Strength & Conditioning

[balmain boy]

Noticed this from an article back in Sep 2013 regarding the new coaching additions for 2014 which confirmed Portese was head of the high performance unit, with Skando being one of the guys reporting to him:

The Wests Tigers’ High Performance Unit will also welcome new additions for 2014 and will be led by Luke Portese. This department will specifically be responsible for Strength and Conditioning, Sports Science and Performance Analysis.
>
Strength and Conditioning Coach John Skandalis will be back on board, as will physiotherapist Peter Moussa. Daniel Kerner will join the team as an assistant physiotherapist, replacing Rehabilitation Manager Andrew Leeds.
>
http://www.weststigersforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19335&p=454374

 

[tig_prmz]

Skando is probably there coz he is willing to do his job for less money.

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[guyofthetiger]

Noticed this from an article back in Sep 2013 regarding the new coaching additions for 2014 which confirmed Portese was head of the high performance unit, with Skando being one of the guys reporting to him:

The Wests Tigers’ High Performance Unit will also welcome new additions for 2014 and will be led by Luke Portese. This department will specifically be responsible for Strength and Conditioning, Sports Science and Performance Analysis.
>
Strength and Conditioning Coach John Skandalis will be back on board, as will physiotherapist Peter Moussa. Daniel Kerner will join the team as an assistant physiotherapist, replacing Rehabilitation Manager Andrew Leeds.
>
http://www.weststigersforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19335&p=454374

Thanks for the clarification.
The concern remains the same though.
How well regarded is Luke Portese?
Luck aside, is he the man we need to help the young guns minimise injury, so they can reach their potential?

Are tigerlogic and droffilc able to provide insight on Portese?

 

[droffilc]

Um, i'm not sure where all of you are getting your info from but I was under the impression Luke Portese was the head of Strength and Conditioning and Skando was more of an assistant…

Might want to check facts before jumping the gun...!

But i could be wrong and it could be the other way around. Would seem strange though for someone new to the field to be in charge of someone with more experience...!

I'll admit i jumped the gun and after i posted i did a bit of research and came across that Luke Portese is in charge overall, so i'm guessing he'd be writing up there programs and overseeing whats going on. I've never heard of him and some quick research there's not much out there on him (only thing i found was articles announcing he's in charge of high performance and his twitter). I just checked out the ASCA website and he's listed as a level 1 S&C coach.

I was trying to find last years injuries list to have a look at all the overall types of injuries and weigh in on how preventable they'd be. So far this years injuries have been a mixed bag (a few soft tissue, a few joint injuries). As to what the have done specifically (grade of tear/strain, e.t.c) I can't find (the injury updates just list what part of the body they have injured).

Without the specific injury its hard to gauge where the issue could stem from. For example, obviously tedesco is going to be at high risk of lower limb injuries, it would be interesting to see what measures they've put in place to bullet proof his lower limbs as much as possible.

It would also be interesting to see what they are actually doing in the gym (program and exercise prescription wise) and how they're monitoring them (in terms of wellness and fatigue).

From what I've heard their exercise prescription isn't to crash hot and they don't do a lot of wrestling/contact training and conditioning (besides scrimmaging) .
Source: I've got a good mate (who's a physio) who's brothers are mates with a first grade player, and another mate tied up with the junior programs there.

I guess it's easy for me to sit here and bash on the S&C program, but that's my input and thoughts. At the end of the day it maybe down to the squad being unlucky!

 

[glebe_tiger]

it all comes down to $$$ which we don't have much of unfortunately.

 

[guyofthetiger]

Um, i'm not sure where all of you are getting your info from but I was under the impression Luke Portese was the head of Strength and Conditioning and Skando was more of an assistant…

Might want to check facts before jumping the gun...!

But i could be wrong and it could be the other way around. Would seem strange though for someone new to the field to be in charge of someone with more experience...!

I'll admit i jumped the gun and after i posted i did a bit of research and came across that Luke Portese is in charge overall, so i'm guessing he'd be writing up there programs and overseeing whats going on. I've never heard of him and some quick research there's not much out there on him (only thing i found was articles announcing he's in charge of high performance and his twitter). I just checked out the ASCA website and he's listed as a level 1 S&C coach.

I was trying to find last years injuries list to have a look at all the overall types of injuries and weigh in on how preventable they'd be. So far this years injuries have been a mixed bag (a few soft tissue, a few joint injuries). As to what the have done specifically (grade of tear/strain, e.t.c) I can't find (the injury updates just list what part of the body they have injured).

Without the specific injury its hard to gauge where the issue could stem from. For example, obviously tedesco is going to be at high risk of lower limb injuries, it would be interesting to see what measures they've put in place to bullet proof his lower limbs as much as possible.

It would also be interesting to see what they are actually doing in the gym (program and exercise prescription wise) and how they're monitoring them (in terms of wellness and fatigue).

From what I've heard their exercise prescription isn't to crash hot and they don't do a lot of wrestling/contact training and conditioning (besides scrimmaging) .
Source: I've got a good mate (who's a physio) who's brothers are mates with a first grade player, and another mate tied up with the junior programs there.

I guess it's easy for me to sit here and bash on the S&C program, but that's my input and thoughts. At the end of the day it maybe down to the squad being unlucky!

Thanks Droffilc. There definitely doesn't seem to be a lot of luck.
It's not going to be helped though by having key staff with Level 1 quals while other clubs have the same staff at Level 3 quals, who are seminal figures in the field.

As you say Glebe, it does come down to money, but it's hard to imagine that the salary difference for a role like that would be that massive. Must be plenty out there with Level 2 or higher quals.

Board aside, I still feel this is the heart of the clubs problem.

 

[guyofthetiger]

Wow, looking at the ASCA website, there's a significant difference between Level 1 and 2, and then again between Level 2 and 3, in the strength and conditioning courses.

Outlined here via left side menu - https://www.strengthandconditioning.org/courses/level-1-courses

 

[guyofthetiger]

From what I can tell, as a Level 1, Portese has done 2-day workshop and 30hrs placement, as his training….

 

[patwalker]

Do i recall reading that Lawrence was doing a degree in strength and conditioning? And i think he runs a side business in said field. If so you would think he would be having an input as well.

 

[happy_tiger]

Hi guys, I am a qualified Strength and conditioning coach and work with an NYC team for a rival Sydney club. What I can tell you about skando is this:

1- initially, his quals were extremely basic in personal training not SnC. It was to get him something on paper, it was a job for the boys. He accepted the role then learnt his trade later.

2- as many ppl know, he went to the USA and got some access and exposure to some College football training facilities and methodologies.. He has come back and tried to apply all they did, here to the nrl squad. Without boring you, the two sports have totally different demands and training cannot be simply transferred from one to the other long term.

3- skando likes to use particular types of strength training using power concepts, more than other clubs, many believe there may be a link there with the shoulder knee probs we have , eg, Keith, brooks, nofo etc…

4- I am a qualified level 2 SnC coach and have been working in this sport. For the last few years, recovery, rehab and safe training is a huge point you're taught in this qualification. With my degree I am more qualified than many of the nrl conditioners, but as I said earlier, lots of ex players get jobs for the boys.

Hope this helps guys, provides something for you. Go tigers!

I only joined this forum to weigh in on this discussion. I've always been a tigers fan and I'm also currently working with a nyc team in strength and conditioning (as an intern). My view is exactly the same as the one quoted.

The guys running the strength and conditioning at other nrl clubs are leaps and bounds in front of skando.

Dan Baker (who's in charge of the broncos S&C) has been there since 95\. The guy is a level 3 accredited S&C coach with the asca and a life member. He writes heaps of content for the courses treached through the asca and even in some high performance university courses. Same as David Boyle, who is just finishing up with the sharks. He's Tied up with the asca as well and has been around for years and has been in charge of the warpaths academy, worked with the ARU and has been in charge of the Wollongong hawks (basketball) for years.

the point is it's a position which you just can't give to the boys and i think this season is good evidence of that.

If the Sharks can afford a decent S&C coach then surely we can.
Maybe this David Boyle is still available?
As long as his best practice doesn't come via a 1mL terumo.

David Boyle is the ex Souths and St George hard man from the 80's

Pretty sure he played SOO for NSW

 

[foreveratiger]

Hi guys, I am a qualified Strength and conditioning coach and work with an NYC team for a rival Sydney club. What I can tell you about skando is this:

1- initially, his quals were extremely basic in personal training not SnC. It was to get him something on paper, it was a job for the boys. He accepted the role then learnt his trade later.

2- as many ppl know, he went to the USA and got some access and exposure to some College football training facilities and methodologies.. He has come back and tried to apply all they did, here to the nrl squad. Without boring you, the two sports have totally different demands and training cannot be simply transferred from one to the other long term.

3- skando likes to use particular types of strength training using power concepts, more than other clubs, many believe there may be a link there with the shoulder knee probs we have , eg, Keith, brooks, nofo etc…

4- I am a qualified level 2 SnC coach and have been working in this sport. For the last few years, recovery, rehab and safe training is a huge point you're taught in this qualification. With my degree I am more qualified than many of the nrl conditioners, but as I said earlier, lots of ex players get jobs for the boys.

Hope this helps guys, provides something for you. Go tigers!

I only joined this forum to weigh in on this discussion. I've always been a tigers fan and I'm also currently working with a nyc team in strength and conditioning (as an intern). My view is exactly the same as the one quoted.

The guys running the strength and conditioning at other nrl clubs are leaps and bounds in front of skando.

Dan Baker (who's in charge of the broncos S&C) has been there since 95\. The guy is a level 3 accredited S&C coach with the asca and a life member. He writes heaps of content for the courses treached through the asca and even in some high performance university courses. Same as David Boyle, who is just finishing up with the sharks. He's Tied up with the asca as well and has been around for years and has been in charge of the warpaths academy, worked with the ARU and has been in charge of the Wollongong hawks (basketball) for years.

the point is it's a position which you just can't give to the boys and i think this season is good evidence of that.

If the Sharks can afford a decent S&C coach then surely we can.
Maybe this David Boyle is still available?
As long as his best practice doesn't come via a 1mL terumo.

David Boyle is the ex Souths and St George hard man from the 80's

Pretty sure he played SOO for NSW

yeah he did Happy

 

[Doc_Tiger]

Don't remember him playing for the dragons. Was a very good player though. The classic Billy Birmingham line of Boyle on the burst truing to squeeze the pass out comes flooding back.

 

[MightyMaggy]

This is a little long-winded, but I think the story is worth telling. I have a 24 year old relative, who has graduated from Sturt University with a Bachelor of Exercise and Sport Science. He has continued his studies towards a higher degree by research with the University.
He has had a very good mentor at the University, who directed him to his first practical work, where he worked with a disabled female swimmer. Under his guidance with diet and training schedule, she soon was surpassing her best times to a considerable degree.
As part of his course, he started working with the NSW Waratahs, initially in a learning role with their Super 15 strengthening and conditioning group. He is now leading the strengthening and conditioning group of the junior Waratahs and will continue to do so in the next season.
During the off-season twelve months ago, he worked for some weeks with a Texan (USA) College and some of their sports teams. They were so impressed with his results, they have tried several times to get him to go back, which he will do in the future.
During the past couple of years, he has spent some time at the Sydney Swans and the Sydney Roosters to gain additional, varied experience.
He says it is well-known in the "industry", that the AFL Clubs and the Super 15 Clubs are well ahead of other sports in the scientific approach to strengthening, conditioning and rehabilitation. Other than the Roosters and one or two other rugby league clubs, the NRL clubs, including Wests Tigers, are well behind the times.
This may explain the injury and rehabilitation problems in our Club.

 

[droffilc]

This is a little long-winded, but I think the story is worth telling. I have a 24 year old relative, who has graduated from Sturt University with a Bachelor of Exercise and Sport Science. He has continued his studies towards a higher degree by research with the University.
He has had a very good mentor at the University, who directed him to his first practical work, where he worked with a disabled female swimmer. Under his guidance with diet and training schedule, she soon was surpassing her best times to a considerable degree.
As part of his course, he started working with the NSW Waratahs, initially in a learning role with their Super 15 strengthening and conditioning group. He is now leading the strengthening and conditioning group of the junior Waratahs and will continue to do so in the next season.
During the off-season twelve months ago, he worked for some weeks with a Texan (USA) College and some of their sports teams. They were so impressed with his results, they have tried several times to get him to go back, which he will do in the future.
During the past couple of years, he has spent some time at the Sydney Swans and the Sydney Roosters to gain additional, varied experience.
He says it is well-known in the "industry", that the AFL Clubs and the Super 15 Clubs are well ahead of other sports in the scientific approach to strengthening, conditioning and rehabilitation. Other than the Roosters and one or two other rugby league clubs, the NRL clubs, including Wests Tigers, are well behind the times.
This may explain the injury and rehabilitation problems in our Club.

Impressive resume! I have a feeling i've met him, are his initials A.K?
If so i did a weightlifting course with him. I'm same age and he's doing a lot better then me!

 

[guyofthetiger]

Given the limited funds, is it a massive investment to get the right S&C staff? Compared to a coach's salary?
It seems to me we have a pretty good coach on a feasible salary and $ would be better spent in this department.
Just don't get all the 'sack the coach' sentiment.
Let's address the problem, rather than just bandaid the symptoms.
Get the first grade players on the park on a consistent basis.

 

[tigerlogic]

it all comes down to $$$ which we don't have much of unfortunately.

As someone else mentioned there is a huge difference between a level 1 and 2 course of the ASCA! Our High Performance Manager is a level 1???!!!!!
This is ridiculous and is pitiful for an 'elite' and professional sports team! As I said, I'm a level 2 qualified coach, and I garentee, as a person who is meticulous with this sort of work I could do a better job! Pair me up with another coach if level 2-3 and we could make a difference!
I love the wests tigers and would do it cheap!

Honestly it's just not good enough people! Can't have half qualified people in charge and expect premiership contender results

 

[guyofthetiger]

it all comes down to $$$ which we don't have much of unfortunately.

As someone else mentioned there is a huge difference between a level 1 and 2 course of the ASCA! Our High Performance Manager is a level 1???!!!!!
This is ridiculous and is pitiful for an 'elite' and professional sports team! As I said, I'm a level 2 qualified coach, and I garentee, as a person who is meticulous with this sort of work I could do a better job! Pair me up with another coach if level 2-3 and we could make a difference!
I love the wests tigers and would do it cheap!

Honestly it's just not good enough people! Can't have half qualified people in charge and expect premiership contender results

So it seems it wouldn't cost us that much to upgrade S&C.
Hopefully that's included in the Smith report; likewise, where there's been jobs for the boys, over quality recruitment in these areas.

 

[Snapper]

Hoping someone might be able to provide some insight on the calibre of John Skandalis as strength and conditioning coach. Aside from being a club legend, is he highly regarded in this capacity? How does his qualifications for the role compare to others in the same role for top clubs like Manly, the Storm or Broncos?
I would really like to watch the Tigers play a season of football.
The actual first grade Tigers side.
I no longer believe the injury toll is simply poor luck.
Ballin played his 179th consecutive game for Manly Friday night. Inconceivable as a Tigers supporter!
I don't think we can assess the coach or the squad very effectively unless we get the first grade team playing together on a relatively consistent basis.
I don't want to blame Skandalis unfairly - he may be very highly regarded and hence my question - but to draw a comparison, the Waratahs had a woeful run of injuries until they changed their strength and conditioning coach.

spoke to a sports doctor for a NRL team and A league team (quote just bad luck)

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[DonnyBrasco]

If anyone watches the weetbix injury report on the tigers website, watching it this week it's as though they have been reading this thread…

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[happy_tiger]

If anyone watches the weetbix injury report on the tigers website, watching it this week it's as though they have been reading this thread…

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We wish Weetbix was one of our sponsors :laughing: