The repeating pattern...

[ElleryHanley]

Woke up this morning and saw "Dragon's skipper signs four year deal with new club" and, I must admit, I punched the air a bit with joy...presumed it was us...sat down, made a coffee to enjoy with the 'good news'...

And then realised he has joined, of all teams, Cronulla...

To compound it...to play 13 for them.

There is a fairly established pattern of rep / elite level players "meeting with Madge" a month or two prior, "sitting on" an offer from us...being heavily linked with us as the only suitor...

And then signing elsewhere the moment another team comes in for them...

It deserves discussion. We have been able to land some good youngsters, and been able to land several misfits / last chance type players...

**But we have not been able to land that 24-28 yo in their prime elite level player / NSW Origin level player basically ever since we were formed.**

This one stings a bit as he would have been perfect at 13 for us / has all the traits we need / has a relationship prior with Madge...and, worst of all, Cronulla are a mess with most of their best players about to file for pensions. Yet he still chose them over us.

Why exactly deserves discussion...
LM
JAC
McIness

We did not make an offer for McInnes - no more repeating pattern.

You'll be happy about that.

The Pom and a few other 'insiders' said we were chasing very hard...


Thats not what the Pom says in the signing suggestions - he says no formal offer was made as McInnes said he only wanted to play 9 and all dealings ceased.

Okay, that would change things.

However, it appears he is going to Cronulla to play 13...

 

[momo_amp_medo]

It may have been us who decided not to pursue.

Yah hope it was us coming to our senses.

Would have been a terrible, unnecessary signing. Stoked we 'missed' out.

Moh...you don't think we need:
A 13?
A player who can make 50 plus tackles a game / extremely high ratio of made tackles?
Fearless?
Warrior mentality?
Mobile enough to cover the field and balance our bigger, less mobile, pack?

That is **exactly** what we need.

I feel the days of giant locks are gone with the speed of the game now. Cam Murray, Jai Arrow, Jake Turbo are all mobile, athletic locks with a bit of ball play and can tackle the house down. McInnis is 100% in this mould and would have been perfect. That's not even factoring his competitive nature and hard work ethic.

For 3 yrs maybe,but 4 no way for a 27yr old small lock who has done a lot of hard yards.Yes he's a good footballer,but so were Packer,JR,and mbye,we bought them on the downslide and thats why we ruined our roster.I think we can do better.

Clubs have been heartbroken over and over again by giving long contracts to small back row forwards with a lot of miles on the clock, though TBF McInnes aged 28-31 isn't exactly Watmough aged 31-34. It's not as if there's no risk in the McInnes deal, though.

Personally I'm in the camp of thinking 500k a year for four is a pretty decent contract and I suspect McInnes could have improved our team, but equally I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over not getting him.

They are just group of anti WT reporting cronies always looking for an opportunity to put the boot in and fishing for reaction.
They just can’t stand the fact that the Club has their number and continues to ignore them. And that hurts them more than abuse anyone may direct their way.
Let’s just have a good year and prove them all wrong.

 

[jadtiger]

I thought an offer had to be made for us to miss out

Not if you are the murdoch media,they know how to spread lies

 

[ElleryHanley]

We have done a great job in recruitment over the last few months considering we are a team that has missed the finals for like 10 years, 4 home grounds and players so called wanting out, etc.. Having said that I think the only way we will recruit a SOO quality player in his prime without over paying is to win games and make finals.
I truly believe if we were to make the finals this year and the COE coming we will get them.

Agreed...we have done a really good job, except for the elite blokes.

For reference re this discussion (which, so far, has raised some very good point both ways)... I am not just talking about 'now'.

We have never landed a current Kangaroo ever, for example. Nor a current NSW player.

Only club not to have done so.

That suggests there must be a reason?

Agree mate...
with us focusing on the top youngsters and getting rid of the dead wood we are heading in the right direction though. If we start playing well and players like look like they are enjoying themselves it will help attract them.. Time will tell but i feel some much better about the team now then 4 months ago.

We have got the basis of a good team...

IMO we are short of:
1. A backrower with speed who can motor across the ground / great cover D. Our pack right now is very big...but has a lot of blokes who fatigue and arm grab. McIness would have solved that.

2. The spine is potentially very poor / potentially very good. Only time will tell. (Mbye can't catch high balls / Jacob breaks down / Brooks fails to step up / AD proves to be a jack of all trades, master of none.**.......OR...**.Mbye finds his old form / Jacob finally gets time and proves how good he is (i really rate him)...AD shows why he should have been a 6 all along...Brooksy matures nicely and leads the team to the finals)

3. An 80% GK. Hopefully AD develops this.

Cover those three areas and we are looking good.

 

[happy_tiger]

The biggest answer to Ellery's point will be season's end ...if we don't come away with a Top 2 player in his position , a Top 5 player in his position and a Top 8 player in his position ...recruitment has failed and Madge needs to come under question as well


Regardless of the performance of the team and position on the table?

Well if we finish Top 8 it actually makes it worse ...we can't attract talent when we do perform ......


Isnt the performance the goal? Id actually prefer to be able to perform without having to sign established "elites", It suggest that is actually the holy grail or the "Melbourne Method". If we perform, our players become stars.

They will need help to get us over the line ...win a premiership

This current squad won't win a premiership

TBF if you look at our 2005 Premiership winning team it was pretty average really. Our spine was solid but the rest of the team was in no way at all flush with stars.

If your saying we are a chance at a premiership in 2021 .....I don't see it ...sorry


Not answering on behalf of Jai, but did you think we were a chance at the title in Feb 2005?

(I'd be happy to scrape into 8th on F/A to answer your question to Jai).

Of course not ...no one did ...I felt confident we would make the 8 after the Brisbane game ...we might have got done ...but we created so many chances and the draw we had even playing the Stains without their SOO players the following match

Winning a premiership ...wasn't until we beat the Stains in the semi ........

But that side had Hodgson ,Marshall ,Prince and Farah ..throw in Payten ,Skando ,Buckets , Galea ......Elford and Whatuira ,Richards

Be honest ....the 2005 side would put 40 on this side

I'll be amazed if the 2021 makes Top 8 ...it will be a bigger shock than the 2005 side if this side wins a premiership ...would be bookies now that would give you a 100-1 if you pushed them with a $500 + bet

Seriously half or the 2005 would be in the hospital by full time.You can't compare these two sides.2005 were a great,this side we don't know but the size of players all over the park has changed sustantially.

Played under 2005 rules they would rip the 2021 side apart ..they'd kill them through the middle ...Farah and Halatau .....ouch

 

[happy_tiger]

The biggest answer to Ellery's point will be season's end ...if we don't come away with a Top 2 player in his position , a Top 5 player in his position and a Top 8 player in his position ...recruitment has failed and Madge needs to come under question as well


Regardless of the performance of the team and position on the table?

Well if we finish Top 8 it actually makes it worse ...we can't attract talent when we do perform ......


Isnt the performance the goal? Id actually prefer to be able to perform without having to sign established "elites", It suggest that is actually the holy grail or the "Melbourne Method". If we perform, our players become stars.

They will need help to get us over the line ...win a premiership

This current squad won't win a premiership

TBF if you look at our 2005 Premiership winning team it was pretty average really. Our spine was solid but the rest of the team was in no way at all flush with stars.

If your saying we are a chance at a premiership in 2021 .....I don't see it ...sorry


Not answering on behalf of Jai, but did you think we were a chance at the title in Feb 2005?

(I'd be happy to scrape into 8th on F/A to answer your question to Jai).

**Of course not ...no one did** ...I felt confident we would make the 8 after the Brisbane game ...we might have got done ...but we created so many chances and the draw we had even playing the Stains without their SOO players the following match

Winning a premiership ...wasn't until we beat the Stains in the semi ........

But that side had Hodgson ,Marshall ,Prince and Farah ..throw in Payten ,Skando ,Buckets , Galea ......Elford and Whatuira ,Richards

Be honest ....the 2005 side would put 40 on this side

I'll be amazed if the 2021 makes Top 8 ...it will be a bigger shock than the 2005 side if this side wins a premiership ...would be bookies now that would give you a 100-1 if you pushed them with a $500 + bet

I did..

Words ...just words ...you say we will be undefeated champions every year ...but you honestly don't believe it

 

[earl]

The biggest answer to Ellery's point will be season's end ...if we don't come away with a Top 2 player in his position , a Top 5 player in his position and a Top 8 player in his position ...recruitment has failed and Madge needs to come under question as well


Regardless of the performance of the team and position on the table?

Well if we finish Top 8 it actually makes it worse ...we can't attract talent when we do perform ......


Isnt the performance the goal? Id actually prefer to be able to perform without having to sign established "elites", It suggest that is actually the holy grail or the "Melbourne Method". If we perform, our players become stars.

The only thing that matters is results. I couldn't care less about marquee signings if they don't improve the team.

 

[twentyforty]

The biggest answer to Ellery's point will be season's end ...if we don't come away with a Top 2 player in his position , a Top 5 player in his position and a Top 8 player in his position ...recruitment has failed and Madge needs to come under question as well


Regardless of the performance of the team and position on the table?

Well if we finish Top 8 it actually makes it worse ...we can't attract talent when we do perform ......


Isnt the performance the goal? Id actually prefer to be able to perform without having to sign established "elites", It suggest that is actually the holy grail or the "Melbourne Method". If we perform, our players become stars.

They will need help to get us over the line ...win a premiership

This current squad won't win a premiership

TBF if you look at our 2005 Premiership winning team it was pretty average really. Our spine was solid but the rest of the team was in no way at all flush with stars.

If your saying we are a chance at a premiership in 2021 .....I don't see it ...sorry


Not answering on behalf of Jai, but did you think we were a chance at the title in Feb 2005?

(I'd be happy to scrape into 8th on F/A to answer your question to Jai).

I didn't think we were a chance to even make the 8 in 2005 after half the season tbh. I certainly don't see us as a legit chance to win it this yr either however my point was it can be done without a crop of elite players.

I agree with your point 100% and your 2005 example is a good one. They played to their individual strengths, had a high work rate teamwork ethic combined with a very strong desire to win.

 

[TonyTiger]

Woke up this morning and saw "Dragon's skipper signs four year deal with new club" and, I must admit, I punched the air a bit with joy...presumed it was us...sat down, made a coffee to enjoy with the 'good news'...

And then realised he has joined, of all teams, Cronulla...

To compound it...to play 13 for them.

There is a fairly established pattern of rep / elite level players "meeting with Madge" a month or two prior, "sitting on" an offer from us...being heavily linked with us as the only suitor...

And then signing elsewhere the moment another team comes in for them...

It deserves discussion. We have been able to land some good youngsters, and been able to land several misfits / last chance type players...

**But we have not been able to land that 24-28 yo in their prime elite level player / NSW Origin level player basically ever since we were formed.**

This one stings a bit as he would have been perfect at 13 for us / has all the traits we need / has a relationship prior with Madge...and, worst of all, Cronulla are a mess with most of their best players about to file for pensions. Yet he still chose them over us.

Why exactly deserves discussion...
LM
JAC
McIness

Fantastic News!!
We didn’t need that dwarf anyway - onward and upward.

 

[earl]

We have done a great job in recruitment over the last few months considering we are a team that has missed the finals for like 10 years, 4 home grounds and players so called wanting out, etc.. Having said that I think the only way we will recruit a SOO quality player in his prime without over paying is to win games and make finals.
I truly believe if we were to make the finals this year and the COE coming we will get them.

Agreed...we have done a really good job, except for the elite blokes.

For reference re this discussion (which, so far, has raised some very good point both ways)... I am not just talking about 'now'.

We have never landed a current Kangaroo ever, for example. Nor a current NSW player.

Only club not to have done so.

That suggests there must be a reason?

Agree mate...
with us focusing on the top youngsters and getting rid of the dead wood we are heading in the right direction though. If we start playing well and players like look like they are enjoying themselves it will help attract them.. Time will tell but i feel some much better about the team now then 4 months ago.

We have got the basis of a good team...

IMO we are short of:
1. A backrower with speed who can motor across the ground / great cover D. Our pack right now is very big...but has a lot of blokes who fatigue and arm grab. McIness would have solved that.

2. The spine is potentially very poor / potentially very good. Only time will tell. (Mbye can't catch high balls / Jacob breaks down / Brooks fails to step up / AD proves to be a jack of all trades, master of none.**.......OR...**.Mbye finds his old form / Jacob finally gets time and proves how good he is (i really rate him)...AD shows why he should have been a 6 all along...Brooksy matures nicely and leads the team to the finals)

3. An 80% GK. Hopefully AD develops this.

Cover those three areas and we are looking good.

We need a lock forward and then pray we get the good version of our spine players. The thing is Blore/Twal/Joe O may fill that role. Melbourne had Nelson playing lock for half the game and he was probably the best lock in the comp. I agree that it looks like having a quicker more skillful lock forward is a really good option today but maybe will be okay in that position.

 

[tigerbalm]

Its gunna be hard to attract any decent player with just coming out of a very dark decade for the club. Add to that the historical baggage, coach merry-go-round, no real home ground and a COE that's another season away...Doesn't really make the club attractive imo.

I think in 4 years, the club will be on its 2nd title shot, one home ground out at ANZ, Madge will have replaced Sheens as WT greatest ever. The COE will be the shinning jewel in Pascoes replacements crown and WT's Captain, Harry Grant will be a player that other players want to come and play with.

You've given it this long, another few years of disappointment wont matter...It builds character.

 

[happy_tiger]

The biggest answer to Ellery's point will be season's end ...if we don't come away with a Top 2 player in his position , a Top 5 player in his position and a Top 8 player in his position ...recruitment has failed and Madge needs to come under question as well


Regardless of the performance of the team and position on the table?

Well if we finish Top 8 it actually makes it worse ...we can't attract talent when we do perform ......


Isnt the performance the goal? Id actually prefer to be able to perform without having to sign established "elites", It suggest that is actually the holy grail or the "Melbourne Method". If we perform, our players become stars.

They will need help to get us over the line ...win a premiership

This current squad won't win a premiership

TBF if you look at our 2005 Premiership winning team it was pretty average really. Our spine was solid but the rest of the team was in no way at all flush with stars.

If your saying we are a chance at a premiership in 2021 .....I don't see it ...sorry


Not answering on behalf of Jai, but did you think we were a chance at the title in Feb 2005?

(I'd be happy to scrape into 8th on F/A to answer your question to Jai).

I didn't think we were a chance to even make the 8 in 2005 after half the season tbh. I certainly don't see us as a legit chance to win it this yr either however my point was it can be done without a crop of elite players.

We always had a great draw after the Saints game ...if we could beat the sides we should beat ..which we did ...but teh Brisbane game we created so many chances and blew them ..we looked good despite the handling issues

 

[Needaname]

Not a repeating pattern.
It’s etched in history.
I found this Gem from Nath Merrit on the Locker room podcast.
“When Souths were kicked out of the comp. Tigers offered me 3x what Souths offered. But I stayed for 2 years at Rabbitohs hoping they would be reinstated into the NRL”
#blokeinabar

 

[Guest]

I'm not disappointed in the slightest that we missed McInnes.

 

[JC99]

Not a repeating pattern.
It’s etched in history.
I found this Gem from Nath Merrit on the Locker room podcast.
“When Souths were kicked out of the comp. Tigers offered me 3x what Souths offered. But I stayed for 2 years at Rabbitohs hoping they would be reinstated into the NRL”
#blokeinabar

I've heard that story too many times.... tigers too happy to throw money at a club and not actually sell the club to the players. Puts a lot of pressure on the players too which some don't like such as Latrell Mitchell

It looks like that has changed now luckily

 

[tigerballs]

We have done a great job in recruitment over the last few months considering we are a team that has missed the finals for like 10 years, 4 home grounds and players so called wanting out, etc.. Having said that I think the only way we will recruit a SOO quality player in his prime without over paying is to win games and make finals.
I truly believe if we were to make the finals this year and the COE coming we will get them.

Agreed...we have done a really good job, except for the elite blokes.

For reference re this discussion (which, so far, has raised some very good point both ways)... I am not just talking about 'now'.

We have never landed a current Kangaroo ever, for example. Nor a current NSW player.

Only club not to have done so.

That suggests there must be a reason?

I could be wrong but Melbourne have never signed a rep player. They may have become rep players not long after signing, but I can't recall them ever signing one.

 

[ElleryHanley]

We have done a great job in recruitment over the last few months considering we are a team that has missed the finals for like 10 years, 4 home grounds and players so called wanting out, etc.. Having said that I think the only way we will recruit a SOO quality player in his prime without over paying is to win games and make finals.
I truly believe if we were to make the finals this year and the COE coming we will get them.

Agreed...we have done a really good job, except for the elite blokes.

For reference re this discussion (which, so far, has raised some very good point both ways)... I am not just talking about 'now'.

We have never landed a current Kangaroo ever, for example. Nor a current NSW player.

Only club not to have done so.

That suggests there must be a reason?

I could be wrong but Melbourne have never signed a rep player. They may have become rep players not long after signing, but I can't recall them ever signing one.

Valid point...but hard to sign one when they have 15 current reps 🙂

They did sign a lot in their initial / building years though. Kimmorley, for example.

 

[jirskyr]

Hi everyone I'm looking for the lament thread where we missed out on Cameron McInnes.

 

[Geo]

I'm looking for the offer to McInnes to miss out on..

 

[Krammy]

I agree with posters here who mentioned the club has been through a really dark decade. Players want to come to clubs that are successful and stabilised. I think the stability has improved over the last couple of years, particularly in relation to finances. On field success this year is critical. I hope I am not overly optimistic, but I really feel a strong year is coming. The players in general seem keen and I think Madge learnt last year that a balance is needed in how you manage your team. This showed in our end of year performances. Hope I'm not wrong.