Stefano Utoikamanu #241

[Tim Sheens]

@Glenn5150 and @avocadoontoast, come on guys, enough already.

 

[tony soprano]

The kid needs to go to the Players association for assistance. Denying him the right to sign a professional contract, support his family out of spite for us is very wrong. It has nothing to do with the player, and everything to do with us.
We even gave them Matto for free and now they won't release a 19 year old who's currently their 7th choice at prop?

This just again shows what a grubby club they are !


They have at least 4 of our players at the moment (Ray Stone, Moses, Brown and Matterson) possible others I can't remember

But I wouldn't expect anything different from them

Well maybe we should have some backbone and not release players prematurely? If we had have held out from releasing Matterson we could have used that as a bargaining chip. But we didn't, so here we are. Again.


Yeah thats the spirit!!!! Of course that would have meant that we couldnt have made an offer to Latrell, couldnt have signed Leilua or been involved in the player market, but yeah, we taught Matterson a lesson and looked like tough guys. Shame the player culture has taken a nose dive and there is unrest between the whole player group, but doesnt matter because we feel like tough guys.

If Bellamy was in charge do you think he would have released Matterson with nothing in return? Of course he wouldn’t have.

Ps we didn’t get Mitchell so moot point, and DT reporting we’ve signed LL on $400k a year, which is WAY overs.

Avo, do you see the irony in what you are saying? You are saying we shouldnt have let Matterson go, but complaining that we have bought a player for too much? These too things are mutually exclusive.

Mate this is a genuine post from me. You are constantly bleating and dumping on Tigers management and thats fair enough, thats your opinion and even though I find it monotonous, predicatble and boring, you are entitled to it.

Let me ask you a serious question. You would prefer that we forced Matterson to stay (regardless of what it would have done to the player culture) and spend this offseason out of the the player market and go into 2020 with the same squad and a pissed off RM? Seriously is that what you are suggesting?

I would have held out until we got something in return.

Ok so you didnt answer the question directly but paraphrasing...."yes, I would have held out and kept a poisonous canker within our club and prevented the club from pursuing other better options to improve the squad. What if Parra said "No worries we will wait"?

>And I’ll stop dumping on tigers management when they actually do something worth commending. But at this stage they’ve done nothing to earn my respect. We’ve lost our best player and got nothing in return and all we’ve signed (officially) is Billy Walters. I’m extremely happy that ***you have such unbelievably low expectations*** that you are pleased with that, but some people want a bit more.

Ok, go back and read my post to you. I was gracious. I said I disagree with your POV but didnt denigrate you, you are obviously less gracious. You are also wrong and ignorant. I have unbelievably HIGH expectations, borne from watching and loving this club for a long lifetime as well as a professional lifetime of running business. My expectations are that this clubs management will be active and PROACTIVE. Not sit on their hands making stupid facile virtue signalling points, trying to look tough whilst achieving nothing. I expect them to try to make things happen and improve things, cut out the poison, get in new blood, make changes and THANK GOD, that is exactly what is happening....whereas you would be happy to keep Matterson to "prove a point" and ***entrench*** the status quo. God help us if that happened.


And onto your first point. Matterson we signed up at a bargain rate. Imo he’s a 500-600k player who was on the fringe of SOO last year.

I agree with you that he is worth $500K, coincidentally that is almost exactly what his contract was with the Tigers for 2020.


We let him go for no compensation and his replacement we have signed up for the same money even though he’s probably at best a 250-300k player. Not sure how you’d be happy with that but anyway.

I totally believe you when you say you are not sure why I'd be happy with that despite the fact that I have spelled out clearly in everyone of my posts about this that I am happy because a) we got rid of a poisonous cancer within the club that was so toxic that his team mates kicked him out of an EOY function and Chris McQueen IG'ed that photo...and b) as a result of him leaving the Tigers are able to be active in the player market during the offseason to try to build this squad into something that can achieve some success, you know..... like doing something positive. I have made my reasons for being happy about it ***clearly*** but I understand you still arent sure why because your blindly negative focus results in ignorance.

Unfortunately until the club starts to actually do something worth commending there will be a lot more monotony to come from me.

I wish I was as confident of the sun coming up tomorrow as I am of you continuing to be monotonous.

I wish this club would actually do something commendable, like....I dunno...maybe like..

* Sign a premiership winning coach.

* Appoint our major sponsor as chairman with a long history of successful business and legal acumen behind him,

* Manage a salary cap that was left totally out of control by the previous coach to a point where we reportedly have $1.7M available for 2020 and $5M for 2021

* Start clearing out deadwood from the roster

* Start signing up some of the best junior talent around including multiple junior kangaroos

* Successfully lobby, gain approval for, fund, design and start construction of a Centre of Excellence.

* Consolidate the board with the removal of Wests v Balmain factions and implementation of independent members to take away factionalism.

* Actively, publicly and aggressively pursue some of the best players in the NRL.


>I suggest your best course of action would be to mark me as foe so you don’t have to go through the inconvenience of reading my posts.

Thanks for your suggestion, but Ill make my own decisions. My gut feel is that Ill probably just ignore your posts from now on because they are so totally devoid of logic, intelligence or merit that they are not worthy of response and you have shown yourself as a person not capable of having a conversation with in good faith. Ill probably not mark you as a foe though because to be honest, although your posts are usually inanely monotonous, occassionally you post something so totally moronic that I get a huge belly laugh and I dont want to deprive myself of that sort of entertainment. I may also at my discretion occassionally correct you.

Mark me as foe haha you guys remind me of step brothers, tomorrow you will be best friends building bunk beds.

 

[Tiger5150]

As for all your points of where the club is a success, let me know when that leads to success on the FIELD. They could sign Jesus as coach and have the best facilities on the planet ***but if they don't win anything, who cares. I don't.***


Ah.....you are***THAT*** kind of fan. That makes sense and makes things clearer. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks Glenn, but I live in Australia. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving here. Happy Thanksgiving to you though, wherever you are.

Mate you can always be thankful, no matter where you live.

I was at the Football Club meeting where the Balmain Tigers voted to merge with Wests, Im thankful for that.

The Tigers finally punted Jason Taylor, Im thankful for that

Penrith backdoored us with Ivan Cleary...Im thankful

The Tigers cleaned out their boardroom, thankful

Tigers appointed Madge..thankful

Tigers got Lee as chair...thankful.

Go on...you give it a go

 

[avocadoontoast]

As for all your points of where the club is a success, let me know when that leads to success on the FIELD. They could sign Jesus as coach and have the best facilities on the planet ***but if they don't win anything, who cares. I don't.***


Ah.....you are***THAT*** kind of fan. That makes sense and makes things clearer. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks Glenn, but I live in Australia. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving here. Happy Thanksgiving to you though, wherever you are.


Mate you can always be thankful, no matter where you live.

I was at the Football Club meeting where the Balmain Tigers voted to merge with Wests, Im thankful for that.

The Tigers finally punted Jason Taylor, Im thankful for that

Penrith backdoored us with Ivan Cleary...Im thankful

The Tigers cleaned out their boardroom, thankful

Tigers appointed Madge..thankful

Tigers got Lee as chair...thankful.

Go on...you give it a go

I'm thankful i'm only in my 30's so there is a chance i'll live long enough to see us make the 8.

 

[Tiger5150]

As for all your points of where the club is a success, let me know when that leads to success on the FIELD. They could sign Jesus as coach and have the best facilities on the planet ***but if they don't win anything, who cares. I don't.***


Ah.....you are***THAT*** kind of fan. That makes sense and makes things clearer. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks Glenn, but I live in Australia. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving here. Happy Thanksgiving to you though, wherever you are.


Mate you can always be thankful, no matter where you live.

I was at the Football Club meeting where the Balmain Tigers voted to merge with Wests, Im thankful for that.

The Tigers finally punted Jason Taylor, Im thankful for that

Penrith backdoored us with Ivan Cleary...Im thankful

The Tigers cleaned out their boardroom, thankful

Tigers appointed Madge..thankful

Tigers got Lee as chair...thankful.

Go on...you give it a go

I'm thankful i'm only in my 30's so there is a chance i'll live long enough to see us make the 8.

The sinlge most positive thing Ive seen you post. Well done. Didnt hurt at all did it?

 

[Geo]

You're off the mark @Glenn5150 5150 with avo...we have had our differences from time to time but that was mainly over our short slow winger..

but he is as passiontate supporter as anyone here...

we don't go down the road of I'm a true supporter here...we leave that for facebook..

That is why this is such a great place to debate with passionate Wests tigers fans..

 

[Nelson]

You're off the mark @Glenn5150 5150 with avo...we have had our differences from time to time but that was mainly over our short slow winger..

but he is as passiontate supporter as anyone here...

we don't go down the road of I'm a true supporter here...we leave that for facebook..

That is why this is such a great place to debate with passionate Wests tigers fans..

Pfft no true supporter would say that :face_with_rolling_eyes:

 

[Tiger5150]

You're off the mark @Glenn5150 5150 with avo...we have had our differences from time to time but that was mainly over our short slow winger..

but he is as passiontate supporter as anyone here...

we don't go down the road of I'm a true supporter here...we leave that for facebook..

That is why this is such a great place to debate with passionate Wests tigers fans..

Totally agree Geo, which is self evident from my first post in this recent flurry where I clearly state he is welcome to his opinion (but he is not welcome to project that on me). I respect that he (and nearly everyone here) is a passionate supporter. Anyone here supports a club who is historically and perennially underperforming so to persevere as a fan you must be passionate and a true lover of the club and I respect that of Avo.

To condense it down, (not that it has any consequence), I think that is ***exactly*** what rubs me up the wrong way with Avo's persistent negativity, no matter how much it is based in passion.

This club has persistently struggled. It was born of two struggling clubs and there are systemic impediments in our way at every turn that make it harder and harder to claw our way out. That is why I (and I think the the majority here, just my opinion) are happy to see the club striving to make improvements. One big step in front of the other. Things like appointing Madge as coach, new chair, fixing cap etc etc etc. A struggling club like ours cant, flick a switch, throw $$$$$$$ at a problem and make it go away overnight. It needs to build a club and culture and I genuinely think they are and I have provided plenty of evidence in my posts to Avo. For him (or anyone) to say yeah well none of that matters unless we win, is IMO very small minded, ignorant and an ipediment to good discussion.

But yes I recognise and respect his position here as a passionate supporter as I do you, me and everyone else to be honest.

 

[LeichhardtTiger]

As for all your points of where the club is a success, let me know when that leads to success on the FIELD. They could sign Jesus as coach and have the best facilities on the planet ***but if they don't win anything, who cares. I don't.***


Ah.....you are***THAT*** kind of fan. That makes sense and makes things clearer. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks Glenn, but I live in Australia. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving here. Happy Thanksgiving to you though, wherever you are.


Mate you can always be thankful, no matter where you live.

I was at the Football Club meeting where the Balmain Tigers voted to merge with Wests, Im thankful for that.

The Tigers finally punted Jason Taylor, Im thankful for that

Penrith backdoored us with Ivan Cleary...Im thankful

The Tigers cleaned out their boardroom, thankful

Tigers appointed Madge..thankful

Tigers got Lee as chair...thankful.

Go on...you give it a go

I'm thankful i'm only in my 30's so there is a chance i'll live long enough to see us make the 8.

Don't rewrite History Avo - We won the blo dy Comp in 2005 after 5 years as The JV. Sure things haven't been great since our last top 8th pos 2010 but guess what?

Only 6 different teams have won the Comp since 2010

Only 4 different teams came 2nd during that time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRL_Grand_finals

That's between 10 -12 teams that are in the same boat as us in not being in The Big Dance. Final 8 means nothing unless you Win the GF!

30 yo should know better than that.

 

[LeichhardtTiger]

As for all your points of where the club is a success, let me know when that leads to success on the FIELD. They could sign Jesus as coach and have the best facilities on the planet ***but if they don't win anything, who cares. I don't.***


Ah.....you are***THAT*** kind of fan. That makes sense and makes things clearer. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks Glenn, but I live in Australia. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving here. Happy Thanksgiving to you though, wherever you are.


Mate you can always be thankful, no matter where you live.

I was at the Football Club meeting where the Balmain Tigers voted to merge with Wests, Im thankful for that.

The Tigers finally punted Jason Taylor, Im thankful for that

Penrith backdoored us with Ivan Cleary...Im thankful

The Tigers cleaned out their boardroom, thankful

Tigers appointed Madge..thankful

Tigers got Lee as chair...thankful.

Go on...you give it a go

I'm thankful i'm only in my 30's so there is a chance i'll live long enough to see us make the 8.

Don't rewrite History Avo - We won the blo dy Comp in 2005 after 5 years as The JV. Sure things haven't been great since our last top 8th pos 2010 but guess what?

Only 6 different teams have won the Comp since 2010

Only 4 different teams came 2nd during that time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRL_Grand_finals

That's between 10 -12 teams that are in the same boat as us in not being in The Big Dance. Final 8 means nothing unless you Win the GF!

30 yo should know better than that.

Ugh I meant live long enough to see them make the 8 again.

Anyway I think it might be time to take a timeout from this forum for a bit.

48 hrs? :surfer:

 

[Tiger_Steve]

So from that whole debate....
If we sign Jesus as our coach we are odds on to sin Israel Folau

 

[Fraze23]

He might be able to borrow a mental health card from Mitch Moses. I can't see the Eels forcing him to stay if he wants out.

 

[tony soprano]

He might be able to borrow a mental health card from Mitch Moses. I can't see the Eels forcing him to stay if he wants out.

Or matterson

 

[tony soprano]

As for all your points of where the club is a success, let me know when that leads to success on the FIELD. They could sign Jesus as coach and have the best facilities on the planet ***but if they don't win anything, who cares. I don't.***


Ah.....you are***THAT*** kind of fan. That makes sense and makes things clearer. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks Glenn, but I live in Australia. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving here. Happy Thanksgiving to you though, wherever you are.


Mate you can always be thankful, no matter where you live.

I was at the Football Club meeting where the Balmain Tigers voted to merge with Wests, Im thankful for that.

The Tigers finally punted Jason Taylor, Im thankful for that

Penrith backdoored us with Ivan Cleary...Im thankful

The Tigers cleaned out their boardroom, thankful

Tigers appointed Madge..thankful

Tigers got Lee as chair...thankful.

Go on...you give it a go

I'm thankful i'm only in my 30's so there is a chance i'll live long enough to see us make the 8.

Don't rewrite History Avo - We won the blo dy Comp in 2005 after 5 years as The JV. Sure things haven't been great since our last top 8th pos 2010 but guess what?

Only 6 different teams have won the Comp since 2010

Only 4 different teams came 2nd during that time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRL_Grand_finals

That's between 10 -12 teams that are in the same boat as us in not being in The Big Dance. Final 8 means nothing unless you Win the GF!

30 yo should know better than that.

Ugh I meant live long enough to see them make the 8 again.

Anyway I think it might be time to take a timeout from this forum for a bit.

48 hrs? :surfer:

Business hours?

 

[Needaname]

So we've missed this guy now?
Like Fiji Reggie's?
Like Latrell?
I'm seeing a pattern

Missed for 2020, for now. He’s signed to us from 2021. If they want to spend 2020 developing a kid who will be gone the year after, let them. Shows what idiots they are.

But they won't develop him. They'll leave him to rot in reserves or even Flegg.

And that is the only potential problem that I have in not getting him early. It is not like the Matterson situation, as he is only 19 and on a development deal, so they can pretty well do what they like with him.

I don’t get this?

So a development deal, enables the kid signed to train full time with the first grade squad by the first grade coach, partake in the events / community commitments of the first grade squad.
Be available to play in the first half of the season if there is no first grade squad players available in that position.
Be included in the first grade squad in the second half of the season if the player is selected.

What exactly are Para going to do other than not guarantee him a debut in first grade this year.
Are they going to banish him from training and interacting with the first grade squad?
Please.

 

[Harvey]

As for all your points of where the club is a success, let me know when that leads to success on the FIELD. They could sign Jesus as coach and have the best facilities on the planet ***but if they don't win anything, who cares. I don't.***


Ah.....you are***THAT*** kind of fan. That makes sense and makes things clearer. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks Glenn, but I live in Australia. We don't celebrate Thanksgiving here. Happy Thanksgiving to you though, wherever you are.


Mate you can always be thankful, no matter where you live.

I was at the Football Club meeting where the Balmain Tigers voted to merge with Wests, Im thankful for that.

The Tigers finally punted Jason Taylor, Im thankful for that

Penrith backdoored us with Ivan Cleary...Im thankful

The Tigers cleaned out their boardroom, thankful

Tigers appointed Madge..thankful

Tigers got Lee as chair...thankful.

Go on...you give it a go

I'm thankful i'm only in my 30's so there is a chance i'll live long enough to see us make the 8.

Don't rewrite History Avo - We won the blo dy Comp in 2005 after 5 years as The JV. Sure things haven't been great since our last top 8th pos 2010 but guess what?

Only 6 different teams have won the Comp since 2010

Only 4 different teams came 2nd during that time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRL_Grand_finals

That's between 10 -12 teams that are in the same boat as us in not being in The Big Dance. Final 8 means nothing unless you Win the GF!

30 yo should know better than that.

I was in my prime in 2005, now I am an overweight 45 year old. Let's keep talking up Benji and Robbie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQpW9XRiyM

 

[hsvjones]

Karma will come back and bit them... I know they don't have to release him but it's not like he is a starting player that they will find hard to replace.. He is on a development contract and cannot even play until Rd 16 I believe..

 

[Bathursttiger2]

He could start kicking stones at training, or throw a few games like Mitch.

 

[Cairnstigers]

Matterson had to go
Is it coincidence that he joined Parramatta after all the rumors which circulated prior to November 1
I think not
Should we have used Matterson as a bargaining chip to get an early release for Utoikamanu
Well if we knew at the time then the answer would be yes
But there lies the point
At the time of releasing Matterson we probably didn't know that we were going to sign Utoikamanu
We may have targeted him once Parramatta spent their money on Matterson
It could have been a very smart play by the club as we got under the gard of Parramatta
But instead of congratulating our club for signing the next Payne Hass some of you want to kick our management in the guts without knowing the facts
Parramatta may have just thought hay, let's get Matterson as he is a great player on a cheap deal and he wants out of the Tigers
They spend their money on Matterson and when they do that and let their gard down they have no money left and we pounce on Utoikamanu
Brilliant play I reckon
We don't want players at our club who quite clearly don't want to be here
Now whose our next target from Parramatta
Brown ?
Let's really P them off

 

[momo_amp_medo]

The kid needs to go to the Players association for assistance. Denying him the right to sign a professional contract, support his family out of spite for us is very wrong. It has nothing to do with the player, and everything to do with us.
We even gave them Matto for free and now they won't release a 19 year old who's currently their 7th choice at prop?

This just again shows what a grubby club they are !


They have at least 4 of our players at the moment (Ray Stone, Moses, Brown and Matterson) possible others I can't remember

But I wouldn't expect anything different from them

Well maybe we should have some backbone and not release players prematurely? If we had have held out from releasing Matterson we could have used that as a bargaining chip. But we didn't, so here we are. Again.


Yeah thats the spirit!!!! Of course that would have meant that we couldnt have made an offer to Latrell, couldnt have signed Leilua or been involved in the player market, but yeah, we taught Matterson a lesson and looked like tough guys. Shame the player culture has taken a nose dive and there is unrest between the whole player group, but doesnt matter because we feel like tough guys.

If Bellamy was in charge do you think he would have released Matterson with nothing in return? Of course he wouldn’t have.

Ps we didn’t get Mitchell so moot point, and DT reporting we’ve signed LL on $400k a year, which is WAY overs.

Oh will you please stop whinging.