The Immortals

[diedpretty]

Just looking at another post about the hatred for Cam Smith. I was wondering on what are peoples thoughts on the Immortals given that Cam will no doubt be added to the list.
Given that this is the requirement "To be chosen as an Immortal is the greatest honour a player can receive and it is widely considered that to earn the accolade he needs to have changed the game or had an impact beyond his career."
The question is should players like Cam Smith who were complicit in salary cap cheating be accepted in The Immortals? Should players like Andrew Johns be stripped of their titles when it is historically found he was a drug cheat? Should the status of Immortality only be bestowed on those who excelled on the field and gave back to the game after their careers - and i don't mean as a dropkick no talent commentator.

 

[cochise]

Just looking at another post about the hatred for Cam Smith. I was wondering on what are peoples thoughts on the Immortals given that Cam will no doubt be added to the list.
Given that this is the requirement "To be chosen as an Immortal is the greatest honour a player can receive and it is widely considered that to earn the accolade he needs to have changed the game or had an impact beyond his career."
The question is should players like Cam Smith who were complicit in salary cap cheating be accepted in The Immortals? Should players like Andrew Johns be stripped of their titles when it is historically found he was a drug cheat? Should the status of Immortality only be bestowed on those who excelled on the field and gave back to the game after their careers - and i don't mean as a dropkick no talent commentator.

Should be based on playing career only, Cam Smith was never found guilty of salary cap cheating and Andrew Johns never suspended for drug use. They are both have questionable personal lives but are/were amazing footballers.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.

 

[diedpretty]

Just looking at another post about the hatred for Cam Smith. I was wondering on what are peoples thoughts on the Immortals given that Cam will no doubt be added to the list.
Given that this is the requirement "To be chosen as an Immortal is the greatest honour a player can receive and it is widely considered that to earn the accolade he needs to have changed the game or had an impact beyond his career."
The question is should players like Cam Smith who were complicit in salary cap cheating be accepted in The Immortals? Should players like Andrew Johns be stripped of their titles when it is historically found he was a drug cheat? Should the status of Immortality only be bestowed on those who excelled on the field and gave back to the game after their careers - and i don't mean as a dropkick no talent commentator.

Should be based on playing career only, Cam Smith was never found guilty of salary cap cheating and Andrew Johns never suspended for drug use. They are both have questionable personal lives but are/were amazing footballers.

So you don't take in to account the part of having an impact beyond their career? The fact that Johns was taking drugs during career must surely be taken in to account as having an impact on hi s career. And where do you draw the line ?

 

[cochise]

Just looking at another post about the hatred for Cam Smith. I was wondering on what are peoples thoughts on the Immortals given that Cam will no doubt be added to the list.
Given that this is the requirement "To be chosen as an Immortal is the greatest honour a player can receive and it is widely considered that to earn the accolade he needs to have changed the game or had an impact beyond his career."
The question is should players like Cam Smith who were complicit in salary cap cheating be accepted in The Immortals? Should players like Andrew Johns be stripped of their titles when it is historically found he was a drug cheat? Should the status of Immortality only be bestowed on those who excelled on the field and gave back to the game after their careers - and i don't mean as a dropkick no talent commentator.

Should be based on playing career only, Cam Smith was never found guilty of salary cap cheating and Andrew Johns never suspended for drug use. They are both have questionable personal lives but are/were amazing footballers.

So you don't take in to account the part of having an impact beyond their career? The fact that Johns was taking drugs during career must surely be taken in to account as having an impact on hi s career. And where do you draw the line ?

No I don't it is based on playing ability only, coaching after playing is not even considered. Should we go back and investigate Raper's off field antics as well? The Immortals concept has always been about playing ability.

 

[diedpretty]

The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.

On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

 

[BAGNF05]

The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Have read Joey’s book and he was a self-confessed party animal suffering from bipolar disorder. But he somehow managed to maintain his performance at the highest of high levels. Joey would look at the draw and work out when he had a long week, a Friday night game, and that would be a two day bender. That’s not performance enhancing, it’s not healthy but not PE. Joey also lead a small-town battling club to two premierships, he didn’t rely on a billion dollar news Ltd machine that lied and cheated its way to success.

 

[diedpretty]

The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Have read Joey’s book and he was a self-confessed party animal suffering from bipolar disorder. But he somehow managed to maintain his performance at the highest of high levels. Joey would look at the draw and work out when he had a long week, a Friday night game, and that would be a two day bender. That’s not performance enhancing, it’s not healthy but not PE. Joey also lead a small-town battling club to two premierships, he didn’t rely on a billion dollar news Ltd machine that lied and cheated its way to success.

Yeah right - you take drugs - you play - and it doesn't help - ok - I'm glad Joey explained that. Its not even the point any way - the question is - should he have been considered an Immortal when it was Known he was taking drugs while he was playing? Other player have been excluded from the game for taking party drugs.

 

[BAGNF05]

The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Have read Joey’s book and he was a self-confessed party animal suffering from bipolar disorder. But he somehow managed to maintain his performance at the highest of high levels. Joey would look at the draw and work out when he had a long week, a Friday night game, and that would be a two day bender. That’s not performance enhancing, it’s not healthy but not PE. Joey also lead a small-town battling club to two premierships, he didn’t rely on a billion dollar news Ltd machine that lied and cheated its way to success.

Yeah right - you take drugs - you play - and it doesn't help - ok - I'm glad Joey explained that. Its not even the point any way - the question is - should he have been considered an Immortal when it was Known he was taking drugs while he was playing? Other player have been excluded from the game for taking party drugs.

he was combining those drugs with copious amounts of alcohol, so he certainly wasn’t treating his body as a temple and there’s no way he was gaining any physical edge. You could argue it was a mental release for him but I think that’s a stretch. Guess it depends on your own view of greatness, is what happens when he leaves the field relevant? On it he was the best I’ve seen.

 

[diedpretty]

The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Have read Joey’s book and he was a self-confessed party animal suffering from bipolar disorder. But he somehow managed to maintain his performance at the highest of high levels. Joey would look at the draw and work out when he had a long week, a Friday night game, and that would be a two day bender. That’s not performance enhancing, it’s not healthy but not PE. Joey also lead a small-town battling club to two premierships, he didn’t rely on a billion dollar news Ltd machine that lied and cheated its way to success.

Yeah right - you take drugs - you play - and it doesn't help - ok - I'm glad Joey explained that. Its not even the point any way - the question is - should he have been considered an Immortal when it was Known he was taking drugs while he was playing? Other player have been excluded from the game for taking party drugs.

he was combining those drugs with copious amounts of alcohol, so he certainly wasn’t treating his body as a temple and there’s no way he was gaining any physical edge. You could argue it was a mental release for him but I think that’s a stretch. Guess it depends on your own view of greatness, is what happens when he leaves the field relevant? On it he was the best I’ve seen.

I get where you are coming from - he was an absolute great footballer - one of the best - what i' am getting at is the tag of Immortalitalty given out loosely - should it be about achievements on the field and exemplary behaviour off the field including what you give back to the game afterwards or just about your performance on the field even tough you were you were absolute dropkick.

 

[cochise]

Off field achievements are not considered.

 

[diedpretty]

Off field achievements are not considered.

Thats not what it says in consideration

 

[JD Tiger]

For mine, Joey Johns was deliberately breaking the rules of the game by taking party drugs. And stories were that the Knights knew about it, and helped cover it up so he wouldn't be caught in drug tests. That's not the actions of an Immortal. That's the actions of a cheat. The fact they made Johns an Immortal after his drug use was public knowledge cheapens the whole Immortal concept in my view.

Cam Smith was a cheat also with the double contracts, though they didn't prove that publicly, so unfortunately there isn't much stopping them from making him an Immortal.

 

[diedpretty]

Off field achievements are not considered.

It also says has an impact after the game - Cam will always be considered a cheat = thats an impact. Johns will always be remembered for taking drugs - that s an impact . so we just ignore those facts.

 

[cochise]

Off field achievements are not considered.

It also says has an impact after the game - Cam will always be considered a cheat = thats an impact. Johns will always be remembered for taking drugs - that s an impact . so we just ignore those facts.

Do you have a link for that? If that is true they changed the criteria because it was only onfield achievements.

It doesn't matter if Cam will be considered a cheat by you, he isn't considered a cheat by the game.

 

[hobbo1]

Off field achievements are not considered.

It also says has an impact after the game - Cam will always be considered a cheat = thats an impact. Johns will always be remembered for taking drugs - that s an impact . so we just ignore those facts.

The NRL has never had any integrity mate ..
So unfortunately you’re just pissing into the wind .

 

[jirskyr]

Off field achievements are not considered.

Thats not what it says in consideration

I wonder then are they thinking about stripping Changa of his Immortality since he was charged shortly before his death?

 

[gallagher]

It lost its aura for me when Meninga became one. Any good player can become one now.

 

[cochise]

It lost its aura for me when Meninga became one. Any good player can become one now.

I also think the timeline for future inductions is too frequent.

 

[gallagher]

It lost its aura for me when Meninga became one. Any good player can become one now.

I also think the timeline for future inductions is too frequent.

It's not that special now.