Tennis - The Joker the GOAT?

[Kaito]

 

[bathursttiger1]

It must be a little difficult keeping your feet grounded when fans and media are practically worshipping the guy....sometimes things are going to slip.
Those who are close to him probably think he's a really nice guy....we can't read into media that nuch and the slight language barrier night not help.
However as far as GOAT of tennis he has to be right up there hey.
Our own indigenous female Evonne Fay Goolagong Cawley, Margret Court, The Rockhampton Rocket were considered GOATS of their time but for various reasons there careers didn't seem to go on for ages like modern players, is this right... Or just an assumption?

It’s hard to compare players from different eras as so much has changed rackets, shoes, court surfaces, training, sports medicine, even over the last 20-30 years, let alone 80 years ago.

 

[happy_tiger]

You have to give credit where due - but what an arrogant A-hole!!

I thought Goran Ivanisevic was unlikeable - but this bloke wears the crown!!

Shit ...we finally agree

Can't stand him ...he is right ...certainly a GOAT Giant Obnoxious Asshole & Tosser

 

[happy_tiger]

Federer's style is more pleasing to the eye but Djokovic's style is more effective.

Like Federer never liked the Joker or Nadal ....don't know why I don't like Nadal seems a good lad

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

IMHO, it is especially difficult because:
- the game has changed, e.g. after mostly serve/volleyers generation, now nearly all top players are baseliners ;
- racquet and strings technology improved the overall game e.g. sweet spot area increased -> better control of the ball -> easier to play ;
- the balls are very different - intentional change, to disadvantage serve/volley players;
- the surfaces are different - intentional change, again to disadvantage serve/volley players;
- small group group of players were professionals;
- the players are in general more agile and physically stronger.

So to make the comparison more viable, we have to assume:
- that all players have a choice of the latest technology racquets/strings;
- the court surfaces must be similar/same;
- the balls are the same/similar;
- all players have the opportunity to train in the same/similar condition.
Just a few things to consider when making the comparison.

IMHO, Laver, Hoad, Sampras, Rosewall, Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Connors, Gonzales, Sampras would be very competitive with todays' players

Yeah hard to compare eras but in an era where Djokovic, Nadal and Federer all exist in the same time for them all to finish with over 20 odd grand slam court titles is extremely impressive, and for one to still have years left in him he may well kick away. Could end up with 30+ and I think he'll do it.

 

[upthetigers]

Like Federer never liked the Joker or Nadal ....don't know why I don't like Nadal seems a good lad

??? First I've heard about beef between Fed and Nadal. I thought they were good friends.

 

[happy_tiger]

??? First I've heard about beef between Fed and Nadal. I thought they were good friends.

Sorry I like Federer ....but not Joker or nadal ...not Federer dislikes someone

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

??? First I've heard about beef between Fed and Nadal. I thought they were good friends.

They are.

 

[happy_tiger]

View attachment 4240

Wouldn't these figures be relative to how many tournaments they have played .....NADAL may have played less tournaments than Joker

 

[Cobarcats]

As in football and in every other sport, it’s hard to compare sportspeople’s achievements from different eras due to the many changes over time and greater advantages given to players in more modern times.

That said, Novak is certainly the greatest tennis player I’ve seen in 50 odd years of watching the game and Margaret Court’s achievements are just outstanding, especially considering the dominance of players like Navratilova, Graf & Williams that have come after her, yet couldn’t surpass her!

I mentioned in one of my posts somewhere that we should say "the best of his/her time"
This is the only way to rate players, we can't compare different eras.

 

[philgood]

You have to give credit where due - but what an arrogant A-hole!!

I thought Goran Ivanisevic was unlikeable - but this bloke wears the crown!!

What exactly dont you like about him? Is it because

-He had the guts not to buy into the narrative?
-Stood up to coercion?
-Backed his immune system to fight a virus, instead of a jab which is now causing heart problems and auto immune problems especially in young males?

 

[Kaito]

Wouldn't these figures be relative to how many tournaments they have played .....NADAL may have played less tournaments than Joker

Objectively speaking for sure ...

Still think Novak is the goat though,
regardless of how he's perceived by
the public. In the era of the 3 kings
he is the emperor. Hands down imo

 

[happy_tiger]

Objectively speaking for sure ...

Still think Novak is the goat though,
regardless of how he's perceived by
the public. In the era of the 3 kings
he is the emperor. Hands down imo

He is a great player ....I'm not arguing that ......amazing backhand ......I found Federer prettier to watch I guess ......Nadal just ground players down .....

 

[Kaito]

He is a great player ....I'm not arguing that ......amazing backhand ......I found Federer prettier to watch I guess ......Nadal just ground players down .....

Agree with you on fed express bro
he's all class & played with panache,
was lucky to watch him in his prime
in Dubai years ago. Nadal is great
too. Novak's longevity plays a huge
part in his success as you alluded to

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Yeah hard to compare eras but in an era where Djokovic, Nadal and Federer all exist in the same time for them all to finish with over 20 odd grand slam court titles is extremely impressive, and for one to still have years left in him he may well kick away. Could end up with 30+ and I think he'll do it.

Different valid arguments can be presented, e.g. ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_tennis_records_–_Women%27s_singles#:~:text=It%27s%20extremely%20rare%20for%20a,winning%20the%20"Golden%20Slam"

# of grand slams M Court (24), S Williams (23) ,
total # of titles M Court (192), M Navratilova (167),
number of finals M Navratilova (239), M Court (233)

Women’s Singles:
There have been three women who have won all four majors in one year, they are:

• Maureen Connolly in 1953
• Margaret Court in 1970
• Steffi Graf (who also won Olympic Gold) in 1988

Player	Total	Australian Open	French Open	US Open	Wimbledon
Margaret Court	24	11	5	5	3
Serena Williams	23	7	3	6	7
Steffi Graf	22	4	6	5	7

Arguably, Margaret Court deserves the GOAT title.

Men’s singles:
Just two men have won all four Grand Slams in a single year:

• Don Budge in 1938
• Rod Laver (twice) in 1962 & 1969

 

[Tucker]

Different valid arguments can be presented, e.g. ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_tennis_records_–_Women%27s_singles#:~:text=It%27s%20extremely%20rare%20for%20a,winning%20the%20"Golden%20Slam"

# of grand slams M Court (24), S Williams (23) ,
total # of titles M Court (192), M Navratilova (167),
number of finals M Navratilova (239), M Court (233)

Women’s Singles:
There have been three women who have won all four majors in one year, they are:

• Maureen Connolly in 1953
• Margaret Court in 1970
• Steffi Graf (who also won Olympic Gold) in 1988

Player	Total	Australian Open	French Open	US Open	Wimbledon
Margaret Court	24	11	5	5	3
Serena Williams	23	7	3	6	7
Steffi Graf	22	4	6	5	7

Arguably, Margaret Court deserves the GOAT title.

Men’s singles:
Just two men have won all four Grand Slams in a single year:

• Don Budge in 1938
• Rod Laver (twice) in 1962 & 1969

There is one flaw in your logic.
Margaret Court did not play against men.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

I don't care about baseliners , I prefer serve/volley players, and the best (IMHO) is Stefan Edberg, and then a group: Pete Sampras, John McEnroe and Lew Hoad.

 

[Flippedy]

Like Federer never liked the Joker or Nadal ....don't know why I don't like Nadal seems a good lad

Nadal is a boring baseline player. Wears people down with his ground strokes for sure, but has little variety in his game that makes him interesting to watch, imo. All that twitching and stuffing around in between points doesn’t help either.

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]

And Dogs signing spree continues
And they are still under the salary cap amazing

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

And Dogs signing spree continues
And they are still under the salary cap amazing

View attachment 4251

perhaps they will also sign Rafa Nadal, Roger Federer, LeWoke James, Nikola Jokic, Stephen Curry, Giannis, Tim Brady, Tyson Fury, Olexander Usyk, Anthony Joshua, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Leo Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Luka Modric all within their salary cup
Nothing to see here, move on