This merger and all it's stupid issues

[Aubanon]

The sooner WT’s stands alone as its own entity the better.

This antiquated structure of football clubs being funded by little ole ladies putting their pension money into the pokies needs to be addressed – the sooner the better.

I too originally came over from one side of the merger – however I now only related to the Weststigers. Furthermore there is a whole generation of fans who don’t have an allegiance either way.

Let their be a formal structure with WSM & BT as far as a pathway for juniors – but the long-term strategy for the WT’s should be one base (Home Ground Included) & one independent club.

Pipe dream perhaps…........

 

[TIGERS]

ITS A FANTASTIC TEAM TO SUPPORT.

So much history, so much adversity… and still finding success along the way. We can still stand on the Hill at 2040 and I can still sit at the same spot I always did at Ctown when I watched the magpies as a kid. Things have changed but not much.

We're gonna bicker... like all step-brothers. Some ppl are morons. Wests Tigers are what they are just enjoy it and be thankful for what you have. Its better than the Western Suburbs Bulldogs or the Parramatta Tigers.

The 1989 Grand Final was on the telly not long ago and I realised that I have now become a Balmain Fan as well as being an old Wests fan. Sirro, Elias, Pearce, Roach are now my adoptive football family so to speak

There's nowt wrong with that. I'll treasure 2005 for my whole bloody life. You'll never EVER experience anything as poetic as that victory ever again.

 

[innsaneink]

I think for financial reason we couldn't play primarily out of either ground. I say those grounds should be used for grudge matches like Manly, South, Dogs, Parra, Dragons and Canberra.

You can then kiss the $$$ we get for playing at Allianz goodbye

 

[LeichhardtTiger]

Macdougall this has been a bloody good and bloody long thread! Good on you! People tend to forget the reality of those heady days when the JV was being touted. On the night of the Vote I spoke to John Chalk Chairman of the Tigers at the time. He reminded us that Parra had been the predatory JV partners before the Wests move. He said they went to Parra Leagues and were made to wait for some time outside the boardroom. When they were shown into the boardroom they were shocked to learn that Parra were not interested in keeping any Tigers players or staff. Fitzgerald made it clear when he produced some Baseball caps with the Parra Tigers logo - they just wanted the Tiger Brand - a better marketing tool than a slimy Eel anyday!

And that was the reality folks back then. If the West of Sydney really supported it's local NRL team we wouldn't be having this discussion. But at the time in 1999 the Junior Rugby League out Campbelltown way was struggling. Not the fault of the supporters but more the fault of the mismangement of those charged with running the junior comps. It was the butt of jokes on Prime time Radio - Hadley especially. So a merger or JV as it became known, was deemed a necessary evil, so that each Foundation club would survive the predatory grasps of the Bulldogs and Parra.

To today: suddenly the pokies rich Wests Campbo and Ashfield clubs aren't crying poor over the ALP Pokie tax. They're cashed up and raring to go. Duh! Meanwhile the Tigers are in redevelopment phase so of bloody course they haven't got the cashflow of the other two joints!

Back to Football - Folks I reckon the consolidation of our teams into one group is the absolute right thing to do.

The next thing is for the NRL to get it's Expensive new CEO suit off his shiny backside to make sure that every team plays three games as we did in the good old days of League - Start with the U/20's then followed by the NSW Cup (or call it the Rex Mossop Shield!) and then the Main Game. Each Grade gets to perform in front of home fans. Players from early games can be promoted up into the next grade if an late injury emerges. Yes the added travel costs might e a challenge but hey I'm sure you'd get a group discount! At least FOX are showing NSW Cup games live now. But to really enjoy a club's entire product mix it is important to see the entire club at play at the home ground on the day. So maybe that's the key. That way the Marketing effort isn't stretched thin to try and attract fans to the NSW cup on a Saturday game when the Main team and 20's are playing elsewhere on Sunday!

Our team is the Weststigers.

Our colours are Black and White and Orange (not Gold) Our Logo is a Tiger (Parra was right) Our heritage is acknowledged by the Magpie (SMFC is printed on the neckline at the back of every Swans guernsey)

Our Heritage is shared - we are 33% of the 3 remaining Foundation Clubs (Easts & Souths) and we have a Special Pre Season Game to commemorate this (if only we were more competitive!

Therefore we have a brand equity in this competition.

i.e. we have over 100 years of contributing to the success and profits of Rugby League in this Nation.

We have produced the Legends of Rugby League - I'm not gonna name them cos I'll accidentally leave someone out and y'know what'll happen! Ok here's 1 Arthur (Summons or Beetson!?)

Anyway a great thread Mac and let's hope the Team we support continues to improve and folks just appreciate that if we didn't get into this JV we would be watching soccer!

 

[Shooshmeister]

Well said Leichhardttiger, :master: :master: :master: :master:

Its like most things in life, its those things like Money and possesions that cause most of the fighting. I know the wife and I only fight over these, otherwise we have a good life. So if the Wests Tigers could get these sorted out, Woow, how good would that be. What the saying,

" HAPPY WIFE…..HAPPY LIFE!

Happy club, happy members and supporters and a more succesful team. WESTS TIGERS are my TEAM!!

 

[Abraham]

I honestly believe all games should be played out of Campbelltown. Im sure the crowds will grow but do they make enough even from a full gate out there?

Here's a hypothetical.. Say it was made known that LO was to hold its final match ever at the end of 2014 would ex Balmain fans be happy with all games at CSS? Or would they prefer a split between SFS,ANZ & CSS?

Hi Shane, I like the cut of your jib. Your an ideas man, someone who thinks outside the box, and we need more blokes like you around the joint.

So taking a page out of your playbook, and with the JV's long term interests similarly at heart, what do you think of my own 'out of the box' proposal.

I say lets all give Campbelltown the two fingered salute and tell 'em to get stuffed. The mighty Maggies were there for years and couldn't pull a crowd so save themselves, even with Tommy and his megaphone leaving a trail of Winfield smoke and VB cans down Queen Street.

I remember there being some conjecture in 1999 amongst the crowd counting fraternity about whether the two headed supporters out that way should have been counted as one or two in the official figures. Jim Marsden pushed for the latter.

That being said, its bleeding obvious the Macarthur doesn't gives a rat's testicle about Wests, and hasn't warmed to them for decades, so why should Wests give a rat's testicle about the Macarthur anymore?

Of course we can still pillage the area of its juniors, and send a few Holden Cup reserve players to hand out membership forms outside Minto Mall on their days off. Maybe even stick a cardboard cutout of Mick Potter outside the ground on Bundy Cup arvos. You know, so the area still feels a connection to us.

Other than that we will play all our home games at Leichhardt Oval, providing no one smokes on the hill or buries the non-smokers with half-full cans of beer. Bloody hooligans.

After all, the inner west is where the supporter base seems to be, its close to the big end of town, and that's where our golden goose Wests Ashfield is. Its also closer to where I live, which the club has to also consider.

What do you think Shane, can I get an 'Amen' in the name of JV unity and all that??

(Yeah I know I took the bait, but its fun taking a nibble every now and again)

 

[supercoach]

What we need on this forum is some good old fashion iron block censorship.Bugger off freedom of speech, and not give people a soap box to stand on every time they feel that their side of the JV has been badly done by. The topic comes up every month, Iam sick to death of it. The world is about change and if you cant accept change, jump off

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

And that was the reality folks back then. If the West of Sydney really supported it's local NRL team we wouldn't be having this discussion. But at the time in 1999 the Junior Rugby League out Campbelltown way was struggling. Not the fault of the supporters but more the fault of the mismangement of those charged with running the junior comps.

Really good post, but not sure about this section. It is no secret that Wests Ashfield were not the biggest fans of the move to Campbelltown in the late 80's, but it had to be done and it led to the development to Wests Campbelltown (they initially ran under the Ashfield umbrella sharing board members). Tough decision, but paying dividends now.

It took some time for the club to move away from its inner west heritage and become embraced by the Macarthur area. There was a spike in crowds in 1991 & 1992 (The Wok years), but overall, it was a slow process of developing an affiliation between Wests and Macarthur. It could be argued that by 1996 and 1997, real inroads were being made with the local juniors beginning to move into the first grade team. However 1998 and 1999 were the disasters they were primarily due to Super League. I am sure there was some mismanagement as you have stated, but a fledgling club in a new market was no chance against the Super League storm.

Regardless, the area really embraced the merger. The average crowd for Campbelltown in 2000 was 13700 (Leichhardt was 10500). 13700 remained the highest average between both grounds till the fantastic 2005 season.

The question is has the policy of reduced games at Campbelltown reduced the engagement in the area? 2012 was a significant drop off in averages (13663 from 15973 in 2011) and 2013 has not started off well. The numbers don't lie and if there is a lack of engagement with the area, it is not the supporters fault, it is the management of our club. I believe we need to go back to 6 & 6 and if we have to take some losses so be it. The SFS arrangement just sees us treading water and not growing our brand in a growth market.

 

[tigerbalm]

Macdougall this has been a bloody good and bloody long thread! Good on you! People tend to forget the reality of those heady days when the JV was being touted. On the night of the Vote I spoke to John Chalk Chairman of the Tigers at the time. He reminded us that Parra had been the predatory JV partners before the Wests move. He said they went to Parra Leagues and were made to wait for some time outside the boardroom. When they were shown into the boardroom they were shocked to learn that Parra were not interested in keeping any Tigers players or staff. Fitzgerald made it clear when he produced some Baseball caps with the Parra Tigers logo - they just wanted the Tiger Brand - a better marketing tool than a slimy Eel anyday!

And that was the reality folks back then. If the West of Sydney really supported it's local NRL team we wouldn't be having this discussion. But at the time in 1999 the Junior Rugby League out Campbelltown way was struggling. Not the fault of the supporters but more the fault of the mismangement of those charged with running the junior comps. It was the butt of jokes on Prime time Radio - Hadley especially. So a merger or JV as it became known, was deemed a necessary evil, so that each Foundation club would survive the predatory grasps of the Bulldogs and Parra.

To today: suddenly the pokies rich Wests Campbo and Ashfield clubs aren't crying poor over the ALP Pokie tax. They're cashed up and raring to go. Duh! Meanwhile the Tigers are in redevelopment phase so of bloody course they haven't got the cashflow of the other two joints!

Back to Football - Folks I reckon the consolidation of our teams into one group is the absolute right thing to do.

The next thing is for the NRL to get it's Expensive new CEO suit off his shiny backside to make sure that every team plays three games as we did in the good old days of League - Start with the U/20's then followed by the NSW Cup (or call it the Rex Mossop Shield!) and then the Main Game. Each Grade gets to perform in front of home fans. Players from early games can be promoted up into the next grade if an late injury emerges. Yes the added travel costs might e a challenge but hey I'm sure you'd get a group discount! At least FOX are showing NSW Cup games live now. But to really enjoy a club's entire product mix it is important to see the entire club at play at the home ground on the day. So maybe that's the key. That way the Marketing effort isn't stretched thin to try and attract fans to the NSW cup on a Saturday game when the Main team and 20's are playing elsewhere on Sunday!

Our team is the Weststigers.

Our colours are Black and White and Orange (not Gold) Our Logo is a Tiger (Parra was right) Our heritage is acknowledged by the Magpie (SMFC is printed on the neckline at the back of every Swans guernsey)

Our Heritage is shared - we are 33% of the 3 remaining Foundation Clubs (Easts & Souths) and we have a Special Pre Season Game to commemorate this (if only we were more competitive!

Therefore we have a brand equity in this competition.

i.e. we have over 100 years of contributing to the success and profits of Rugby League in this Nation.

We have produced the Legends of Rugby League - I'm not gonna name them cos I'll accidentally leave someone out and y'know what'll happen! Ok here's 1 Arthur (Summons or Beetson!?)

Anyway a great thread Mac and let's hope the Team we support continues to improve and folks just appreciate that if we didn't get into this JV we would be watching soccer!

Great post, I often feel a little frustrated with the way some balmain fans are quite arrogant towards the black and white side of the JV but your post made me all warm inside.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Juro]

The question is has the policy of reduced games at Campbelltown reduced the engagement in the area? 2012 was a significant drop off in averages (13663 from 15973 in 2011) and 2013 has not started off well. The numbers don't lie and if there is a lack of engagement with the area, it is not the supporters fault, it is the management of our club. I believe we need to go back to 6 & 6 and if we have to take some losses so be it. The SFS arrangement just sees us treading water and not growing our brand in a growth market.

It really is a tough decision, isn't it. Wests Magpies was a bit of a funny club in that the west kept shifting further and further west, from Pratten Park to Lidcombe to Campbelltown. Easts, Souths and Norths always remained largely where they were. Other clubs were all linked to a specific suburb or region. So Wests sort of kept having to win over new regions.

But trying to win over a region when you only play there 4 games a year is very tough going. Leichhardt doesn't have this problem because it has been associated with the Tigers for so long. Likewise, fans in the inner suburbs find it easier to get to the SFS.

Would it be better to have a 6/3/3 split with Campbelltown getting half the games? Would that be enough to cement our support in the Macarthur region? It would take a real leap of faith, but if it worked it would be massive boost for the Wests Tigers.

 

[simonthetiger]

Interesting read the last few posts.

Got me thinking.

I would love to see the 6/6 split.Wouldnt it be fantastic.Back when this all started,it didnt seem like 2months before you actually got a home game,and the Cambo crowds were very good.I remember the Brissy game that we drew and the ccrowd was big and buzzing.

It would be tricky cash wise if the spirituals werent producing big crowds,but i wonder how important crowds are going to be once the money from the TV deal kicks in??

Maybe it would really kick membership and crowds along with the 6/6.Id def be more keen to sign up with the 6/6.

 

[wtfl1981]

This validates my post of WT having an identity crisis.. Things like this validate the perception that WT is just an extension of Balmain..


The Media and WT MUST ensure this sort of stuff never happens. Its 2013 and i am always told here that its time to move on, and that Balmain & Magpies are dead. The media dont seem to think that!

 

[simonthetiger]

What was that posted in???

 

[wtfl1981]

Sydney Morning Herald

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[simonthetiger]

Wow,what a clanger.

 

[Abraham]

This validates my post of WT having an identity crisis.. Things like this validate the perception that WT is just an extension of Balmain..


The Media and WT MUST ensure this sort of stuff never happens. Its 2013 and i am always told here that its time to move on, and that Balmain & Magpies are dead. The media dont seem to think that!

While its a pretty bad mistake for SMH to make, I don't think it's something that the club can do anything about. We have been the Wests Tigers for 14 seasons now, and the media ( ray warren, SMH etc ) should know better.

Maybe the club can send off a sternly worded email or something, but its really out of their hands.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[wtfl1981]

Yes the club cant always control it.. Why is that WT are only accidentally called Balmain and never accidentally called Magpies or Western Suburbs?

A.Ignorance by media and the perception to most (non WT fans) that WT is a just a re-badged Balmain.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[simonthetiger]

Ive heard them both called the Magpies and Western Suburbs.

Granted far less than Balmain,but its happened nontheless.

If this is the biggest issue then, you dont have too much to worry about.

 

[magpiecol]

We should pack up and move to the Central Coast. Great ground. Great Leagues Club. Great Fans (they really love the Weststigers).

Not far for us City folk to travel for a game. Win Win.

 

[Yossarian]

We should pack up and move to the Central Coast. Great ground. Great Leagues Club. Great Fans (they really love the Weststigers).

Not far for us City folk to travel for a game. Win Win.

Works for me!!