@strongee said in [Signing Suggestions & Rumours](/post/1481166) said:
I’ve said this before , but we are one of the only elite competitions in the world , without a draft to go with the salary cap . Either don’t have a salary cap , and have all salaries public knowledge , or have a draft to help with the cap .
The NSWRL introduced a draft in 1991. Some players and coaches challenged it in the courts and the High Court upheld the challenge and the draft was thrown out. It lasted a year.
Fast forward to today. Imagine, say, Easts and other glamour clubs being denied the opportunity to pick the eyes out of the best juniors. How long before Polites challenged it in the courts ?
The only reason a draft works in the AFL is because everybody is prepared to accept it. It wouldn't survive if it were challenged in the courts.
That is not necessarily true, restraints of trade can win court challenges if they can be proven to be fair and reasonable. Examples of arguments for fair and reasonable restraints of trade include that they are important for the viability of the organisation and thus actually protect wages. It is why the salary cap would likely survive a legal challenge. If a sporting organisation could argue that the competition is more viable because of a draft than it could possibly survive a legal challenge.
I guess it’s theoretically possible to design a draft that will survive a court challenge in Australia. Or perhaps it would be better to get everyone’s agreement beforehand not to challenge it in the courts (similar to the AFL).
From time to time the NRL has re-considered a draft, but has not pressed on. I suspect because it sees the challenges which would be difficult, if not impossible, to overcome.
As you say, the viability of the NRL is an important consideration, which the court is obliged to consider. This was raised in the original case. However, the appeal Court found that while the NSWRL was seeking to assist the evenness of the competition, the Court did not accept that the draft was necessary to ensure the financial stability of the clubs.
You also mention that a draft could be approved if demonstrated to be fair and reasonable. But this was the sticking point on appeal. Part of this was the way the draft had been designed, but the fundamental objection for the court was that the draft is contrary to the common law principle that parties should be free to trade as they wish.
Justice Wilcox held that if you are compelling a person to enter into the service of someone they have not chosen, then the justification must be extra-ordinarily compelling for it to be said to be reasonable.
Moreover, Wilcox regarded the proposed internal draft as both anticompetitive and an illegal collective boycott. He said that: “It is difficult to see what policy purpose is achieved by leaving inviolate arrangements under which potential employers agree not to compete amongst themselves ...It is certainly not in the interests of employees.”
I only raised the NSWRL’s attempt to introduce a draft because a number of people keep saying that the NRL should introduce a draft. It is clearly easier said than done.
Good debate and points raised. I think this year the huge gap between the top say 6 teams and the rest has been widely discussed in commentary teams. The fact that the Titans made the finals winning - was it 10 games out of 24, highlights the gulf. If this shows up again next year it is quite possible that a draft or 'other way' of making the game fairer may come into play. I remember another poster mentioning something like a 'points allocation' for each team with players being given ratings. Who knows, but at the moment the salary cap is a farce.
I have been saying this for ages
Sydney Rugby Union uses this approach and if it was adhered to it would work well. Currently the system is being rorted by the top teams
Players are allowed points for being a 1st grade player, a super rugby player, Australian player or Second tier nations player. But if you are junior or played more than 1 season at the club you can get discounts e.g.; for the Tigers
Chris Lawrence played for Australia allocated 10 points but discounts for being a junior and years of service he would cost the club 1 point. Now Cooper Cronk when he went to Easts, played for Australia 10 points, not a junior or never played for the club before he costs the club 10 points. Each club is allocated 100 points for first grade for that day. Simple solution and if managed effectively is a great way to spread talent
This idea comes up every so often and there's a reason why it's never been seriously explored in the NRL: because it would never get past the players union - and quite rightly so, because it's dreadful. Imagine if teams were forced to put a star player weighting on, say, Aaron Woods (multiple caps for Australia and NSW). He'd never get a contract at all, even at bargain basement level, his agent and the union would be livid and would probably sue for restraint of trade.
Oh yeah, and the system would also kill off international rugby league for good. Imagine if some young kid gets offered a place in the Samoa squad for a world cup and, say, Craig Bellamy doesn't want him to take the extra X points for being an international rep. He just says "up to you if you want to play international football, but we don't have cap room to re-sign another international for next year". All of a sudden players are dropping like flies with mystery injuries before international games.
Plus, you're now effectively placing cap management in the hands of rep selectors. Remember when Nathan Merritt got called up for the Blues and played the worst game in origin history? Well, under the rep points system he's now worth less to any club as well because he's officially a rep player and they can't have too many of them.
The problem with all these "how to fix the salary cap" ideas is that they sound great in the pub but when you actually consider the ramifications and how they would play out in roster management they tend to fall apart. Mind you, you could say the same about most of the recent rule changes and that hasn't stopped the halfwits running the show from pushing them through, so we'll probably get some nonsense like this if it appeals to V'Landys.
I understand, but I did only give a very simplistic view of how it works e.g.: A Soman player would be classed as a second tier RL nation would only be charged at half the rate of a NZ or Aust player. There is a lot of ways this can work but its not unworkable
I suspected that would be the response, but it doesn't work either. All of a sudden you are articificially inflating the value of "second tier" nation players over that of Australian and NZ players. What are you doing about Tonga? What if they win a world cup?
This is my whole point: any system that puts an arbitrary, external value on players is going to distort roster construction and probably won't solve the problems you want it to.
I'm not saying it is a perfect solution to the problem, I'm just saying its possible. This is the solution that is used for Sydney RU and second tier AFL in Victoria.
I personally doubt that there is a 100% perfect solution. I'm sure some players would refuse to play SOO or for Australia for the fear that it may affect their employability at a later stage of their career, this is the area that needs to be addressed in this solution.
But what we have now is definitely not working, something has to change to have an somewhat equal competition. Also, most large companies and unions put arbitrary value on employees via Enterprise Agreements. The only difference is this does not change their $ paid value only their points to the club.
It really is a difficult problem to solve - interesting chat ..... thx
