Sheens

[Geo]

Bug

Well at least this time you put some decent arguements forward rather than the rantings of an angry lunatic….

Are you happy ???? Yes

Now before you go off about accepting mediocrity I'll clarify why...

I am definately not happy missing the finals for the last 3 years and probably realstically this year..but then I objectively look at each season and Sheens with all his faults and actually wonder what would have happened if we didn't have Sheens...

Before he came here we were a rabble much like the foundation clubs a lot off us still cherish...

He had to deal with the factional infighting at board level....A playing roster whilst talented, some may argue just as talented as now... performed much worse than the last 3 years...from 2000 to '04 we where no hope of making the 8 really apart from perhaps 2000...

Then comes '05 fluke or not Sheens timed the run to perfection...We got the prize based on a playing roster of experience and youth...Sheens then showed way to much faith in those young players....Recruitment decisions that are a lottery for most clubs on the level playing field....Morris, Payne, etc that just didn't come off.....Injuries played their part yes ...but all clubs have to overcome them...but have a close look those clubs that have performed consistanly haven't had the Marquee players that we have had on the side line over the past 3 years...

Lastly but just as importantly off the field....Might not be important to you or others Bug but when was the last time a Wests Tigers player a la Field and Buddha or the current crop of NRL stars, appeared in the Media for all the wrong reasons....Sheens culture does not allow it....

I support the Wests Tigers club...I love them.....I'll support Sheens while he is our Coach....I'll support whichever player pulls on the jumper....I'm more than happy to do that...It's easy really

If you can come up with a viable alternative that offers just as much as Sheens then I'll join your crusade...until then just enjoy the ride....I know 1 thing this year they are going to fight to the death......

 

[simonthetiger]

I have a question to pose to all of the Sheens doubters… When he deconstructs a game in the post match press confeence have you ever disagreed with any of his insightful recollections of the game? I know that I haven't, he gets it spot on everytime. With this in mind I believe that his reading of the game is second to none, his tactics and style of play that he has brought to the Tigers is apt for the cattle that we have and the only major thing that he hasn't been able to control is a waywad last pass or an or inopportune moment that we drop the ball. Short of itroducing velcro gloves to the NRL (he is an innovator, i bet he has thought of doing it) then i don't know what more he could do? Two years ago we were getting stomped on because we didn't have a pack, now we have a bigger more mobile pack than ever in the West TIgers history, it more than holds it's own and guess what? it is all signed up until at least the end of 2011 because of Sheens. With this kind of base he is looking to develop more young back's in the guise of Moltzen & Ayshford to support Benji, whilst jettisoning the deadwood. Tigers are moving upwards, make no mistake about it. Sheens has been making the big decisions and is lagely responsible for this evolution and mark my words it will end in glory, hopefully sooner rather than later so as to appease a few of the more pessamistic supporters that i come across on this forum.

SimonTheTigers Flatmate...

 

[MGB]

He should be under pressure due to his track record over the past three seasons….......allthough things have started to turn around this season, defence has improved considerably and our forwards are starting to get into the game. A lot of people talk about a lack of consistency but I have seen fairly consistent efforts this season, we haven't gotten the result as often as I would have liked but we have been in just about every game bar a couple.
We are definately a better side this season, just not sure that is enough especially when a lot of the changes have been very obvious to many for some time. If the team is improving that's all anyone can expect, so maybe a case of don't fix what aint broke but missing the eight again if that does happen is not good enough by a long shot.

 

[crouching_tiger]

Lastly but just as importantly off the field….Might not be important to you or others Bug but when was the last time a Wests Tigers player a la Field and Buddha or the current crop of NRL stars, appeared in the Media for all the wrong reasons....Sheens culture does not allow it....

:laughing:

Laffranchi rape allegations incident…Gibbs taxi runner incident...Gibbs raceday police altercation incident...Marshall Coffs Harbour altercation incident...Marshall Kings X nightclub altercation incident...

 

[dimitri]

Does the end result determine whether a person should be retained or sacked?

For me, this is comparable to asking Sheens to dig a trench in a calendar year that is 50metres long, 20metres deep, 5metres wide and in clay. He is given shovels, picks, jackhammers and a small crew to assist.

Halfway through the year and 3/4 of the way to finishing this project, the picks and shovels are taken away and the jack hammer breaks. He then attempts to finish the trench with whatever he can, be it his hands sticks or whatever he can get hold of.

Do you sack him because he didnt finish digging the trench to the required dimensions or do you say fair effort given the circumstances?

No difference to what the coach and the team has achieved this year.

 

[supercoach]

For the first time since 2005 I think we have some reason to be slightly optimistic and with one year left on his contract it would not make sense to show him the door. Come next year he may decide to take up another job elsewhere so come 2011 we may have to look for another coach anyway.

Although to they do something about the front row we will always be a fringe eight team. This year we injected a top shelve player into the forwards and they looked so much better, if we can give Ellis a couple of mates we will be close to unstoppable. Thats why I cant understand us signing Brown and the guy from the penny panthers. I have said a million times Sheens can coach, but he has come up with some interesting calls and has been very slow to react to many things over the past few years.

Back to the original post –-did he cost us a win against parra--no way--injuries,tough calls and some brain dead options taken by a few players were the reason

 

[MGB]

Does the end result determine whether a person should be retained or sacked?

For me, this is comparable to asking Sheens to dig a trench in a calendar year that is 50metres long, 20metres deep, 5metres wide and in clay. He is given shovels, picks, jackhammers and a small crew to assist.

Halfway through the year and 3/4 of the way to finishing this project, the picks and shovels are taken away and the jack hammer breaks. He then attempts to finish the trench with whatever he can, be it his hands sticks or whatever he can get hold of.

Do you sack him because he didnt finish digging the trench to the required dimensions or do you say fair effort given the circumstances?

The contractor would be sacked or sued for not fullfilling their requirement regardless of the reason, the builder/developer doesn't care about reasons just about end results…and any costs they incur due to the job not being completed or running behind schedule. Trench diggers/coaches alike know there is an element of risk in anything and generally have contingency plans in place. I'm not saying that should neccessarily be the same when it comes to this situation I can see both sides, especially as the team is improving. But the track record is a worry. If it was up to me I would keep Sheens on a very tight leash, obviously a very clever and tactically brilliant coach I just think some of the team selections have been due to stubborness which had cost the side a lot. Some of these changes that have made a massive difference over the past two months have been obvious to many for a long time. You gotta ask why this has been allowed to happen?

 

[tiger05]

Sheens has failed dismally with regards to picking Morris in the halves for the past 3 years. He has retified that this year but unless we make the finals it is too little too late.

After stating the obvious I think the flip side is that Sheens has been a fantastic coach/manager for this club. We have a good squad of players (an extra prop and it is real good), we have a real good public image & our performances since Sheens wake up call have been where they should be.

Next point is that he is staying here next year no matter what and I have no problems with that.

After next year comes the crunch point - I'd like him to stay however he has to get his team selections right & get them right earlier - it doesn't have to be perfect but major blunders ala Morris are unacceptable.

 

[southerntiger]

That is a fair criticism. Although to be honest for the last 2 years Sheens has recognised the Morris experiment failed (hence the Mathew Head and Benji moves) but we havent had a lot of options at the club. In my view, the club was right to not invest in Head. On his day he can be a great player but he wasnt the long term solution at halfback IMHO (an opinion that seems to be shared by Bennett).

 

[Geo]

Lastly but just as importantly off the field….Might not be important to you or others Bug but when was the last time a Wests Tigers player a la Field and Buddha or the current crop of NRL stars, appeared in the Media for all the wrong reasons....Sheens culture does not allow it....

:laughing:

Laffranchi rape allegations incident…Gibbs taxi runner incident...Gibbs raceday police altercation incident...Marshall Coffs Harbour altercation incident...Marshall Kings X nightclub altercation incident...

Laffranchi>>>>>gone…. but was he convicted No...... and who was in his corner all along seem to remember Noyce at the trail even though he was at the Titans at the time.....You compare Gibbs running away from a taxi and getting too drunk at the races.... how long ago was that anyway...to Stewart, Inglis, Myles, Bird, etc the list goes on....Marshall incidents where him playing up where they....Seem to remember the Media lauding Benji for being so tollerant of boofheads who want to take him on....

Geez if that's all we have to worry about compared to the other clubs and their off field culture then your right........... :laughing:

 

[senexx]

Of course it matters. Sheens record is clearly a factor. Four years not making the finals will be disappointing and is certainly a reason to look at other viable options. What are those viable options?

There are no viable options. Perhaps some 3rd grade coach or a returning coach from England but you know what happens when you get a new coach, he sacks half the team.

 

[senexx]

I also wish some of you people would learn to QUOTE correctly, there is a preview button.

Someone made a comment about the fact we can't blame the injuries and refs for not making the finals and fair enough but you have to admit that the refereeing over the last two seasons has been the worst refereeing seen in Aussie Rugby League