The calls. Good and bad

[Tiger_Steve]

Was sitting at the ground aiming parra supporters, I gotta say, they are some of the whingingest mob I’ve ever been around…. every play the we’re b**** about us being off side... lol it’s like they only knew one rule and just kept repeating it all arvo... and the ground announcer.... dear lord.... I understand pumping up the crowd, but let me concentrate on the game for God’s sake....

What about all the music in between plays - drove me nuts. Thought I was at the big bash!

 

[sideline_eye]

Was sitting at the ground aiming parra supporters, I gotta say, they are some of the whingingest mob I’ve ever been around…. every play the we’re b**** about us being off side... lol it’s like they only knew one rule and just kept repeating it all arvo... and the ground announcer.... dear lord.... I understand pumping up the crowd, but let me concentrate on the game for God’s sake....

Yes, something absolutely needs to be done about ground announcers, especially at grounds such as ANZ where the sound system is so good that it was giving me a headache yesterday. They should only be allowed to speak during breaks in play.

On the subject of crowd penalties, there were a few yesterday and we all do it but surely the referees should be professional enough to ignore supporters, given that most only have a meagre understanding of the rules at best.

 

[jirskyr]

OK, I accept that, so how can we simplify the adjudication? If we can't go by the direction the ball travels over the ground, we need to look at something else. So, what if we say that the bunker can rule on forward passes in the same way that they rule on offside plays. That is, if the passer throws the ball to another player who is in front of the passer at the moment of release, then that is deemed a forward pass; indeed it means that the receiver is offside. All it takes is for the replay to be frozen at the point of release and the relative positions of the passer and receiver checked just as happens now with kicks.

I saw in the Australian Rugby video that a truly forward pass would be almost impossible to catch but I also noted that they used the example of two players some metres apart and running at near top speed. I don't disagree with that but if the players were closer together, for instance with a short offload, this no longer applies; the ball can easily be caught and it would show up in the replay whether the receiver was offside or not.

If this was done when the referee goes to the bunker for confirmation of the try, a penalty should be given when the receiver is in front of the passer, just the same as any other offside play. I'd be interested to know what others think of this, my never ending quest for truth, justice, the American way and the detection of forward passes and offside play.

I understand where you are coming from, I just don't think it's feasible when you get to the nitty-gritty of it.

Offsides for kicks are one thing, because momentum of the kicker is irrelevant, as is the kick trajectory. But for passes, momentum of the passer is important, because as you noted, it is still possible to throw a pass backwards and have someone catch it in front of where you threw it.

So you are right, if the players were close together and not running at top-speed, it would be easier to use feet position as a marker of whether the pass went forward or not. But the question is how to make that call? How close do they have to be together and how slowly do they need to be running? Becomes pretty technical.

As I noted before, as far as I am aware, the most probable way of tracking forward passes is to have a GPS football with triangulation, so the ball itself can tell you where it moved from and take away the existing momentum. Ideally the football would constantly self-measure, be aware of the difference of being held / passed / dropped / kicked, and alert the ref when it went forwards.

But it hasn't happened yet. Maybe the physics of it is just too complicated or the measuring equipment too expensive / difficult to set up at every field?

 

[tig_prmz]

i'd change it to:

the first point of contact of the ball after release needs to be behind the player's hands.

so whether the player drops it or passes it along the ground whatever it is- as long as the first contact (either with another player or the ground) is behind the player.

 

[sideline_eye]

OK, I accept that, so how can we simplify the adjudication? If we can't go by the direction the ball travels over the ground, we need to look at something else. So, what if we say that the bunker can rule on forward passes in the same way that they rule on offside plays. That is, if the passer throws the ball to another player who is in front of the passer at the moment of release, then that is deemed a forward pass; indeed it means that the receiver is offside. All it takes is for the replay to be frozen at the point of release and the relative positions of the passer and receiver checked just as happens now with kicks.

I saw in the Australian Rugby video that a truly forward pass would be almost impossible to catch but I also noted that they used the example of two players some metres apart and running at near top speed. I don't disagree with that but if the players were closer together, for instance with a short offload, this no longer applies; the ball can easily be caught and it would show up in the replay whether the receiver was offside or not.

If this was done when the referee goes to the bunker for confirmation of the try, a penalty should be given when the receiver is in front of the passer, just the same as any other offside play. I'd be interested to know what others think of this, my never ending quest for truth, justice, the American way and the detection of forward passes and offside play.

I understand where you are coming from, I just don't think it's feasible when you get to the nitty-gritty of it.

Offsides for kicks are one thing, because momentum of the kicker is irrelevant, as is the kick trajectory. But for passes, momentum of the passer is important, because as you noted, it is still possible to throw a pass backwards and have someone catch it in front of where you threw it.

So you are right, if the players were close together and not running at top-speed, it would be easier to use feet position as a marker of whether the pass went forward or not. But the question is how to make that call? How close do they have to be together and how slowly do they need to be running? Becomes pretty technical.

As I noted before, as far as I am aware, the most probable way of tracking forward passes is to have a GPS football with triangulation, so the ball itself can tell you where it moved from and take away the existing momentum. Ideally the football would constantly self-measure, be aware of the difference of being held / passed / dropped / kicked, and alert the ref when it went forwards.

But it hasn't happened yet. Maybe the physics of it is just too complicated or the measuring equipment too expensive / difficult to set up at every field?

Well, for instance in one of Parramatta's tries, there were two passes that seemed to be thrown to a player in front of the passer. If they were allowed, the bunker refs could have looked at it in freeze frame and if it was clear that the pass(es) were thrown to a player in front, they could have ruled no try. If it wasn't clear, they could do what they often do and say "not enough evidence". Of course, this would always be subject to the on field referee sending it to the bunker but I think they would do so fairly regularly if it was allowed.

Apart from the technicalities of adjudication, I just hate to see the game undermined by forward passes/ offside play when I do believe that it is possible to check at least a proportion of these plays.

 

[TCL]

I was watching the game on the telly and right at the time we conceded soft try the crowed announcer started caring on like a pork chop,so i thought the tackle thad been completed and the ref had called held. It was rather confusing i thought the ref was going to call the play back.