The two biggest excuses 'debunked'...

[TrueTiger]

I fix clubs for a living. Pubs, rsls, whatever, that are losing money. I make them profitable, or give them indications on how they can improve.
They don't listen to me all the time, even though I have 20+ yrs experience.
90% of the time, the reason they are failing, is the board.


Can you sort this dump out ?

I will send you up a box of matches Hobbo....will that help....:astonished:

 

[Demps]

I fix clubs for a living. Pubs, rsls, whatever, that are losing money. I make them profitable, or give them indications on how they can improve.
They don't listen to me all the time, even though I have 20+ yrs experience.
90% of the time, the reason they are failing, is the board.


Can you sort this dump out ?

We got you boss...


 

[PJ_]

I fix clubs for a living. Pubs, rsls, whatever, that are losing money. I make them profitable, or give them indications on how they can improve.
They don't listen to me all the time, even though I have 20+ yrs experience.
90% of the time, the reason they are failing, is the board.


Can you sort this dump out ?

??
Don't think anyone can haha

 

[hobbo1]

I fix clubs for a living. Pubs, rsls, whatever, that are losing money. I make them profitable, or give them indications on how they can improve.
They don't listen to me all the time, even though I have 20+ yrs experience.
90% of the time, the reason they are failing, is the board.


Can you sort this dump out ?

We got you boss...



 

[Jason83]

Games aren't won on paper

Not for teams playing Wests Tigers. Any team can beat a team that has no heart or passion for the club their play for. This is also the reason we can’t beat any top 6-7 teams in last couple of seasons as we don’t have the heart to play dirty and defend our line with a must win attitude.

This squad is the worse in our sad history (bar 3 seasons). Don’t think our coaching team are the answer but a new coach won’t fix much as our recruitment and management is awful. The whole club is a mess.

 

[yeahcaz]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Moses is the only player on that playing roster last night not signed or resigned by Madge. He’s been here 3 years. It is his roster. Cleary contract excuse is getting old

 

[TrueTiger]

In fairness to the whole club..coaches,admin,players and other staff involved....
COVID has had an almighty impact on the world in general and we have all been told it will be along time before we go back to what was normal...
Our young inexperienced players have had their football cut short so therefore their development has been hindered..coaches have suffered because of lack of fit depth and injury to others...allround the clubs(NRL) have been severely impacted and this can be seen with the comp realistically down to 3/4 very strong candidates and the rest trying to mould a team for 2022...
Im not making excuses for Madge or anyone for that matter,it has been very difficult for us the people who support our families friends and teams...
In the big scheme of things Iam very passionate not just about the WTs but rugby league in general,however this is just a game that we all love,the personell at each club has family and friends affected as well....we are in a state of resurection from this pandemic,especially with a faster vax rollout...when this clears so will many peoples thinking toward the future...
we dont make the 8 or we do,not really that wholehearted this year,other peoples lives that are perplexed and if I can help would rather that then argue about a footy team not up to scratch....

 

[PJ_]

In fairness to the whole club..coaches,admin,players and other staff involved....
COVID has had an almighty impact on the world in general and we have all been told it will be along time before we go back to what was normal...
Our young inexperienced players have had their football cut short so therefore their development has been hindered..coaches have suffered because of lack of fit depth and injury to others...allround the clubs(NRL) have been severely impacted and this can be seen with the comp realistically down to 3/4 very strong candidates and the rest trying to mould a team for 2022...
Im not making excuses for Madge or anyone for that matter,it has been very difficult for us the people who support our families friends and teams...
In the big scheme of things Iam very passionate not just about the WTs but rugby league in general,however this is just a game that we all love,the personell at each club has family and friends affected as well....we are in a state of resurection from this pandemic,especially with a faster vax rollout...when this clears so will many peoples thinking toward the future...
we dont make the 8 or we do,not really that wholehearted this year,other peoples lives that are perplexed and if I can help would rather that then argue about a footy team not up to scratch....

Yeah agree mate.
It has definitely wrecked a lot of things, not just footy.
Our problem has been around a long time before Covid though and while excusable, it doesn't justify the last 10 plus years.
I love the tigers and could not support any other club but things need to change my man.

 

[BAGNF05]

Last night has officially ended the case for the two biggest excuses in Tigertown.

**Excuse One: Luke Brooks would be a different player behind a dominant pack**

Well, last night our pack dominated and Luke came up with the most clueless, uncontrolled, must win game of his career.

Stef 166
Joff 146
Twal 141
The backrowers combined for 200 plus

The platform was laid...and Brooksy failed. Badly. Yet again.

**Excuse number two: Madge does not have the roster he needs.**

Well, people can debate the roster all they like...but they CAN'T debate last night. Last night Madge had, by far, the superior roster. The Warriors were depleted, had lost for two months straight, and conceded 60 recently...and lost their front row...and their best player / captain.

Madge had a vastly better roster last night, but was completely clueless as to how to react when things went wrong / no adjustments yet again / outcoached by a very poor opponent. Once again, in a must win / big game Madge failed to get them to play for 80. He had, by far, the better roster last night. No excuses. None.

We can go back and forth on here and I myself have changed my opinion on Brooksy and Madge multiple times. But the debating is over. Massive must win game...dominant pack...vastly superior roster...

**And they both failed.**

It is over.

Games aren't won on paper..

In the chest cavity. Pea heart club.

 

[BAGNF05]

In fairness to the whole club..coaches,admin,players and other staff involved....
COVID has had an almighty impact on the world in general and we have all been told it will be along time before we go back to what was normal...
Our young inexperienced players have had their football cut short so therefore their development has been hindered..coaches have suffered because of lack of fit depth and injury to others...allround the clubs(NRL) have been severely impacted and this can be seen with the comp realistically down to 3/4 very strong candidates and the rest trying to mould a team for 2022...
Im not making excuses for Madge or anyone for that matter,it has been very difficult for us the people who support our families friends and teams...
In the big scheme of things Iam very passionate not just about the WTs but rugby league in general,however this is just a game that we all love,the personell at each club has family and friends affected as well....we are in a state of resurection from this pandemic,especially with a faster vax rollout...when this clears so will many peoples thinking toward the future...
we dont make the 8 or we do,not really that wholehearted this year,other peoples lives that are perplexed and if I can help would rather that then argue about a footy team not up to scratch....

In fairness to the whole club..coaches,admin,players and other staff involved....
COVID has had an almighty impact on the world in general and we have all been told it will be along time before we go back to what was normal...
Our young inexperienced players have had their football cut short so therefore their development has been hindered..coaches have suffered because of lack of fit depth and injury to others...allround the clubs(NRL) have been severely impacted and this can be seen with the comp realistically down to 3/4 very strong candidates and the rest trying to mould a team for 2022...
Im not making excuses for Madge or anyone for that matter,it has been very difficult for us the people who support our families friends and teams...
In the big scheme of things Iam very passionate not just about the WTs but rugby league in general,however this is just a game that we all love,the personell at each club has family and friends affected as well....we are in a state of resurection from this pandemic,especially with a faster vax rollout...when this clears so will many peoples thinking toward the future...
we dont make the 8 or we do,not really that wholehearted this year,other peoples lives that are perplexed and if I can help would rather that then argue about a footy team not up to scratch....

Shit clubs make excuses, good ones don’t,

 

[balmain boy]

Great idea, let’s use a sample size of one game to make some sweeping conclusions.

We've failed for the last ten years, have failed 18 of the past 21 years.

That's a sample size plenty big enough to make conclusions

 

[izotope]

Can't argue. Goes back to what I've always thought about Brooks

Brooks is a support player (6) and should not be steering a team around the park.

Really disappointing as he had been playing well albeit in a losing team

 

[cktiger]

Don’t know what Maguire can do to coach bonehead decisions out of players.
I think you can forget the hardnose coach that people allude to.
If anything he has been too soft on some players and given them too many chances to redeem themselves.
All you can do is drop them or get rid of them and I sure hope we can get rid of plenty.

If you remember CK,the group whinged about Madges hardline training and revolted against him....so Madge does the right thing and softens his stance on hard work ethics.....
Guess what....we are now seeing the result of being soft on the guys who want to make a career out of rugby league...its showing in the results on the field....

So how do you explain Cleary's much less hard nosed approach and seemingly better performances if not wins?

Look at a Maguire post match presser and it is a disaster. Cleary has a much more laid back approach and the journalists respond.

In one of the pre-game dressing room shots, Maguire is standing gesticulating to his team. Few seem interested. Compare that to Cleary at Penrith where he is sitting in a far less threatening manner and his players are listening.

Hard nosed does not necessarily mean better or smarter.

It may not make them smarter or better....but it would certainly make them tougher opposition .....

Or lackadaisical as we saw last night.

Different players apart from a few perennial losers.

 

[gregjm87]

Hardly debunked. The Warriors team was no worse than what we put out there.

Backline about equal, we probably had a better spine from an attacking perspective, they probably had a better spine from a defensive perspective. We had a better starting pack, they had the stronger bench.
As many point out this is a Warriors side missing so many players, and yet they were able to put out a team of similar ability to what we put out (though we were also missing a few, granted not as many as them). If anything this shows just how poor our roster truly is.

As for Brooks performance. It was not good but it was not the horror show many seem to be making out that it was. When our forwards were dominant he was playing well. Got us to good attacking positions resulting in a 10 point lead. Had other attacking opportunities stifled through no fault of his.
When their bench started taking control of the game our poor defense failed giving them a 2 point lead. Again no fault of Brooks as all the defensive errors came from the other side (or middle) of the field (Brooks cover defense actually may have saved us from conceding an earlier try where he pressured their support play after a line break). Continued defensive errors (again not Brooks) and our beaten bench forwards led to them forcing the line dropout.
Now everyone is highly critical of the decision to kick short. But, the decision itself wasn't terrible. We needed the ball after being on the back foot all (17minutes of) 2nd half up to that point. The execution by Brooks was pretty bad there is no denying that. But, it was made to look so much worse by the chasers. Douehi runs behind Aitken rather than to the ball. Nofoaluma doesn't attack the ball (or Aitken) at all and the rest of the line doesn't push across to help out in any scenario where Warriors gain possession. The play by our outside men was far more daft then the short kick option. The field goal attempt was genuinely stupid. At least he had the excuse of clock pressure, Douehi had no such excuse. So all in all the performance though not an abject failure may not even be a pass mark for Brooks, but whilst the team was dominant he was doing his job. So last night does not debunk the myth that he would be a different player behind a dominant pack.

 

[Nelson]

Great idea, let’s use a sample size of one game to make some sweeping conclusions.

Surely you jest, it wasn't just last nights game, the NRL team as a whole have regressed at an alarming rate the last 2 years, changes need to be made, and made now

The whole premise of the thread is that because of **last night** Brooks is crap even behind a pack that is dominating and Maguire is crap. If people want to draw those conclusions based on the last few years then fine, but every player and every team has bad games, so suddenly deciding that a single game proves anything is pretty stupid.

 

[TillLindemann]

Don’t know what Maguire can do to coach bonehead decisions out of players.
I think you can forget the hardnose coach that people allude to.
If anything he has been too soft on some players and given them too many chances to redeem themselves.
All you can do is drop them or get rid of them and I sure hope we can get rid of plenty.

If you remember CK,the group whinged about Madges hardline training and revolted against him....so Madge does the right thing and softens his stance on hard work ethics.....
Guess what....we are now seeing the result of being soft on the guys who want to make a career out of rugby league...its showing in the results on the field....

So how do you explain Cleary's much less hard nosed approach and seemingly better performances if not wins?

Look at a Maguire post match presser and it is a disaster. Cleary has a much more laid back approach and the journalists respond.

In one of the pre-game dressing room shots, Maguire is standing gesticulating to his team. Few seem interested. Compare that to Cleary at Penrith where he is sitting in a far less threatening manner and his players are listening.

Hard nosed does not necessarily mean better or smarter.

Cleary inherited one of the best squads in the NRL, a bunch of seriously talented kids that mostly came through together. You can't judge him as a coach on that - anyone would do well with that squad, and it's largely not a squad assembled by him.
He couldn't make the 8 here, and he's never won a grand final anywhere.

 

[jirskyr]

You reckon we had a better team on paper? I sure didn’t. Forwards are even, their bench was far superior, backs were pretty even too.

I think Tigers have the more settled line-up if not for Laurie going down so early. As said earlier, if Walsh goes down instead, makes for a totally different outcome for Warriors.

I think part of the problem is we are still fielding a lot of very inexperienced players. So many folks clamouring for Tamou to get dropped, Nofo too, on past performances, but you aren't going to get consistent footy when the bench is full of novices - Tuki 2 matches experience, Kelma debut, Amone 13 matches, MCK career benchie 87 appearances. Starting Blore and Stefano also about 30 matches total between them. Talau still a kid.

Warriors actually had us slightly covered for total experience (1198 vs 1178) and that's inclusive of a few under-performing long-timers for us - Nofo, Mbye.

That's not to say kids can't play well, but we have a number of ~100 match players and then a bunch with less than 20, and hardly any in-betweens.

 

[Crucible]

As the Great Roy Orbison Said "Its OOOver, Its OOOOver, Its OOOOOver. Im out of here till March next year. Good Night from him and Good Night from me. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

 

[Merlot]

we,the WesTigers r useless getting up on big medium occasions,it was a marriage made from a history of,mediocrity,if not parra ,the gos was parra would swollow penrith as well,it was the only way we saved our identity,and we fkn need 2 fight4 it

 

[851]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Moses is the only player on that playing roster last night not signed or resigned by Madge. He’s been here 3 years. It is his roster. Cleary contract excuse is getting old

Correct, the Cleary excuse is old and laughable, Madge is out of excuses, and should be out of a job as well. He can't attract good players, and can't coach the ones he does attract