Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[jirskyr]

He may be arrogant, but knows what he is talking about.
Would you seriously take the opinion of supporters on a forum over his opinion when it comes to halfback play and who is ready or not ready ?

Sometimes yes, because I interact with the forum every day and I've never met Cooper Cronk.

But often I dismiss both.

I'll tell you why specifically for Cronk: not only is he a blow-hard, but he never played in a bad side. He had an immense career, I'm not going to deny that he was a good footballer, but Cronk only ever played in sides immensely stacked (sometimes illegally stacked) with talent.

Not just good sides, I mean disproportionally stacked sides. Roosters won the 2018 GF in spite of Cronk's broken shoulder, not because of it.

So when Cronk starts to talk about what the Tigers or Knights need to do, I don't actually believe Cronk has sufficient experience to comment. Cronk knows what to do when your team-mates are Slater and Smith, or Tedesco and Latrell and Joey Manu, or QLD Origin.

What does Cronk really know about playing with a sub-par roster? What happens when "taking control" and "kicking to the corners" doesn't cut it because your roster is sub-standard and you can't rely on your blokes to make their tackles every match.

 

[Tom Shines]

It always amazes me to hear people talking about a draft as if that's something that would be positive for the Tigers - I assume it's just because we've been crap for so long that people start to assume any other system would have to be better. Literally the one advantage this club should have going for it is a massive junior catchment area, which a draft would immediately render irrelevant. All a draft would mean is that we'd be competing with the bigger, richer clubs without any edge.

The reason why the AFL draft sort of works isn't the draft itself but the incredibly restrictive contracts players coming into the league are put under. You can't be an unrestricted free agent in the AFL until you have been at a club for eight years and even then if you're in the top earners on a list your current club has the right to match any offer. People might want the NRL to introduce similar rules but it's never going to happen - for one thing, severely restricting the earnings capabilities of young league players would just reopen the talent drain to union, in Australia or offshore. The AFL doesn't have this concern.

And despite all that, the AFL still has lousy clubs down at the bottom year after year and big names more or less perpetually at the top. Yes, when players force a trade to a preferred club their current club gets draft picks. But they just get used on more young talent that then leaves.

Basically, what would happen in a draft would be a turbocharged version of what happens now. Bad teams like the Tigers would get the best talent at 18 years old (assuming we don't make a balls up of our picks, which, hmm), would give it first grade experience up until more or less exactly the point at which it starts to really flourish... and then lose it to bigger teams. The difference would be that instead of having the chance to supplement your Galvins and Makasinis - top five draft picks - with a heap of 30-50 pick equivalents, all the lower picks go to the teams that are also doing the poaching.

Basically, building a system like Penrith or Canberra would become impossible because the talent all gets artificially shared round at 18. At this point there's no purpose for a club to invest in pathways and juniors. The NRL itself has no interest in long-term planning so grassroots rugby league would get starved of funding.

Basically, a draft would be terrible for the game and terrible for clubs like the Tigers. It's a dreadful idea and one that ought to be sealed in concrete and dropped in the ocean.

One other thing you haven’t mentioned …. A draft is a pipe dream in the NRL because if a young player isn’t happy with where he gets picked , he has the option of going and playing Rugby Union either here of overseas … what’s an AFL player going to do ? They have no other options..

Edit - sorry you did mention this point and I missed it 👍😎

 

[jirskyr]

One other thing you haven’t mentioned …. A draft is a pipe dream in the NRL because if a young player isn’t happy with where he gets picked , he has the option of going and playing Rugby Union either here of overseas … what’s an AFL player going to do ? They have no other options..

Ah actually he did specifically mention that.

 

[Tom Shines]

Ah actually he did specifically mention that.

Yes he did,,. I gotta work on my attention span on these longer posts 👍

 

[tigahhh]

i think latu needs to play 6 and luai 7, will help unlock latu’s running game. 7 might be too much pressure atm

 

[balmain boy]

He is not a lock, he’s a 6 or 7 who would be a very good 14 if we have a 6 and 7 who are both playing better than him.
Currently that is not the case.

Thing is, he is a lock moving forwards. He had to be able to make the dirty hitups, make covering tackles etc. He hasn't shown he can do that. Or he's a backup half.
He's not a 14, we need a 14 who can give Api a spell, and that's not AD.

He's also got to show he can maintain form and fitness after signing a contract, something he's never been able to do in his career to date.

 

[balmain boy]

i think latu needs to play 6 and luai 7, will help unlock latu’s running game. 7 might be too much pressure atm

Luai is not a 7. He's not the dominant half, no matter how much he says he could be. Nicho Hynes for his faults still went to the Sharks and became their main main without a shadow of a Doubt. Luai still wants others to do that for him.

 

[Vicious]

Luai is not a 7. He's not the dominant half, no matter how much he says he could be. Nicho Hynes for his faults still went to the Sharks and became their main main without a shadow of a Doubt. Luai still wants others to do that for him.

So we are likely heading into 2026 with two 6’s and Jock Madden as our only genuine 7.

 

[HowDugWT]

It always amazes me to hear people talking about a draft as if that's something that would be positive for the Tigers - I assume it's just because we've been crap for so long that people start to assume any other system would have to be better. Literally the one advantage this club should have going for it is a massive junior catchment area, which a draft would immediately render irrelevant. All a draft would mean is that we'd be competing with the bigger, richer clubs without any edge.

The reason why the AFL draft sort of works isn't the draft itself but the incredibly restrictive contracts players coming into the league are put under. You can't be an unrestricted free agent in the AFL until you have been at a club for eight years and even then if you're in the top earners on a list your current club has the right to match any offer. People might want the NRL to introduce similar rules but it's never going to happen - for one thing, severely restricting the earnings capabilities of young league players would just reopen the talent drain to union, in Australia or offshore. The AFL doesn't have this concern.

And despite all that, the AFL still has lousy clubs down at the bottom year after year and big names more or less perpetually at the top. Yes, when players force a trade to a preferred club their current club gets draft picks. But they just get used on more young talent that then leaves.

Basically, what would happen in a draft would be a turbocharged version of what happens now. Bad teams like the Tigers would get the best talent at 18 years old (assuming we don't make a balls up of our picks, which, hmm), would give it first grade experience up until more or less exactly the point at which it starts to really flourish... and then lose it to bigger teams. The difference would be that instead of having the chance to supplement your Galvins and Makasinis - top five draft picks - with a heap of 30-50 pick equivalents, all the lower picks go to the teams that are also doing the poaching.

Basically, building a system like Penrith or Canberra would become impossible because the talent all gets artificially shared round at 18. At this point there's no purpose for a club to invest in pathways and juniors. The NRL itself has no interest in long-term planning so grassroots rugby league would get starved of funding.

Basically, a draft would be terrible for the game and terrible for clubs like the Tigers. It's a dreadful idea and one that ought to be sealed in concrete and dropped in the ocean.

I think it would be good if you were able to lock down 3-6 of your juniors in the "class" then the rest can go to the draft.
I think it would be good for teams that go of players early, for example TDS we could've gotten a few draft picks for him as well as a bit of money that we received. Incentivising teams to let go of players and removing the "one way street" narrative that is created when players leave mid season.
Just gets murky when we debut kids at 18 to 21, when do you draw the boundaries on the draft class.
I have actually come around to the idea but only under the condition I stated at the start so we don't lose Makasinis and Galvins (did it anyway lol).
Drafts are fun and create a buzz around junior grades as well as beginning the season like it does in the NFL.
I believe the RLPA are staunchly against it which is a bit of a shame but they seem to get in the way of most good ideas.

 

[Vicious]

Cronk works as a halves consultant with the Roosters which ends this season. It's one of the reasons they've gone for DCE. He'll be a player and a halves mentor. You're making a deliberately false statement in order to assist your argument.

Yes, we all know Latu is raw. He hasn't had any consistency in the halves to develop his game, both at training or in games. He needs a pre-season as the general at training, and he needs development as a half back. This bloke will win more games for Wests Tigers as a halfback, with first-class half back play, than what Doueihi ever will.

I'm happy to keep Doueihi, but Richo has done the numbers and that's what he's worth. They've offered him an extra year. As long as Latu gets 90% of the first-team half back reps in the pre-season, and develops as the club's long-term halfback.

Cronk was seen at Wests Tigers training very recently, nothing false about it.

 

[Vicious]

i think latu needs to play 6 and luai 7, will help unlock latu’s running game. 7 might be too much pressure atm

If we lose Doueihi which is looking highly likely, that’s the only logical way we can try and make our halves work.
It’s very hard to be confident that will work as Luai has looked like a fish out of water when playing 7 for us this season and looked much more confident and at ease when moved back to 6.

 

[tigahhh]

Luai is not a 7. He's not the dominant half, no matter how much he says he could be. Nicho Hynes for his faults still went to the Sharks and became their main main without a shadow of a Doubt. Luai still wants others to do that for him.

hynes has struggled as well, there was a large chunk of games last year where Trindall was the 7 & wearing 6. it’s not as black & white as you think

 

[tigahhh]

If we lose Doueihi which is looking highly likely, that’s the only logical way we can try and make our halves work.
It’s very hard to be confident that will work as Luai has looked like a fish out of water when playing 7 for us this season and looked much more confident and at ease when moved back to 6.

i meant just until latu’s confidence and game time is built up. Would be intimidating playing in the halves with a guy that’s won 4 premierships

 

[Vicious]

i meant just until latu’s confidence and game time is built up. Would be intimidating playing in the halves with a guy that’s won 4 premierships

I agree with what you are saying.
If our only option is to pair Luai and Latu in the halves, Luai needs to wear the 7 and take control, not leave it to a young rookie in Latu.

 

[tigahhh]

I agree with what you are saying.
If our only option is to pair Luai and Latu in the halves, Luai needs to wear the 7 and take control, not leave it to a young rookie in Latu.

yeah hopefully a pre-season irons the issues out

 

[Nonotmeagain]

One other thing you haven’t mentioned …. A draft is a pipe dream in the NRL because if a young player isn’t happy with where he gets picked , he has the option of going and playing Rugby Union either here of overseas … what’s an AFL player going to do ? They have no other options..

Edit - sorry you did mention this point and I missed it 👍😎

Why do you think that someone just goes and plays rugby union ? What if they have no background in the game - overseas clubs are not going to touch them when there's a ready made supply of European, South African , New Zealand and Pasifika players who are already grounded in the game to chose from. You don't go from being a rugby league prop to a tight head union prop on $500K a year when you feel like it. The ARU doesn't have the funds or the desire to poach untried league players - they are protecting their own ( Jorgensen etc) or going after the players who are at the top and have a background in the game - the days of Tiquiri, Sailor and Rogers are gone.

 

[WesternSuburbsBoy]

Cooper Cronk is helping out at WT's training sessions? yerrr right have you heard the bloke commentate us? he was basically heartbroken that we'd won on Sunday lol

 

[weststigers]

Why do you think that someone just goes and plays rugby union ? What if they have no background in the game - overseas clubs are not going to touch them when there's a ready made supply of European, South African , New Zealand and Pasifika players who are already grounded in the game to chose from. You don't go from being a rugby league prop to a tight head union prop on $500K a year when you feel like it. The ARU doesn't have the funds or the desire to poach untried league players - they are protecting their own ( Jorgensen etc) or going after the players who are at the top and have a background in the game - the days of Tiquiri, Sailor and Rogers are gone.

It's more feasible that an 18 year old switches codes more easily because they still have some years to develop and the gap in knowledge wouldn't be as big. The serious coaching only starts around 16 years old. Most kids don't even get that.

I played both games. It's not hard to adjust particularly if you're a fan of both too...

In saying that, only the top talents or guys that came from a rugby background really consider switching. I don't think it's a massive concern in Australia.

The real concern will be R360...we've already seen it a bit with Japanese rugby. R360 will be on steroids compared to that...it's going to be hard to stop players going for a few years to get a big paycheck. I'll be interested to see how that plays out.

 

[Betterdays22]

Sometimes yes, because I interact with the forum every day and I've never met Cooper Cronk.

But often I dismiss both.

I'll tell you why specifically for Cronk: not only is he a blow-hard, but he never played in a bad side. He had an immense career, I'm not going to deny that he was a good footballer, but Cronk only ever played in sides immensely stacked (sometimes illegally stacked) with talent.

Not just good sides, I mean disproportionally stacked sides. Roosters won the 2018 GF in spite of Cronk's broken shoulder, not because of it.

So when Cronk starts to talk about what the Tigers or Knights need to do, I don't actually believe Cronk has sufficient experience to comment. Cronk knows what to do when your team-mates are Slater and Smith, or Tedesco and Latrell and Joey Manu, or QLD Origin.

What does Cronk really know about playing with a sub-par roster? What happens when "taking control" and "kicking to the corners" doesn't cut it because your roster is sub-standard and you can't rely on your blokes to make their tackles every match.

Think you are 100% correct. Joey and JT carried good but not great teams. Think their opinions are probably more valid than Cronk's when talking about the Tigers. He did his legacy a disservice by heading to that stacked Roosters team.

His advice to Latu would be take the Galvin route and walk into a top 4 side.

 

[Tom Shines]

Why do you think that someone just goes and plays rugby union ? What if they have no background in the game - overseas clubs are not going to touch them when there's a ready made supply of European, South African , New Zealand and Pasifika players who are already grounded in the game to chose from. You don't go from being a rugby league prop to a tight head union prop on $500K a year when you feel like it. The ARU doesn't have the funds or the desire to poach untried league players - they are protecting their own ( Jorgensen etc) or going after the players who are at the top and have a background in the game - the days of Tiquiri, Sailor and Rogers are gone.

Firstly, this is a discussion on young NRL players potentially being drafted before they have any first grade experience …how many of these will be on $500k do you think ?

Did you notice I also mentioned overseas ? Rugby league Players have been known to play in Japan and Europe …its not just the ARU that would be a threat…

Rugby Union, here or overseas is another option for talented young players with a background in Rugby League ….as I said, an option the AFL doesn’t have to worry about for their young players