Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[jrtiger]

There doesn't no seem to be a lot of quality halves juniors coming through the systems over the last couple of years.

Half Back is probably the most important position on the field.

Are Junior coaches and systems not teaching juniors how to be quality half backs?

Hopefully WT have a decent half back coming through the junior ranks and is signed up long term.

Finally, with all the quality signings plus the duds that were let go I am excited about what 2023 and 2024 will bring. 2023 will be a rebuilding stage as players adapt to new players and a more attacking mind set. 2024 is where I see WT competing with the big boys.

we've got a couple of youngsters in our junior ranks that could potentially become our long term 7. Alex and Levi Conti, Luke Keppie and Alex Isdale are all good prospects. Isdale for mine, although the youngest, is probably the long term answer.

if we can sign Moses or Williams and have them as our half for 3 or 4 years it gives Isdale every opportunity to progress through the grades properly without being rushed. absolutely crucial to our long-term success that these kids aren't hurried through their development.

 

[oldschooltiger]

The performance of Jock and Jackson will once again highlight the stupidity of the Wests Tigers.

AD is dreaming for his rumoured asking price. I don't think any club will go for that, he's hardly proven himself. Easy to look decent around a bunch of numpties.

Praying for some good news RE Moses, but I would be very very very surprised. The only thing that could save the Brooks decision.

AD needs to step up this year. I would role the dice and not rush to resign him. I think if we can keep the right juniors and give the support they need we are about to see WT back in the top 8.🤞

 

[earl]

If Brooks was the most ‘complete’ halfback this past year then why was he moved from the position?

I agreed with that post. He was our most complete half. You are correct though in that he is a running 6 who can do some good stuff with the ball and he has a decent all round kicking game.

He just isn't a gun half and he is not even really an organizing 7.

I think at best he can be a role player in a gun team.

The problem is to many on here view him as being a gun player when he isn't. Neither is Hastings or Doueihi or Laurie.

 

[88]

So, I can see this being good for us but I think Hastings was not a good player to send and I think, given how toxic the relationship appeared between Klemmer and the Knights, we would have been able to get him without giving up anything, or at least anything as valuable as Hastings. To me this is another poor move by our club.

In terms of a club decision to ship him to Newcastle it isn’t as cut and dry as that. Hastings signed with Newcastle (higher pay and preferred position so good luck to him). Think Tiges have then used that situation that he isn’t there long term to facilitate a trade on strengthening an area of weakness (prop). So it’s not like he was moved on by the club, just had his release accelerated after he signed elsewhere.

 

[king_sirro]

The difference between the top teams and the bottom ones is usually a good half / halves / spine player.

When Mitch went to Parra they had one ordinary season and then have been top 4. (Yes they had Dylan too but still).

And I did say closer to 8.

I think that we have a better chance of winning 5 more games with Hastings at 7 then Brooks… we’re probably a two try better team per game or maybe 8-10 points with Hastings and considering we lost something like 10 games by less than that we are going to be worse off with Brooks.

This would take us up around 10th.

Brooks offers no try assists, can’t set up an attacking play unless it’s very robotic and unfortunately has been so beaten down over 9 yrs doesn’t have a winners mentality.

I’m happy to take bets with any one on this forum who think we place higher then Newcastle on the ladder if this trade occurs.

And this is all speculation but for the love of god people - how can anyone think Brooks is going to be better than Hastings after 9 years of watching him.

Brooks averages 11 try assist a year over the past 5 years. The most of any Tiger. In comparison to a highly rated 7 at another struggling club, Ben Hunt averages 12.2 over the past 5 years.

But don't let facts get in the way of your argument, as clearly Brooks offers zero try assists.

 

[earl]

Hastings has a limited kicking game and I think that is far more of an issue than his lack of pace in terms of playing halfback going forward.

He doesn't have a long kicking game. If he had a long kicking game and he was fit and taking the goal kicking duties on he could be a gun.

I wonder if he'll be better next season due to being healthier.

 

[Love_the_WestsTigers]

Woods on a cheap and short contract , could be value as a mentor. I watched most of his games last year, and although he was not the player he used to be, he was valuable',. With the big bodies today, you need big bodies in defence. It slows their play the ball, saps their energy, plus he can offload, which Tigers forwards can;t ,. Him and klemmer interchanging makes sense. I'm 50/50 to be honest, but i think his heart has always been with the club, (wait for the hate!)

Woodsys best attribute is offloads. Full stop.

 

[earl]

Brooks averages 11 try assist a year over the past 5 years. The most of any Tiger. In comparison to a highly rated 7 at another struggling club, Ben Hunt averages 12.2 over the past 5 years.

But don't let facts get in the way of your argument, as clearly Brooks offers zero try assists.

Facts. Go and watch him play last season and tell me he doesn't have the best all round kicking game out of him AD and Hastings.

I think Brooks defense is a little overrated though. He still misses some tackles. You expect that from your halves but Cleary doesn't miss many.

 

[weststigers]

I think he is an edge backrower if he gets his defense right but I suppose that is the same for whatever position you play him in.

He is becoming a massive disappointment. He has shown more ability to make a bust than any player we have but he has so many flaws in his game.

Maybe Sheens can get him playing well but his ideas about playing in the halves and earning top dollar makes me think we'd be better off just letting him go.

AD needs to remember that he came from Souths as a fringe first-grader.

Since then, he’s done some good things for us, but he’s by no means a complete player. $900k is laughable for what he’s achieved in the game (which is nothing). I’m not saying he doesn’t bring anything to the team, just that the salary doesn’t line up with the output.

You are right in that his biggest assets are breaking tackles and his running game.

He often takes hit ups and makes good metres and teams struggle with him. He’s obviously very strong.

If you want a ball playing 13, he’s your man. Could be alright on an edge, but defensively you are one on one a lot. I’m not sure he’s up to it.

The writing is on the wall with AD. Sheens already looking at halves, so clearly doesn’t see AD as the long-term solution at this stage.

 

[liltiger]

I had a good mate who did this to my wife when she was pregnant. No longer are we good mates.

Wtf goes through people's heads sometimes is mind boggling.

 

[Halbrowne61]

And I've bagged Woods ...but I tell you what ...you get Woods playing the way when he was 20 and not turning his back to the defence and worrying how many Fantasy points he was averaging every week ......

I still maintain at the age of 20 he was potentially the best young prop I'd seen since Lazarus ....

Sorry HT, But he’s not 20 anymore so that is probably an invalid argument.
Look at a young guy called Brooks who had destroyed everything in front of him as a junior, came into grade, the new Joey, but it’s all gone down hill from there.
Woulda , shoulda, couldas just don’t count anymore.

 

[The Chad]

Really?
If Brooks was the most ‘complete’ halfback this past year then why was he moved from the position?
Also don’t recall Hastings getting run over too often by the opposition when playing at 13 … more like some of his arm grabbing, lazy teammates.
And seriously… you are happy for Dora (who offers zilch) to come back at the expense of a top 30 spot for Hastings?

Of the halves used last season- yes, Brooks is the most 'complete'. Hastings has no tactical kicking game & his lack of speed has been well documented & argued out. Doueihi is bigger, stronger, but only has the bomb in his kit bag & his passing game is not as rounded as Brooks. Madden was inferior in all aspects of his game to Brooks. I'm not saying Brooks is the best halfback in the NRL. Just, given the options, he has the most complete game in his bag.

Woods isn't coming back to replace Hastings though, is he? He's replacing Tamou, or Musgrove. Will Smith, or any other halves option we bring in, is more a 'replacement' for Hastings.

I liked Hastings. But he isn't going to be the reason the Tigers fortunes turned around. Just like he won't be the reason Newcastle will turn around. He's an incomplete player that tries really hard & is likeable as a result.

 

[balmain boy]

In all @THE_POM updates, this is a mixed bag.

Great about Fa'agutu & hopefully the club is doing what it can to help Dudley Dotoi settle in Sydney (if he has returned for pre-season training yet). Probably the best of our SG Ball backs from last season, well the fastest with the most x-factor anyway.

Yes, we really do need to get Dotoi over the line. He's everything we lack in backs, Tall, fast, elusive and powerful. He could be playing first grade within 12 months. We really need to offer him a 3 year deal that he commits to and moves to sydney or if he's only ever going to half heart his presence in sydney and could ask for a release to go home then better to cut losses and move on.
If Matamua gets promoted to top 30 then hopefully Chris get his development contract this year. No point in holding him back when he did well in QLD cup this year.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

The difference between the top teams and the bottom ones is usually a good half / halves / spine player.

When Mitch went to Parra they had one ordinary season and then have been top 4. (Yes they had Dylan too but still).

And I did say closer to 8.

I think that we have a better chance of winning 5 more games with Hastings at 7 then Brooks… we’re probably a two try better team per game or maybe 8-10 points with Hastings and considering we lost something like 10 games by less than that we are going to be worse off with Brooks.

This would take us up around 10th.

Brooks offers no try assists, can’t set up an attacking play unless it’s very robotic and unfortunately has been so beaten down over 9 yrs doesn’t have a winners mentality.

I’m happy to take bets with any one on this forum who think we place higher then Newcastle on the ladder if this trade occurs.

And this is all speculation but for the love of god people - how can anyone think Brooks is going to be better than Hastings after 9 years of watching him.

Interesting your argument is about attacking players between Brooks & Hastings?

Hastings in 63 nrl games has scored 3 times, has 22 try assists & 17 drop outs to his name.
Last year he had 1200 + receipts for 7 try assists.

Brooks 189 nrl games, 42 trys, 108 try assists, 93 drop outs
Last year he had 856 receipts, 2 trys, 10 try assists

Brooks is by far the more attacking player of the 2

If we look at last 5yrs 2022 was our worst year across the park attack, defensive, wins etc.
Last year we scored 150pts in the season and had double the wins.

Y - W / F v A D
22 - 4 / 352 v 679 -327
21 - 8 / 500/714 -214
20 - 7 / 440/505 -56
19 - 11 / 467 / 461 +6
18 - 12 / 367/409 -42

Brooks is a better attacking player than Hastings, Hastings is a better chief than Brooks.
They both have pro's con's. If you want to grind a win Hastings will be the pick, if we want to score points & who cares about defence Brooks is the pick

 

[balmain boy]

I want Pole to be an "off the back fence" style of runner.

That's Herman Tofaeano, who will probably play flegg this year.

 

[sleeve]

FACT;- Hastings is gone !--get over it. FACT;- Brooks is playing in the halves in 2023. --love it or leave it- suck rocks. FACT;- AD will not get $900,000 or an extended contract. FACT; - there are few if any halves on the market better then Brooks at this time. Fact ;- Sheens will not keep anyone that does not benefit the club, including Brooks, Fact;- this is a good time for the Tigers, sensible signings, money in the cap, juniors coming through, and big money from off contract players in 2024. Enjoy while you can.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

FACT;- Hastings is gone !--get over it. FACT;- Brooks is playing in the halves in 2023. --love it or leave it- suck rocks. FACT;- AD will not get $900,000 or an extended contract. FACT; - there are few if any halves on the market better then Brooks at this time. Fact ;- Sheens will not keep anyone that does not benefit the club, including Brooks, Fact;- this is a good time for the Tigers, sensible signings, money in the cap, juniors coming through, and big money from off contract players in 2024. Enjoy while you can.

Good post and the highlighted area resonates.

 

[Savvy]

I've always had a high opinion of Williams 851. He played well at the Raiders for the most and I was surprised he returned to the UK.

I really believe he is the type of half back we need. ( poor man’s Reynolds)

 

[sleeve]

Facts. Go and watch him play last season and tell me he doesn't have the best all round kicking game out of him AD and Hastings.

I think Brooks defense is a little overrated though. He still misses some tackles. You expect that from your halves but Cleary doesn't miss many.

Every team in the comp targets the 7, 6 and 1. Brooks would have had to do twice the work of the top halves. AD was an arm grabber, our FB was poor, our forwards terrible'
. Storm-Cheese , Munster ,Paps, Panthers- Cleary, Lui, Edwards. Easts - walker, Cleary Teddy.

Can you imagine how much easier it would be, to have those players taking the pressure off you !

 

[tigermate]

Interesting your argument is about attacking players between Brooks & Hastings?

Hastings in 63 nrl games has scored 3 times, has 22 try assists & 17 drop outs to his name.
Last year he had 1200 + receipts for 7 try assists.

Brooks 189 nrl games, 42 trys, 108 try assists, 93 drop outs
Last year he had 856 receipts, 2 trys, 10 try assists

Brooks is by far the more attacking player of the 2

If we look at last 5yrs 2022 was our worst year across the park attack, defensive, wins etc.
Last year we scored 150pts in the season and had double the wins.

Y - W / F v A D
22 - 4 / 352 v 679 -327
21 - 8 / 500/714 -214
20 - 7 / 440/505 -56
19 - 11 / 467 / 461 +6
18 - 12 / 367/409 -42

Brooks is a better attacking player than Hastings, Hastings is a better chief than Brooks.
They both have pro's con's. If you want to grind a win Hastings will be the pick, if we want to score points & who cares about defence Brooks is the pick

Attacking can mean a lot of things.

It means we score more points. To clarify I don’t really look at last year because Hastings didn’t play halfback all that much - it’s just my personal opinion - as is this whole argument and I respect if you have a different one.

I think with Hastings we score more points as a team.

And I think with Hastings we win more games. ( easiest way to think about this is who do you think would win in a game - Api/Hastings or Api/Brooks.

People who continue to pull up stats about Brooks ability whether it be a bit attack or defense moss the point - it’s about winning games as a team and as the half back he takes a resonable piece of accountability for that.

That’s my point - apologize if the words I chose in the previous post didn’t articulate that properly.