Surely the halves experiment is over?

[TrueTiger]

Russell,you and I had a good conversation the other day about our halves…you told me to be patient and don't let the frustration get to me....mate how can I watch the garbage that these two dished out today,once again a very winnable game.....22--0 after 25mins.....
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Absolute disgrace,you did say that I had played the game before and yes,I have,however I was coached to shut down the opposition if you had a lead like that...these guys and not only Brooks and Moses but others clearly are not confident or smart enough to realise that you step up defence and be precise in your attack,cut down mistakes,don't give away penalties and keep the ball close to your chest...

I would like my team to give a fair show at any given game,they will have my support,how can I support the crap they dished out to a great home crowd at LO...I love the WTs and do support them fully,however today I feel the pain of having a fantastic team look like play school and people laughing at my very much loved team and club......

JT has quite abit of work to do if we are to be a force within the next 3-4 years......

Russell I have always respected your opinion and views...this ones mine..cheers...

 

[Blake93]

Moses out, drinkwater or moltzen in. All our attack revolves around brooks and teddy and it works, brooks has won us a lot more games than he's lost us. Moses on the other hand has done absolutely nothing this year.

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[Droppy]

Moses out, drinkwater or moltzen in. All our attack revolves around brooks and teddy and it works, brooks has won us a lot more games than he's lost us. Moses on the other hand has done absolutely nothing this year.

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Absolutely correct.

 

[Russell]

Russell you are the type of supporter that is happy with their club irrespective of the facts. never wishing to citicise or suggest improvements.You need to be passiononate & not fear critising your team if warranted.

Trouble is Droppy - be critical in the right direction.

It was not Moses, Brooks and Siro that lost the game today - as someone else said "we lost it up the middle"

Be critical for the right reason but don't crucify 20 year old kids.
The improvement is patience. putting crap on them because the team lost does not serve any purpose other than undermine their confidence.

 

[Furious1]

I'm in total shock that Moses is copping it over Brooks after that game today. …shock.

Me too. Have you ever seen a softer attempt at tackling in the NRL than Brooks on Whighton ? Honestly I seen better efforts in the under 10's 3rd division yesterday

 

[Russell]

Russell,you and I had a good conversation the other day about our halves…you told me to be patient and don't let the frustration get to me....mate how can I watch the garbage that these two dished out today,once again a very winnable game.....22--0 after 25mins.....
\
\
Absolute disgrace,you did say that I had played the game before and yes,I have,however I was coached to shut down the opposition if you had a lead like that...these guys and not only Brooks and Moses but others clearly are not confident or smart enough to realise that you step up defence and be precise in your attack,cut down mistakes,don't give away penalties and keep the ball close to your chest...

I would like my team to give a fair show at any given game,they will have my support,how can I support the crap they dished out to a great home crowd at LO...I love the WTs and do support them fully,however today I feel the pain of having a fantastic team look like play school and people laughing at my very much loved team and club......

JT has quite abit of work to do if we are to be a force within the next 3-4 years......

Russell I have always respected your opinion and views...this ones mine..cheers...

Agree with you TT to some extent - sometimes it is good to get it off your chest. I also respect your opinion. Believe me, I am not hurting any less than you.

They did get a few things wrong, and in a perfect world we should have gone on and won by 60.
Trouble was, we didn't and it's not a perfect world. They are trying hard and not giving up.

A few of the more experienced players let us down up the middle unfortunately.
I felt angry, disillusioned and frustrated at the game today - just like all the other Tiger supporters that were there - but Mate! as you see these gems unfold from time to time as in Brooks try today - Wow! who is going to stop these guys?

If it helps I liken these two kids load with - a 20 year old put in charge of running say Coles or David Jones with a minimum of experience. The expectation is absolutely massive on these guys.
However our Board made the decision and we as shareholders need to take a few small dividends before the shares jump to record highs and then we clean up.

We'll get there and when we do - it will be so much sweeter.

 

[TurnStyle]

the only thing that really gets to me is something i have banged on about for ages: tackling big guys high up when youre not big yourself!!

i just dont understand it. brooks today tried to tackle some monster high about 7 metres out, got pushed off and the guy scored.

i was never a big guy to play league, and unless i was trying to tie up the ball after a guy was going to score anyway, i always always hit them around the hips/upper thighs. no one can keep going forward if they are laying face first on the turf no matter how big they are!!

as for "experiment"? well, im speechless. obviously sheens has been obliterated from history; now lawrence, fitzhenry at 5/8th, farah and marshall at 7…recruiting jason moodie... now those are experiments dr frankenstein would be proud of!!

 

[beachtiger]

I love Brooks in attack but the kid needs some commitment in defence, some of his attempts today just weren't good enough, shirt grabbing won't cut it at this level.

 

[tsjonathan]

as for "experiment"? well, im speechless. obviously sheens has been obliterated from history; now lawrence, fitzhenry at 5/8th, farah and marshall at 7…recruiting jason moodie... now those are experiments dr frankenstein would be proud of!!

Matt Head at 7, Fulton at 6, Farah at 7 etc etc

 

[clontarfkid]

the only thing that really gets to me is something i have banged on about for ages: tackling big guys high up when youre not big yourself!!

i just dont understand it. brooks today tried to tackle some monster high about 7 metres out, got pushed off and the guy scored.

i was never a big guy to play league, and unless i was trying to tie up the ball after a guy was going to score anyway, i always always hit them around the hips/upper thighs. no one can keep going forward if they are laying face first on the turf no matter how big they are!!

as for "experiment"? well, im speechless. obviously sheens has been obliterated from history; now lawrence, fitzhenry at 5/8th, farah and marshall at 7…recruiting jason moodie... now those are experiments dr frankenstein would be proud of!!

Well…"experiment" is defined as conducting a series of tests to learn about something...
NEWSFLASH....the facts are in after 7 rounds....ie Right now the halves combination are uncompetitive at NRL level..and the team is failing
No more testing required

 

[pHyR3]

kids will come good dont you worry.

there's no experiment this is our halves pairing till at least next year, most likely till 2017.

theyll start hitting their stride next year with experience and some off season work to beef em up.

youll see glimpses now, more and more towards the end of the year.

inconsistency is EXACTLY what immaturity and inexperience means. making decisions at the right time someitmes, and not at others.

Right. By the end of 2017;

1\. Brookes will be able to tackle and stop tries due toplayers running straight at him.
2\. Moses might stop playing as if he is completely out of his depth.

Good luck Wests Tigers fans we will have something to look forward to in 2018.

i said next year theyll come good, not 2018\. Reductio ad absurdum

did you seriously expect two 20 year olds in the HALVES to put together dominating 80 minute performances in round 6? let me know if you see any other halves pairing like that doing any better.

 

[pHyR3]

the only thing that really gets to me is something i have banged on about for ages: tackling big guys high up when youre not big yourself!!

i just dont understand it. brooks today tried to tackle some monster high about 7 metres out, got pushed off and the guy scored.

i was never a big guy to play league, and unless i was trying to tie up the ball after a guy was going to score anyway, i always always hit them around the hips/upper thighs. no one can keep going forward if they are laying face first on the turf no matter how big they are!!

as for "experiment"? well, im speechless. obviously sheens has been obliterated from history; now lawrence, fitzhenry at 5/8th, farah and marshall at 7…recruiting jason moodie... now those are experiments dr frankenstein would be proud of!!

Well…"experiment" is defined as conducting a series of tests to learn about something...
NEWSFLASH....the facts are in after 7 rounds....ie Right now the halves combination are uncompetitive at NRL level..and the team is failing
No more testing required

yea fair enough. lets just cancel their contracts tell them to piss off, screw up our salary cap for the next few years again and then cry about how theyre playing SOO with a new club in a few years time while we're bottom 4 again.

 

[clontarfkid]

the only thing that really gets to me is something i have banged on about for ages: tackling big guys high up when youre not big yourself!!

i just dont understand it. brooks today tried to tackle some monster high about 7 metres out, got pushed off and the guy scored.

i was never a big guy to play league, and unless i was trying to tie up the ball after a guy was going to score anyway, i always always hit them around the hips/upper thighs. no one can keep going forward if they are laying face first on the turf no matter how big they are!!

as for "experiment"? well, im speechless. obviously sheens has been obliterated from history; now lawrence, fitzhenry at 5/8th, farah and marshall at 7…recruiting jason moodie... now those are experiments dr frankenstein would be proud of!!

Well…"experiment" is defined as conducting a series of tests to learn about something...
NEWSFLASH....the facts are in after 7 rounds....ie Right now the halves combination are uncompetitive at NRL level..and the team is failing
No more testing required

yea fair enough. lets just cancel their contracts tell them to piss off, screw up our salary cap for the next few years again and then cry about how theyre playing SOO with a new club in a few years time while we're bottom 4 again.

Think the issue is right now..at the present juncture..this pairing isnt effective but may be in the future.

 

[Tigerspirit]

Experiment? What experiment? This is what we have. This is the combo the club has invested so much time and effort into, like it or lump it. I can cop Brooks cos he has showed glimpses, Moses on the other hand, well all i'll say about Moses is that i hear the raps people have on him and how he's gonna be a star, then i look at a kid like Jack Bird. Now that right there is a kid who is a star in the making. Idk if its just black, white and orange eyes seeing things in some of these kids that aren't there, or if some people are just genuinely bad judges.

moses has showed glimpses too.. maybe not this year.

what do you mean by bad judges? you think you're a better judge than others who picked moses upon years of watching football? im ok with others seeing or not seeing things in him but it's stupid to call others bad judges when they say a 20 yo aus schoolbout is a good player lol

I didn't bluntly say they were bad judges, and i didn't say my opinion was superior. I saw some glimpses last yr of Moses, but overall he's been average. I do believe however that the amount of hubub over guys like Moses and Sirro has been a little overboard from what i've seen of them.

I agree Sirro is so overrated its pathetic, moses has no attack, lawrence is dead wood, and our second rowers are all nsw cup players

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[Newtown]

These guys are on contract for at least another couple of years aren't they the same as Moltzen is? Players do get dropped a grade sometime in their career. I don't see why the club should be held to ransom if Brooks, Moses and Lawrence are dropped to reserves. Sandow was dropped by Parramatta and he has come back as a match winner for the club.

 

[TigerSJ]

Firstly, anyone that is seriously considering Moltzen better be talking about my neighbour Shirley Moltzen because she'd certainly make a better NRL player than Tim (honestly you guys, what were you watching during his last few seasons??).

As for Moses… yes, he is taking a while to adjust to NRL but I actually think his D has improved and he certainly doesn't lack courage. As for his attack it seems to me that JT has them nearly always running the ball to the left away from him - Brooks Teddy Simona Richards direction. However, both Moses and Brooks do have average kicking games ATM and their 5th tackle options particularly have no real thought.

Brooks on the other hand is showing some great attacking ability at times - his first 25 mins today was awesome - and he has shown this enough times to warrant some of the praise he gets IMO. His D on the other hand was very poor today and I am sure he'd be a lot more disappointed than us tonight (although I am soooo disappointed right now).

I am definitely with the side that wants to support the kids, you know the 'cup is half full' group! Seriously, what we are seeing is not all their fault - we have little depth and we are carrying some average guys in our roster. Some of our more experienced players are making mistakes and missing tackles as well. As for today, the team effort really lacked in intent and aggression, it seems the 22 points came too easy and we never knuckled down to match the Raiders for desire. When they lifted a notch we just didn't go with them. This to me points to something more than simply blaming Moses and Brooks, especially considering we were 22 points up, playing our first home game at Leichhardt on a dry Sunday and had everything pointing our way. Only 7 games in - they simply need more time.

 

[Als_Pals]

The Wests Tigers have always banked on the future. Problem is the present is always disappointing. We are constantly being told to be patient. What happens if these guys get injured?
It is always easier to use the future as an excuse but at some stage we actually need good results.

 

[TurnStyle]

Well…"experiment" is defined as conducting a series of tests to learn about something...
NEWSFLASH....the facts are in after 7 rounds....ie Right now the halves combination are uncompetitive at NRL level..and the team is failing
No more testing required

nice riposte clontarfkid. thanks for the newsflash!! :laughing:

if you want to get into semantics, how about i put this a couple of other ways?

lets say you hire a new person for a job: they have just come out of uni, you really think they have what it takes to become a very prudent long term investment for your company.
after 7 weeks, they aren't completely adept in their role and running things by now.

experiment over?

you're thomas edison. after getting everything right for your lightbulb idea you just cant seem to keep the filament alight! you've tried aluminium, copper, lead… but they all keep staying alight for such a short time before burning out!

experiment over?

maybe it takes you a while to give tungsten a try. but once you do finally use it, it stays alight and you now have the lightbulb.

my point is both my examples could very likely have worthy outcomes - hence the investment; the question then becomes at what point do you give up and cut your losses - thinking you are completely off track and need to try something else?

i was using the term experiment in the context that the series of tests conducted often involve ingredients that are considered unlikely to succeed, but rather used simply on the remote chance it will have some sort of positive effect, and discarded after a very short time as further usage is deemed futile.

i used my examples of sheens' player experiments as an analogy for this type of experimentation.

choosing something you are very sure will work eventually and not having immediate success is an investment, not an experiment....

 

[bigsiro]

No half can be considered good enough if he can't tackle.
Moses tackles better than Brooks but his attack has been non existent.

To those saying to hang tight and be patient: we have been patient for years so spare me this investment vs experiment garbage.
I'm a Brooks fan but I was also a Jacob Miller fan. Where did that investment go?

But damn I wish we "invested" in DCE or Thurston or Cronk.

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[pHyR3]

the only thing that really gets to me is something i have banged on about for ages: tackling big guys high up when youre not big yourself!!

i just dont understand it. brooks today tried to tackle some monster high about 7 metres out, got pushed off and the guy scored.

i was never a big guy to play league, and unless i was trying to tie up the ball after a guy was going to score anyway, i always always hit them around the hips/upper thighs. no one can keep going forward if they are laying face first on the turf no matter how big they are!!

as for "experiment"? well, im speechless. obviously sheens has been obliterated from history; now lawrence, fitzhenry at 5/8th, farah and marshall at 7…recruiting jason moodie... now those are experiments dr frankenstein would be proud of!!

Well…"experiment" is defined as conducting a series of tests to learn about something...
NEWSFLASH....the facts are in after 7 rounds....ie Right now the halves combination are uncompetitive at NRL level..and the team is failing
No more testing required

yea fair enough. lets just cancel their contracts tell them to piss off, screw up our salary cap for the next few years again and then cry about how theyre playing SOO with a new club in a few years time while we're bottom 4 again.

Think the issue is right now..at the present juncture..this pairing isnt effective but may be in the future.

theyre putting tries together, moses isnt half bad but is a bit behind brooks due to inexperience, playing right side with lawrence and being underweight.

their issue is defence, and thatll come eventually.

you said 'no more testing required' then whats your solution??