Sheens

[Joe_Cool]

I thought tigers were great and was just an awesome match up.

Two things determined the final outcome.

Some Jared Hayne magic and a very rough forward pass call from farah to marshall toward the end of the game.

I was kind of glad parra scored at the end because to lose having scored four tries to three would have been a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

The Fonz is not to blame for last night.

The team where awesome.

The Fonz is to blame for not playing the right players in their right positions for rounds 1 - 16\. He left it to when we had to win 7 from 8 remaining games to do his changes.

For this reason he should be hung, dried and quartered for not having the common sense to play Gallant at fullback, Benji at 6, Moltzen at 7 and Morris at 14.

There is absolutely no excuse for not picking it like this. If he did, then we would have had a couple more wins on the board and we would not have been in this shocking predicament.

Agree 100% with that.

 

[system]

Picking Moltzen at halfback whilst still carrying that elbow injury would have been a disaster IMO.

All I know is this team has been something to be very proud of this season. Despite a terrible injury toll, dodgy calls and some heartbreaking losses they still give us something to be proud of

 

[dimitri]

Hey Bug,

Do you realize that the Team with the least injuries and least players used in a season wins the premiership. Don't believe me? See R.League.com and have a look at the stats for yourself.

You will see that the Team with the least players used in a given year finishes 1st and the position of the other teams in the same year that finish 2nd, 3rd etc respectively based on who has the 2nd, 3rd least players used.

So, in using this statstical dribble, is Sheens to blame for the injuries to key players during the year? Look at the Sharks who were at the start of the year destined for a Top 4 finish based on there efforts of 2008 and the recruitment policy but have been cruelled by injuries in 2009.

Go back over the years since 2005 and look at the injuries the Tigers copped and when. The trend is the same. Unlucky.

I am sure you are behind the scenes and watchin the boys at all training sessions and you have a thorough understaning of the players abilities and the like.

When Gallant first was chosen to play in 2009, he didn't do too well did he? He needed to buy his time in the lower grades and prove his worth, which he did. A good coach promotes a player when they are good and ready.

Frustration abounds on this forum but no need to blame one of the best coaches in the League.

Put your hand up Mr Bug and give coaching a go. Im sure with your thorough analysis and understaning of the rugby league you will make the Tigers a success.

Take a panadol and have a good lie down.

 

[Gobbs]

Many fans will agree to disagree and that's the whole point of having a forum. Everyone has an opinion, a view, a voice and airs their praise, criticism, frustration, delusional thoughts etc. Injuries or not, team selection has let down Wests Tigers for the past 3 seasons. And for that alone, Coach Sheens must take the rap for that.

You can't question his persistence and loyalty in wanting to establish cohesion and combinations between individuals in the team, however, the risk, gamble that comes with this line of thinking is the potential loss of competition points that may come back to haunt the club at the business end of the season. Not playing specialist players in their position of trade for the third year straight until a change of mindset has been the heaviest contributor and factor in why Wests Tigers are currently in the position they find themselves in now.

 

[Joe_Cool]

I don't think Sheens has done anything in particular wrong but ultimately any individual is judged by their record and missing finals four years in a row in a competition where half the teams make the finals series is a sackable offence.

Our players, particularly the better guys like Benji, Farah, Gibbs, Heinhgton, Lawrence, Ellis, Galloway must be absolutely filthy about not getting to play in the finals series given a typical player is at the peak of their career for say 8 - 10 years and these guys are at their peak age now so have missed the finals for possibly half of their best years.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Picking Moltzen at halfback whilst still carrying that elbow injury would have been a disaster IMO.

Picking Morris in the halves for as long as he did was more of a disaster.

 

[system]

That I do not dispute but it has happened. It is over and I am looking forward hoping for the best

 

[tiger05]

All I know is this team has been something to be very proud of this season. Despite a terrible injury toll, dodgy calls and some heartbreaking losses they still give us something to be proud of

I agree - its been something to see.

 

[tiger_tigers]

The Fonz is not to blame for last night.

The team where awesome.

The Fonz is to blame for not playing the right players in their right positions for rounds 1 - 16\. He left it to when we had to win 7 from 8 remaining games to do his changes.

For this reason he should be hung, dried and quartered for not having the common sense to play Gallant at fullback, Benji at 6, Moltzen at 7 and Morris at 14.

There is absolutely no excuse for not picking it like this. If he did, then we would have had a couple more wins on the board and we would not have been in this shocking predicament.

Sheens must be sacked in 3 weeks and the new coach who I hope would be Peter Gentle be told who are the number 1 players are in what positions they are to play.

SACK SHEENS. HE MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND SHOWN THE DOOR. NO EXCUSES, HE IS IN THE SAME BOAST AS HALATAU AND COLLIS. HE TOO HAS NON-PERFORMED.

yeah well said …..he has had his time in the sun ......

 

[tiger_tigers]

[

Galea hasnt played in the backs for a long time….I doubt its as easy for him as you suggest, when you move to the forawrds full time you get bigger and slower, and while he's good defensively, I'd say he'd get found out in D in the backs, we dont even need to go into the attack side of things, do we?
you actually get thrown into the forwards because you have slowed down ….galeas past it for the backline .....

 

[supercoach]

I think our form over the past month or so has clouded a lot of peoples minds. I see 2009 as another year of hard luck stories,injuries and missed chances. In the past we have gone along okay only to fall at the last jump this year we decided to run at the back of the field and fly home to be beaten in a photo for a minor placing. Now Iam not advocating for Sheens to be sacked, its to late for that now and with one year left on the contract, whats the point. Although I do hold him responsible for a lot of things that may or may not have made a big difference over the past few years, all these things have been mention time and time again over the past few years. Dont think that this form patch will just jump over to 2010, it seldom works that way. Lets hope Sheens has learnt some big lessons this year, and maybe he might react a little quicker in future when option A isnt working.
Anyway lets hope for a miracle and pull two from two–-

 

[southerntiger]

Supercoach,

Your post misses the point. This was a thread that used the loss on Friday to advocate for the sacking of Sheens. As myself and others have noted some posters on here will rely on any negative happening to advocate the sacking of Sheens. In light of the spirited performance that boys gave this was a case of extremely bad timing and in poor taste.

I am in no way opposed to exploring a new coach in the future (even as early as next year). However, when one looks out the possible options (Gould aside and he doesnt seem truly interested) I still think Sheens is the best there is. There are very few coaches out there (even the unavailable ones) that I would be confident in saying are better than Sheens, possibly Bennett, Bellamy and Daniel Anderson (although every one knows that he can either bring great success or abject failure). Please dont say Brian Smith - one of the most overrated coaches in the history of the game. if someone can suggest a likely better alternative than I would be happy to consider it. The reality is that Sheens commands the respect of players - both at the club and elsewhere (Galloway cited Sheens as the reason he joined the Tigers). There is not many coaches that can say this.

Ultimately, when you look at our roster now as opposed to when Sheens was appointed it is hard not to be impressed. Certainly we have lost players like O'Donnell and Laffranchi but our talent is far superior to what it was when Lamb left. Some may wrongly assert that this was just a matter of good juniors coming through. Such an assertion would clearly be wrong when you consider both the fact that many of our current stars were not juniors and the manner in which Sheens nurtured their early first grade careers. Sheens should get credit for that (but of course he wont). Sheens can proudly say that he will leave the club in a much better position than when he came. On this point alone he deserves respect.

I have on many times disagreed with Sheens team selections. I too thought Gallant played well last year and should have been given a go at the beginning of the year. I was a vehement critic of Fitzhenry (terrible footballer). I thought John Morris was a mistake. That being said, I am still not confident (as good as a footy player as he is) that Moltzen is a long term half back solution. I, like Sheens, am interested to see where is best positions ends up being. I still like the idea of him at fullback chiming into the attacking line when needed. There are a lot on this forum who like to credit the 6 game winning streak to moving Moltzen to half back. I am not sure that these are related. I think the winning streak relates to two things - the removal of Morris from the halves and an upswing in the form of one B Marshall. The reality is that the Tigers played as well as they have all year on Friday, except for last tackle options (Farah had a shocking game) and this was with Moltzen playing fullback.

 

[Snake]

Does not matter what has happened in the last 4 seasons ..if we don't make the semi's this year 4 and 0 finals in that period that's pretty much end game for the coach in my opinion .End of story. A new direction is needed Sheens is very Professional but 4 and 0 ? Not many coaches would survive on that record.

 

[southerntiger]

Of course it matters. Sheens record is clearly a factor. Four years not making the finals will be disappointing and is certainly a reason to look at other viable options. What are those viable options?

 

[alexaki]

If Sheens goes who replaces him??? :question: :question: ..we have seen the supposed young gun coaches come in a blaze of expectations only to fail…look at Fittler, Taylor and Cleary...I say keep Sheens as long as he wants to stay...he is an astute Coach no question. :sign:

 

[Defiant]

Its simple in my mind.

Playing JM as half for three years is unforgivable.

He was only dropped from the possy after he signed with the Sharks…. Does that mean Sheens would have persisted with him until the very end?

 

[Eddie]

I don't blame Sheens for picking Lui. I will never bag him for taking a chance on youth.

However this is a results business and you should live and die by them. 4 seasons without finals is unacceptable, no other way at looking at it. Tim Sheens played John Morris is the halves for nearly 3 years, which is criminal. We have become a much more talanted, stable and competative side during Sheens tenure however finishing 9th, 10th or 11th all the time means something isint quite right. Blaming injuries and refs just doesn't cut it.

We have a pretty talanted side and I for one would like to see someone with new ideas take it on.

 

[southerntiger]

Eddie,

I dont necessarily disgaree with you, but in the context of producing a premiership in 2005 I am prepared to give Sheens a bit of latitude.

You rightly note that we have a talented side. The questions for you are:

1\. Do you think, in light of where we were when Sheens came on board, that without Sheens we would have such a talented roster? In my view, it is highly unlikely that our squad would be as good as it is without Sheens. He has developed the right players and let the right players go. The one position we have been lacking is a half back and he has been trying to find a solution to this for the last three years (in a very lean market for halves).

2\. Do you think that if Sheens was sacked tomorrow we would be able to hold onto all our talent? In my view Sheens departure could see a lot of players looking to move on as they have all indicated admiration and respect for him. Marshall has repeatedly referred to Sheens as the major reason for his loyality to the club.

3\. Who is your alternative to replace Sheens? I am at a loss here.

 

[Balmain_Bug]

In my opinion, criticism of development and performance is guided on how the individual person applying this criticism has themselves been judged or gauged performance wise in their respective jobs.

I can say for myself, I work in an environment when monthly statistics are heavily examined and scrutinised. If improvements are not made in performance on a monthly basis then serious issues arise and I am held to account immediately.

The longer I have a portfolio, the more is expected from my planning, vision etc. There are no excuses for me if a long term project does not come off. **There are none.**

Sheens has failed. 3 years ago if you were to argue that he was rebuilding, my argument would be what has he achieved with this performance wise?

The answer is nothing.

His planning and vision has failed him. Sure there are the success stories with some young talented players but the blatant misuse of players and failures of those players in specific positions are his fault and his fault alone.

I am not a coach. Sheens is. He knows that performance must be shown with wins.

What I do know about performance is that I have never seen a boss or stakeholders happy with below standard performance of any company. 50% winning ratio or less is not good.

We as the supporters are the stakeholders.

Are you happy??