The National Anthem

[TIGER]

As i mentioned earlier in the thread i couldnt care less who sung and who didnt, but i thought Walker who had a very poor game and got dragged. Put himself under undue media pressure with his statement in his debut game, he's not a veteran so much pressure already why add more. As for the other indigenous blokes i didnt notice if they sung or not because i dont think its a huge issue.
And as much as it pains me to say because it's NZ, they do their anthem right. The start of the anthem in Maori and finishes in english is inclusive of their Indigenous population. I dont even know if something like that would be possible for us as there are so many variations in dialect someone else more knowledgeable would be to confirm about that i guess.
And just to add to discussion i dont think our Anthem is an Anthem as such because i believe an Anthem should include a reference to god, so therefore i think ours is just a national song, which doesnt have a great deal of history behind it anyway.

A reference to God, Huh!! Why?

You realise a God hasn't been proven to exist right?

Why not a reference to Zeus, Odin, Hercules, Buddha, Mithra, Horace, Vishnu, The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I think we should leave superstition out of our national anthem.
The penny drops about the existence of God around the same time we realise Santa isn't real, for others it seems it takes longer.

Walk into any Children's hospital and it's pretty obvious there's no God or at least not one that cares about human beings.

Mate i've spent plenty of time in children's hospitals my daughter has had 3 open heart surgeries, im not religious im just stating a fact i heard, we dont have an anthem we have a national song and i could care less who did or didnt sing it. Im not here to debate whether or not god exists. Have you listened to the majority of national anthems around the world have you noticed the reference to god of whatever country where that particular god is the majority?

Yeah and I laugh that they mention an imaginary friend in their anthem.
I don't see how referencing God is a requirement for a national anthem, besides Australia is a secular country.

The indiginous would want the rainbow serpent mentioned and the Christians would want their God mentioned, so it's best we keep the imaginary friends out of it I think.

 

[Abraham]

@TIGER Don't open a pandora's box that you can't easily close.

I'd say Atheists have 1000 x more blind faith than people who believe in God.

Whats the latest atheist explanation for our existence again ... something about alien eggs and multiple universes? Very scientific and rational indeed.

 

[happy_tiger]

Thinking this has gotten slightly off track

 

[gallagher]

Will ch9 have a camera in Walkers living room for origin 2 for his non singing?

 

[TIGER]

@TIGER Don't open a pandora's box that you can't easily close.

I'd say Atheists have 1000 x more blind faith than people who believe in God.

Whats the latest atheist explanation for our existence again ... something about alien eggs and multiple universes? Very scientific and rational indeed.

Atheists don't take anything on 'faith' because they understand that faith is unreliable in determining whether something is true or not, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Besides, Atheism says nothing about how the universe began or how life began it's simply the lack of belief in a god/s, so again I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Abraham]

@TIGER So your an agnostic then? Or just confused?

 

[jirskyr]

Its also proven that they dominated and eradicated pygmy tribes in northern Queensland

Well if only the Pygmy Tribes of North Queensland were still around to complain about their poor treatment. Maybe if the white man had eradicated all the Aborigines at the beginning we'd have less to worry about now - just chalk up one more culture for the "constant" human desire for war and expansion.

And because you indigenous fellows were beating up on someone else, two wrongs make a right and we'll reign hell upon you.

 

[Geo]

Ok..I knew it would eventually happen..just keep it civil....

Besides the answer is purple monkey dishwasher..

 

[dazza65]

As usual, whenever the topic gets political (elections, same-sex, aboriginal rights, environment etc etc etc) there will never ever be a consensus so the sniping will go on ad infinitum.

Re the NATIONAL anthem which, in my opinion, should only be rolled out for genuine Australian/International occasions, i believe the great majority of people don't give a hoot whether participants sing it or not.

I'm far more interested in RESPECT - respect for our country, all of its people, past present and future. I don't care if you sing or don't, respect the game, the occasion and the fact that some people do want to sing the anthem that may represent them, personally. Most of these people will also sing (or not) when and if a "more inclusive" anthem is ever delivered.

As it stands, rightly or wrongly, it is the current national anthem that demands due respect for that simple reason alone.

Get on your soap box and call for change to whatever the "current issue" of the day if you want to, because at the end of the day, that what's great about Australia, we should all feel free to voice our opinion about whatever we like - just do it with respect to both sides of the situation and don't think just because you have an avenue to speak (media, social media (ppfff)) etc that you are automatically correct and have the moral high ground

 

[hodgo]

@jirskyr Lol not at all mate it was to show that it constantly happens and is part of human nature. But you take it how you want. Nice minimal selection of my points too champ, context is everything.

 

[Abraham]

Guys can we make a gentleman's agreement to never use the term **"white privilege"** on here ever, ever, ever again? Like, ever again.

And furthermore, can we agree to give a life ban and a Manly Sea Eagles face-tattoo to anybody who uses the term from this time forward?

Legal Disclaimer: This is not directed at anyone in particular. Just a friendly suggestion.

 

[dazza65]

@Abraham Hear Hear

 

[TIGER]

@TIGER So your an agnostic then? Or just confused?

I'll help you understand.

If you're agnostic you have to be agnostic about something, in this case it's the belief in the existence of God.

I don't believe a god exists -
So I'm an Agnostic Atheist. (I'm not making a knowledge claim I'm rejecting the claims of others hence 'Agnostic')
But
If I claimed that 'I know a god doesn't exist' -
Then I'd be a 'Gnostic Atheist' (I'd be making a knowledge claim that I know a god doesn't exist hence 'Gnostic')

Same with Agnostic Theists and Gnostic Theists.
Gnostics are making a knowledge claim, therefore they have a burden of proof.

So there's no such thing as an Agnostic, you're either an Agnostic Atheist or an Agnostic Theist.
I'm an Agnostic Atheist, I'm not claiming a god doesn't exist, I just don't accept the claim that one does due to the fact that nobody can meet their burden of proof.
Every definition of God is of a supernatural being and as of right now we have no way to confirm that anything supernatural exists, therefore I have no justification for holding a belief in that anything supernatural exists.

If you have a way to confirm the supernatural I'd like to know what it is, do you?

Hope you understand now.

 

[Abraham]

@TIGER

Lets not get mixed up in semantics. You're an atheist.

You claim that a burden of proof is central to your position, but logic is also a burden of proof to my position. So can you meet the burden of proof that the Supernatural doesn't exist? Because that's the next logical step of anybody who seriously wants to contemplate any form of atheism.

Through natural means you cannot obtain matter from non-matter, life from non-life, or consciousness from unconsciousness. There is an absolute scientific basis to those facts.

So if they cannot be achieved through natural means, and we affirm the existence of matter, life, and consciousness which were created and non-eternal, then that leaves the realistic possibility (probably he only possibility) that they would be required to be created through super-natural means.

If you make a proclamation that God, or the Supernatural doesn't exist, but then stop dead in your tracks without examining the ramifications of your statement and the logical conclusions that must follow from it, you're taking a very superficial stance on a matter which you are voluntarily very vocal about.

That's why atheists have now had to imagine up the pan-spermia theory. They want a logical consistency to their views, but cannot find one through the natural sphere. So even they have affirmed the Supernatural , except their supernatural creator is an Alien from some multiple universe, rather than the God of the Bible.

There is also alot to be said for your "arguments against God" in your previous posts ... but i will leave those for another time as they have been asked and answered about a zillion times over the course of human history.

I know this isnt a theology thread, so happy for Mods to move the conversation as it is off topic.

 

[newtiger]

Thinking this has gotten slightly off track

Name one topic that doesn't meander off track

 

[happy_tiger]

Thinking this has gotten slightly off track

Name one topic that doesn't meander off track

Happy Birthday , Merry Xmas and Happy Mothers and Fathers days threads

 

[newtiger]

I think that last year during the Indigenous Round, where was a version of our National Anthem, with both English and Aboriginal language.
I thought this was a really good version, similar the New Zealand Anthem which is sung in English and Maori.
This could be used to strengthen ties and start to bring our Nation together.

 

[Danny Blanco]

@bathursttiger +1 also Sth. African anthem

 

[Harvey]

@formerguest Great post mate! People keep saying that indigenous people are playing the victim card over events from 200 years ago. I don't understand how people don't get that these things happened much more recent than that!

More than that - people obviously don't understand how the events of 200 years ago still affect modern day.

That's the core of White Privilege and white folks (esp. white men) like myself need to be aware of that. It's not just young Joe White and young Joe Indigenous on equal footing from their birth in 2000, it's the experience of their parents, and their parents' parents etc.

Most white people have a natural advantage in the world - because white people made it that way! White folks have historically attempted to dominate basically every other culture they have come across and in most respects that has been to the ongoing detriment of native populations. Just take a look around, how are Aboriginals faring in 2019 compared to everyone else? What about indigenous South Americans, Native Amerians, the Inuit, African Americans - all disadvantaged.

And it's not just white folks obviously, the Chinese and Japanese also have a terrible history of subjugation of certain native populations, as I am sure also exists in Africa.

It's not your fault that your antecedents behaved in ways that were unjust, but you do benefit from it even if the actions were from several hundred years ago.

So you do need to give a leg-up to Joe Indigenous, because on the whole his people still suffer an inequality based on the actions of the white colonisers who arrived here in 1788. That's not your fault, but it's also not his fault.

Jeez that sounds racist. Replace white with any other social group in that post and there would be a social justice warrior lynch mob after you.

 

[Harvey]

I think that last year during the Indigenous Round, where was a version of our National Anthem, with both English and Aboriginal language.
I thought this was a really good version, similar the New Zealand Anthem which is sung in English and Maori.
This could be used to strengthen ties and start to bring our Nation together.

There is no aboriginal language. Most groups had their own language. It could be interesting, pick one and watch the others boycott because their ancestral language is not included.