Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[batboy]

You can’t blame him for the Cleary thing. Every coach gets full autonomy on the salary cap. What coach is going to have his hand held by the CEO. They were close friends, why would he ever believe that Cleary would dog him the way he did? And I don‘t remember any complaints at the time. Cleary while here was up there as one of the most beloved figures of anyone that has ever been at the club.

I don't "Blame" him for it, And certainly understand how it happened....
Mate ship aside - It probably shouldn't have happened.
I still see it as the thing that's happened under his time that's been the biggest issue for the club.

Even if Cleary was still here - And we didn't sign those players or got others....
Who would ever know if we'd be in a better position today?

 

[jirskyr]

We seem to agree yet I often read your essay’s ^ suggesting otherwise.

I think that's because some people misinterpret an enthusiastic argument "against the negative" as necessarily being a position "for the positive".

I almost always argue towards the moderate, towards the middle. I believe excessive enthusiasm or optimism in rugby league is unwarranted, but equally so is excessive pessimism and negativity.

To put it in political terms - you don't have to be a Marxist to argue against conservatism. You can be somewhere in the middle.

 

[jirskyr]

Other patterns not considered are the Raiders and Sea Eagles continually swapping positions year in and year out.

I considered it but they don't make a compelling argument in one way or another, and also I had already written a lot of text.

Their records are not sufficiently good or bad to fall into either camp. You are right that they always hover in and around the finals, but for most Tigers fans that would be easily good enough.

 

[Buttface]

I think that's because some people misinterpret an enthusiastic argument "against the negative" as necessarily being a position "for the positive".

I almost always argue towards the moderate, towards the middle. I believe excessive enthusiasm or optimism in rugby league is unwarranted, but equally so is excessive pessimism and negativity.

To put it in political terms - you don't have to be a Marxist to argue against conservatism. You can be somewhere in the middle.

Stop your making to much sense.

 

[BAGNF05]

You can’t blame him for the Cleary thing. Every coach gets full autonomy on the salary cap. What coach is going to have his hand held by the CEO. They were close friends, why would he ever believe that Cleary would dog him the way he did? And I don‘t remember any complaints at the time. Cleary while here was up there as one of the most beloved figures of anyone that has ever been at the club.

Coaches don’t get full autonomy of the salary cap, it varies between clubs, Mary M had little to no say. There is generally someone who manages the cap values and the coach has a strong voice in who to target within the cap constraints/guidelines. The CEO ultimately signs off and in Pascoe’s case, adds a little fluffy one sentence on the press release. Then we watch the plodder plod.

Pascoe’s faith in Cleary cannot be forgotten.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Coaches don’t get full autonomy of the salary cap, it varies between clubs, Mary M had little to no say. There is generally someone who manages the cap values and the coach has a strong voice in who to target within the cap constraints/guidelines. The CEO ultimately signs off and in Pascoe’s case, adds a little fluffy one sentence on the press release. Then we watch the plodder plod.

Pascoe’s faith in Cleary cannot be forgotten.

Everyone had faith in Cleary. Everyone was on the bus. He literally could do no wrong in Tigers supporters eyes.

 

[jirskyr]

What is Justin doing in his conversations with NRL powerbrokers to address this? That’s what I’d like to hear about from him.

Because for once I agree with everything you say. Doesnt mean it’s not a problem if we’re not the only basket case.

I have no idea what he is doing.

If I had to guess, I would say that the NRL is not invested in helping disadvantaged clubs get their turn of the fair share, so pleas would be mostly on deaf ears. This is not to say I am accusing them of cronyism or favouritism, just that the NRL are not going to attempt to manipulate their market too aggressively, preferring to let clubs compete as businesses.

I sometimes wonder out loud if the NRL would not be OK with some Sydney-based clubs dying on the vine, in order to dilute the local market. However I believe current thinking is that the NRL cannot afford to potentially lose the fans that might disappear with a dead Sydney club (like with the Bears), and also the NRL uses their landslide advantage in Sydney to help fight AFL incursion (i.e they are not confident that the AFL would not fill the void).

Also, if the NRL was to intentionally ignore the pleas of lower-based clubs, it does them no good in key markets like Auckland and Gold Coast, and to a lesser extent Newcastle and Townsville.

 

[jirskyr]

Here's a scoop (not), Sharks' supporters are clamorng for the the club to re-sign Teig Wilton if Morris comes to WTs.

He's his cousin or nephew right?

 

[pawsandclaws1]

He's his cousin or nephew right?

Latter I believe. A good player too.

 

[BAGNF05]

I have no idea what he is doing.

If I had to guess, I would say that the NRL is not invested in helping disadvantaged clubs get their turn of the fair share, so pleas would be mostly on deaf ears. This is not to say I am accusing them of cronyism or favouritism, just that the NRL are not going to attempt to manipulate their market too aggressively, preferring to let clubs compete as businesses.

I sometimes wonder out loud if the NRL would not be OK with some Sydney-based clubs dying on the vine, in order to dilute the local market. However I believe current thinking is that the NRL cannot afford to potentially lose the fans that might disappear with a dead Sydney club (like with the Bears), and also the NRL uses their landslide advantage in Sydney to help fight AFL incursion (i.e they are not confident that the AFL would not fill the void).

Also, if the NRL was to intentionally ignore the pleas of lower-based clubs, it does them no good in key markets like Auckland and Gold Coast, and to a lesser extent Newcastle and Townsville.

It’s a discussion I find interesting. I follow the NFL more passionately now as they have a much better system in terms of talent equality.

 

[bigsiro]

You are right that they always hover in and around the finals, but for most Tigers fans that would be easily good enough.

I don’t think that’s right. Definitely not for this Tigers fan.

 

[jadtiger]

Everyone had faith in Cleary. Everyone was on the bus. He literally could do no wrong in Tigers supporters eyes.

Cleary certainly fooled me as i honestly believed him

 

[Needaname]

Cleary certainly fooled me as i honestly believed him

As the saying goes, we believe what we want to believe

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Conscious bias

 

[bathursttiger1]

Laugh all you like mate... I bothers me not.
Every man and his dog says success starts in the front office - And the front office is as successful as it's ever been - Probably more so.

I don't have an opinion on Pascoe - I see the stuff ups, But I see the good things...
- And I certainly don't need to be reminded of the clowns that held the position before him, And the rubbish he walked into created by them.

Most (If not all) issues anyone could lay at his feet - Were created from the environment he walked into. Him backing Cleary to shag the cap is the worst of what he's done in his time here
- Cleary was seen as a god send at the time, And what Coach of any quality doesn't take full autonomy of the Roster? Systems are now in place (That didn't exist before) I might add to stop that happening again.

There's counter position for almost any legitimate issue anyone has with him....
But those with issues also don't acknowledge any positives from the club under his tenure

Pascoe needs to be removed from all aspects related to the Football department, and just continue looking after the Financial part of the Club.

 

[Nelson]

Assuming we miss out on Nikora and Crichton (as seems likely), we might be better off trying to bring a veteran back from ESL rather than get whatever is left of the NRL offerings. Ma'u, Sione Mata'utia and Sironen are all running around over there and shouldn't be completely washed given their ages...Ma'u might harden the pack up some.

 

[SeanT]

Pascoe needs to be removed from all aspects related to the Football department, and just continue looking after the Financial part of the Club.

The whole board needs to not be involved in the football department. Sheen's, the coach and reserve coach should be the only ones involved in the dropping of players and recruitment.

How we have leaks is beyond me.. how many people know about day to day activities? Amateurish at its best

 

[earl]

Has anyone ever worked at a company where the board and CEO aren't involved at all in the business ?

 

[jirskyr]

I don’t think that’s right. Definitely not for this Tigers fan.

If I offered you guaranteed 8th place in 2023 right now, you wouldn't take it?

No argument that after a few years of qualifying in the bottom of the Top 8, fans would rapidly get restless and adjust their expectations.

 

[tony soprano]

Assuming we miss out on Nikora and Crichton (as seems likely), we might be better off trying to bring a veteran back from ESL rather than get whatever is left of the NRL offerings. Ma'u, Sione Mata'utia and Sironen are all running around over there and shouldn't be completely washed given their ages...Ma'u might harden the pack up some.

Their all currently coached by woolf.