonker
New member
we all look at things a different way.
i look at the 80's as a balmain supporter as my worst as a football supporter.
i never want to go through back to back grand final losses again.
i've never watched a replay of either game and never will.
for me as a supporter it is all about the lap of honor at the grand final.
anything else is a failure.
doesn't mean i won't support them when they suck.it doesn't mean good things didn't happen in player development or off the field.
if you care more about finals football then of course you have every right to want sheens gone.
one question though
what value do you put on having 1 home ground?
what is it worth to be able to play where the majority of your fans want to be.is it worth more than having to go to say,New Zealand to play the warriors.
this is another thing people fail to look at when they look at the sheens longmuir spat.
the whole business vs football debate is right here.
i doubt we would have seen extra games at our traditional grounds this year if longmuir was still here.
if premierships are the most important thing,then you have to see a coach with a style/system you believe can win you a premiership.
after 05 the game changed and while it is hard to change your squad when you are committed to contracts, i do think sheens screwed up by not following the wrestle mania league.
this is something i would have been talking to sheens about when considering his last contract.
since the shock of the 10 win 06 season we have painfully crawled to 11 win seasons in 07 and 08 and then 12 wins last season.
the feeling seems to be that this season will see an increase in the win column.i also think the future looks bright with the players we have on contract past this year.
last year we were equal 1st in tries scored.the year before we were 5th.
defense is where i am really interested to see if the back end of last year was building momentum for this year or simply a team taking advantage of wounded teams limping home.
yet,in the end we were equal 6th in tries against.
when you look at last years stats it certainly shows a team that was unlucky not to make the finals.
but it doesn't mean much in the end,bit like making finals football and not winning the big one.
\
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i don't think we had the right players since 06 with the way the game was played.
not sure we are there yet in regards to being a title contender this year,but i think we are steered in the right direction and very close.
if we are a title contender,then with sheens record in finals football he must be the man for the job.
i look at the 80's as a balmain supporter as my worst as a football supporter.
i never want to go through back to back grand final losses again.
i've never watched a replay of either game and never will.
for me as a supporter it is all about the lap of honor at the grand final.
anything else is a failure.
doesn't mean i won't support them when they suck.it doesn't mean good things didn't happen in player development or off the field.
if you care more about finals football then of course you have every right to want sheens gone.
one question though
what value do you put on having 1 home ground?
what is it worth to be able to play where the majority of your fans want to be.is it worth more than having to go to say,New Zealand to play the warriors.
this is another thing people fail to look at when they look at the sheens longmuir spat.
the whole business vs football debate is right here.
i doubt we would have seen extra games at our traditional grounds this year if longmuir was still here.
if premierships are the most important thing,then you have to see a coach with a style/system you believe can win you a premiership.
after 05 the game changed and while it is hard to change your squad when you are committed to contracts, i do think sheens screwed up by not following the wrestle mania league.
this is something i would have been talking to sheens about when considering his last contract.
since the shock of the 10 win 06 season we have painfully crawled to 11 win seasons in 07 and 08 and then 12 wins last season.
the feeling seems to be that this season will see an increase in the win column.i also think the future looks bright with the players we have on contract past this year.
last year we were equal 1st in tries scored.the year before we were 5th.
defense is where i am really interested to see if the back end of last year was building momentum for this year or simply a team taking advantage of wounded teams limping home.
yet,in the end we were equal 6th in tries against.
when you look at last years stats it certainly shows a team that was unlucky not to make the finals.
but it doesn't mean much in the end,bit like making finals football and not winning the big one.
\
\
i don't think we had the right players since 06 with the way the game was played.
not sure we are there yet in regards to being a title contender this year,but i think we are steered in the right direction and very close.
if we are a title contender,then with sheens record in finals football he must be the man for the job.
southerntiger
New member
@gallagher said:
Agreed. Smith's greatest flaw as a coach is that he is over disciplined. He doesnt like players to play their natural game which is why he struggles to win big games where the deciding factor is often natural brilliance. Sheens is different. He develops a program and tactics to suit his cattle. I know who I would prefer.
southerntiger
New member
@bonstonker said:
yep. for me finals football is nothing if the side is not a chance of winning the big one. With Sheens you will always give your side a chance of winning the GF if they make the finals.
When Chris Anderson took over at the Sharks he said that the club had a culture of mediocrity which was holding them back from winning the GF. They were content to simply make the finals. I am not a huge Anderson fan but agreed completely with him on this point. People who think making the finals indicates a successful year are, in my view, the ones who accept mediocrity.
I am more interested in building a side that can win the comp, even if that means a few lean years. We went through the lean years, invested in youth and, I believe, are about to reap the rewards.
You always write a good post Bon …..... its hard not to agree with what you have said.
For me its not all about making the semi finals whereas for other fans, anything less than a finals berth is a failure. When I buy my season ticket I want to be entertained. I also want my team to win and do well. But I'm realistic enough to know that won't always happen. There's a plethora of reason you can look at like the one ground you mention, the lack of money from the clubs, the coaches decisions, the GM of the day etc etc. If the sole criteria for labelling the club a failure or mediocre is the number of times we make the semi finals then of course the answer is yes. But in terms of supporting a good club and the entertainment it provides (value for money) and the fact they have been competitive in most years since they began and now play the most attractive football in the league, make them anything but a failure or mediocre in my black, white and gold eyes.
For me its not all about making the semi finals whereas for other fans, anything less than a finals berth is a failure. When I buy my season ticket I want to be entertained. I also want my team to win and do well. But I'm realistic enough to know that won't always happen. There's a plethora of reason you can look at like the one ground you mention, the lack of money from the clubs, the coaches decisions, the GM of the day etc etc. If the sole criteria for labelling the club a failure or mediocre is the number of times we make the semi finals then of course the answer is yes. But in terms of supporting a good club and the entertainment it provides (value for money) and the fact they have been competitive in most years since they began and now play the most attractive football in the league, make them anything but a failure or mediocre in my black, white and gold eyes.
simonthetiger
New member
@Knuckles said:
Well said,I agree completely with all that.
I would like to add its for this reason I love supprting Balmain in the 80's…..we went form a nuffie team,to a real contender and were there abouts for about a decade.I know losing the gf's sucked,but gee that pack of forwards we had were gold and I loved watching them put it over other sides,especially in big games.
Great times for me.
hybrid_tiger
Well-known member
@southerntiger said:
I understand your point, but not making the top 8 of a 16 team competition is a failure, simple as that. Last year just as an example Newcastle managed to make the 8\. Are Newcastle a better side than us? I highly doubt it.
You can blame injuries, but after a while the excuses start to wear thin. To not make the semi finals for four years running when I believe we've had a side capable of finishing in the top half of a relatively standard competition is not good enough. No I do not expect us to win the competition every year, but to not be able to finish in the top half with the players we have isn't acceptable, IMO.
I also think Sheens should EARN his new contract with the teams performances on the field, not have it handed to him on a platter again. Why do we need to re-sign him again, before we even kick a ball in 2010? Why can't he earn a new contract by getting us to the semis?
I just want to know one thing: if we again don't make the 8, would you people still want Sheens to be coaching us again in 2011?
If we don't make the 8 this year then I'd be telling Tim he has 2011 and that's it.
Give the benefit of the doubt, we've been unlucky and are finally coming good.
No excuses.
Give the benefit of the doubt, we've been unlucky and are finally coming good.
No excuses.
simonthetiger
New member
My question to you is,if we do make the 8,will you and your bretheren stop whining???
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