Tigers board to undertake post-season review

[Geo]

Is it possible to sack board members who has the power?

The board members themselves.

What could possibly go wrong.

I don’t trust any insider who call’s themselves Pascoe barber

 

[cochise]

Is it possible to sack board members who has the power?

The board members themselves.

What could possibly go wrong.

I don’t trust any insider who call’s themselves Pascoe barber

Neither should Pascoe

 

[BAGNF05]

Is it possible to sack board members who has the power?

I believe a board member can be sacked the day Noffa doesn’t leave his wing and Twal scores a hat trick

 

[Needaname]

@brycegibbs


Bryce should be our PR man..he would put them all in their place.

When has Bryce scheduled his swim in?

 

[Needaname]

We finished
2019 - 9th
2020 - 11th
2021 - 13th
If there isn’t change soon 15th or the wooden spoon is waiting for us

It is that bad.
Broncos, Bulldogs, Warriors and Cowboys will be better next year based on recruitment and injured stars back, heck the Warriors will hopefully play at home for the 1st time in 2yrs & have their full squad available week to week.

We are a disaster.


Broncos, Bulldogs and Cowboys share a common problem with WT. All poorly run organisations urgently trying to solve problems created by bad choices.
WT started turning things around before them, so I can’t see us not being ahead of that game. It may not look like it after the Hiding we got from the Bulldogs.
Our future success is more dependent on the choices of our decision makers, whom ever they may be?
A typical organisation develops a proven formula for success, establishes systems and procedures to compliment and drive toward goals of various time horizons. Has motivated people, who are fully aware of their duties and responsibilities, the value of the part they play while being dedicated to achieving the organisation’s goals.
I’m totally convinced we are using a different approach where decisions are not born from collaboration and made by the person responsible, but come about as a result of infighting. The TPJ fiasco was a classic example.
As Lauren previously eluded to, their collective problem solving skills are not inspiring any confidence. One possible reason for this is could be the focus on who is wrong, not what is wrong? Playing the man, not the ball?

Issue I have is the Broncos & Bulldogs are now infront of us.

Our strategy of being a junior haven has merit but no junior with huge talent will stay if they have no support. We are also buying a bunch of kids to jump into Reggies or NRL. The pact of growing up together and coming through the grades together doesn’t exist as such wanting to stick together means little when a club who is competitive & with a fellow support cast comes knocking.

Broncos/Bulldogs and Cowboys have bought NRL starting players, we have bought 2 players from ESL. Both will struggle with the speed & size of the NRL. They also will miss the start of preseason (ESL has 2 more rounds + finals, then they have to get into the country - which has taken Sheens 5mths now to get here, hotel isolation for 2 weeks & then find place to live etc). Add to this AD & Talau injured missing all off season & big chunk of the season. We are in a very ugly state.

Normally when you create a strategy you also develop a gliepath which has milestones/success indicators and which then also have plan a/b/c on who/how/what has to happen to get there. You have fortnightly & monthly checkpoints on progression which then leads to cause correction.

Broncos, Bulldogs, Sharks, Warriors have done this well.

We have stuffed it up in a major way to the point established players just don’t want to come here.

Madge said players do want to come, we have a massive amount of cash to spend and yet zero, not 1 NRL top 17 player from the last 3yrs has signed with us for next year. We don’t even have a player who is in the top 30 squads joining us.

Our Reggies offer little in the step up as well.

Last year we had Stefano & Laurie to look forward to seeing this year. Madge talks about bringing kids in but our recruitment on top line kids has also dried up. We don’t even have a kid to look forward to seeing.

It’s like our talent scouts are just focusing on kids to play Flegg or under and hope in 5-6yrs that some (only 9% of Flegg kids make it in NRL) jump up.

Our strategy on youth is great in theory but our operationalization of our strategy is terrible.

Our strategy to never pay overs is great once you have a team people want to join, but again our operationalization of the strategy is terrible

Our coach and coaching staff our trying to enforce structures on players who either can’t play that way or just don’t have the skill. Not once does Madge and the coaching staff coach the team based off the skills/capabilities of the players or have ability to cause correct but hey we train the best ever every week - what more can you train for?

Pascoe has alot of flaws but his business acumen in implementing the financial strategy has been executed brilliantly well considering how bad we are going but he is still able to get money in the kitty.

The reality is though we have no one at the club currently who knows how to implement a football on the park strategy. Sheens role wasn’t actually to do this - his role was on pathways. I’m glad he is now involved based on reviews. I honestly think we need someone like a Bennet with a younger coach under his wing to really drive a change needed, he knows how to transform things and knows how to operationalize a strategy and he knows how to man manage.

Madge has passion, can never deny that. He lives/breathes the game. In his head he knows what is needed to win - his support cast is crap & the way he coaches our team just won’t attrack anyone to the club anytime soon. It’s clear he is lost for ideas and doesn’t know how to cause correct & the playing squad have lost faith.

We can do a cleanout but issue is no one wants to come, if we clean out we have to pay players to play at other clubs and then play for new players undoing all the great work to have a war chest.

Right now we are lost, we have no clear path forward & no end in sight as to when we will see some positives.

The really big positive in all of this is that we've paid the price of getting the cap back into balance, to the point that, the best players on the park will have the higher contract payments, barring injuries of course. This short term pain of having inexperienced players lose games has been well and truly worth it, its given us cap space to go to market, and game time for those players to audition.
I personally think that our coaching staff got the most out of this team of youngsters in 2021, particularly when compared with Bulldags, who had a similar roster.
However, it was a little disappointing that our senior players didn't bite down on the guard and consistently show some more leadership.
What I'd really like to know is, now that we're over the hump. what plans are in place to ensure we dont make the same mistakes? I know Lee said he wouldnt be drawn into commenting or speculating on the future of Madge, and that his and Pascoe's jobs are on the line as well as all board members'.
But are they really???

Interesting that we call our youth in the side as an excuse - will break this down just to show this data:

68 players who are 20yrs or under - we had 3

Of the 52 that are 21 - we had 6 (most in NRL)

Of the 56 that are 22 - we had 3

So for those 22 and under we had 11 out of 176 eligible. Roosters, Manly, Dragons, Titans & Broncos had equal or more than us. Eels & Panthers had 10 each. Rest of the NRL say below that.

Of our 11, 4 are starting roles (Blore, Talau, Stefano, Laurie) which has us with Titans & Eels, and most of the top 8 are at 3. Some of the other clubs have had younger starting numbers during the year but I was using 4 or more games starting to remove SOO.

Great job. Can you do the same review on our senior players?
Maybe use game experience instead of age as the measure.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

We finished
2019 - 9th
2020 - 11th
2021 - 13th
If there isn’t change soon 15th or the wooden spoon is waiting for us

It is that bad.
Broncos, Bulldogs, Warriors and Cowboys will be better next year based on recruitment and injured stars back, heck the Warriors will hopefully play at home for the 1st time in 2yrs & have their full squad available week to week.

We are a disaster.


Broncos, Bulldogs and Cowboys share a common problem with WT. All poorly run organisations urgently trying to solve problems created by bad choices.
WT started turning things around before them, so I can’t see us not being ahead of that game. It may not look like it after the Hiding we got from the Bulldogs.
Our future success is more dependent on the choices of our decision makers, whom ever they may be?
A typical organisation develops a proven formula for success, establishes systems and procedures to compliment and drive toward goals of various time horizons. Has motivated people, who are fully aware of their duties and responsibilities, the value of the part they play while being dedicated to achieving the organisation’s goals.
I’m totally convinced we are using a different approach where decisions are not born from collaboration and made by the person responsible, but come about as a result of infighting. The TPJ fiasco was a classic example.
As Lauren previously eluded to, their collective problem solving skills are not inspiring any confidence. One possible reason for this is could be the focus on who is wrong, not what is wrong? Playing the man, not the ball?

Issue I have is the Broncos & Bulldogs are now infront of us.

Our strategy of being a junior haven has merit but no junior with huge talent will stay if they have no support. We are also buying a bunch of kids to jump into Reggies or NRL. The pact of growing up together and coming through the grades together doesn’t exist as such wanting to stick together means little when a club who is competitive & with a fellow support cast comes knocking.

Broncos/Bulldogs and Cowboys have bought NRL starting players, we have bought 2 players from ESL. Both will struggle with the speed & size of the NRL. They also will miss the start of preseason (ESL has 2 more rounds + finals, then they have to get into the country - which has taken Sheens 5mths now to get here, hotel isolation for 2 weeks & then find place to live etc). Add to this AD & Talau injured missing all off season & big chunk of the season. We are in a very ugly state.

Normally when you create a strategy you also develop a gliepath which has milestones/success indicators and which then also have plan a/b/c on who/how/what has to happen to get there. You have fortnightly & monthly checkpoints on progression which then leads to cause correction.

Broncos, Bulldogs, Sharks, Warriors have done this well.

We have stuffed it up in a major way to the point established players just don’t want to come here.

Madge said players do want to come, we have a massive amount of cash to spend and yet zero, not 1 NRL top 17 player from the last 3yrs has signed with us for next year. We don’t even have a player who is in the top 30 squads joining us.

Our Reggies offer little in the step up as well.

Last year we had Stefano & Laurie to look forward to seeing this year. Madge talks about bringing kids in but our recruitment on top line kids has also dried up. We don’t even have a kid to look forward to seeing.

It’s like our talent scouts are just focusing on kids to play Flegg or under and hope in 5-6yrs that some (only 9% of Flegg kids make it in NRL) jump up.

Our strategy on youth is great in theory but our operationalization of our strategy is terrible.

Our strategy to never pay overs is great once you have a team people want to join, but again our operationalization of the strategy is terrible

Our coach and coaching staff our trying to enforce structures on players who either can’t play that way or just don’t have the skill. Not once does Madge and the coaching staff coach the team based off the skills/capabilities of the players or have ability to cause correct but hey we train the best ever every week - what more can you train for?

Pascoe has alot of flaws but his business acumen in implementing the financial strategy has been executed brilliantly well considering how bad we are going but he is still able to get money in the kitty.

The reality is though we have no one at the club currently who knows how to implement a football on the park strategy. Sheens role wasn’t actually to do this - his role was on pathways. I’m glad he is now involved based on reviews. I honestly think we need someone like a Bennet with a younger coach under his wing to really drive a change needed, he knows how to transform things and knows how to operationalize a strategy and he knows how to man manage.

Madge has passion, can never deny that. He lives/breathes the game. In his head he knows what is needed to win - his support cast is crap & the way he coaches our team just won’t attrack anyone to the club anytime soon. It’s clear he is lost for ideas and doesn’t know how to cause correct & the playing squad have lost faith.

We can do a cleanout but issue is no one wants to come, if we clean out we have to pay players to play at other clubs and then play for new players undoing all the great work to have a war chest.

Right now we are lost, we have no clear path forward & no end in sight as to when we will see some positives.

The really big positive in all of this is that we've paid the price of getting the cap back into balance, to the point that, the best players on the park will have the higher contract payments, barring injuries of course. This short term pain of having inexperienced players lose games has been well and truly worth it, its given us cap space to go to market, and game time for those players to audition.
I personally think that our coaching staff got the most out of this team of youngsters in 2021, particularly when compared with Bulldags, who had a similar roster.
However, it was a little disappointing that our senior players didn't bite down on the guard and consistently show some more leadership.
What I'd really like to know is, now that we're over the hump. what plans are in place to ensure we dont make the same mistakes? I know Lee said he wouldnt be drawn into commenting or speculating on the future of Madge, and that his and Pascoe's jobs are on the line as well as all board members'.
But are they really???

Interesting that we call our youth in the side as an excuse - will break this down just to show this data:

68 players who are 20yrs or under - we had 3

Of the 52 that are 21 - we had 6 (most in NRL)

Of the 56 that are 22 - we had 3

So for those 22 and under we had 11 out of 176 eligible. Roosters, Manly, Dragons, Titans & Broncos had equal or more than us. Eels & Panthers had 10 each. Rest of the NRL say below that.

Of our 11, 4 are starting roles (Blore, Talau, Stefano, Laurie) which has us with Titans & Eels, and most of the top 8 are at 3. Some of the other clubs have had younger starting numbers during the year but I was using 4 or more games starting to remove SOO.

Great job. Can you do the same review on our senior players?
Maybe use game experience instead of age as the measure.

Before the season started our squad ranked 11th on game experience with 1802.

Teams below us on game experience was
12 - Broncos 1788
13 - Titans 1783
14 - Storm 1755
15 - Bulldogs 1493
16 - Panthers 1230

Roosters, Souths & Raiders had the most. In saying that the Roosters included a few players who retired mid season or didn’t play a game - take them out and there numbers fall below ours.

 

[Needaname]

***Roach hinted*** that the problems are just not the coach,and i would like to know if it's the whole management. Seriously, we have gone backwards since our premiership shock win. Losing key players Teddy, Moses, and Woods was massive, but we show no sign of an upward trend.
Does Managment overule Hartigan and or the coach owing to being gun shy after previous bad signings?
Why does a club with close to 2 mil dollars,miss out on TPJ, Burton, Critchton and at least 5 other players, to sides who finished behind us last year? Who signed the crap second raters and reject Souths players? The whole club needs a cleanout, but who sacks the commitee ?

You lost me at "Roach hinted". If you are basing an argument or question on what Steve Roach "thinks", it has limited merit.

Knows footy 100 times more than the pretenders making decisions at WT. Lee says we have a good roster ??‍♂️

He’s a buffoon

His actually a very talented commentator analyst. Well respected by those that I believe have high football Iq.

 

[cochise]

Is it possible to sack board members who has the power?

I believe a board member can be sacked the day Noffa doesn’t leave his wing and Twal scores a hat trick

I think the mechanism for sacking a board member is Nofa has the power to remove a board member. He got it put into his last contract.

 

[Tiger5150]

We finished
2019 - 9th
2020 - 11th
2021 - 13th
If there isn’t change soon 15th or the wooden spoon is waiting for us

It is that bad.
Broncos, Bulldogs, Warriors and Cowboys will be better next year based on recruitment and injured stars back, heck the Warriors will hopefully play at home for the 1st time in 2yrs & have their full squad available week to week.

We are a disaster.


Broncos, Bulldogs and Cowboys share a common problem with WT. All poorly run organisations urgently trying to solve problems created by bad choices.
WT started turning things around before them, so I can’t see us not being ahead of that game. It may not look like it after the Hiding we got from the Bulldogs.
Our future success is more dependent on the choices of our decision makers, whom ever they may be?
A typical organisation develops a proven formula for success, establishes systems and procedures to compliment and drive toward goals of various time horizons. Has motivated people, who are fully aware of their duties and responsibilities, the value of the part they play while being dedicated to achieving the organisation’s goals.
I’m totally convinced we are using a different approach where decisions are not born from collaboration and made by the person responsible, but come about as a result of infighting. The TPJ fiasco was a classic example.
As Lauren previously eluded to, their collective problem solving skills are not inspiring any confidence. One possible reason for this is could be the focus on who is wrong, not what is wrong? Playing the man, not the ball?

Issue I have is the Broncos & Bulldogs are now infront of us.

Our strategy of being a junior haven has merit but no junior with huge talent will stay if they have no support. We are also buying a bunch of kids to jump into Reggies or NRL. The pact of growing up together and coming through the grades together doesn’t exist as such wanting to stick together means little when a club who is competitive & with a fellow support cast comes knocking.

Broncos/Bulldogs and Cowboys have bought NRL starting players, we have bought 2 players from ESL. Both will struggle with the speed & size of the NRL. They also will miss the start of preseason (ESL has 2 more rounds + finals, then they have to get into the country - which has taken Sheens 5mths now to get here, hotel isolation for 2 weeks & then find place to live etc). Add to this AD & Talau injured missing all off season & big chunk of the season. We are in a very ugly state.

Normally when you create a strategy you also develop a gliepath which has milestones/success indicators and which then also have plan a/b/c on who/how/what has to happen to get there. You have fortnightly & monthly checkpoints on progression which then leads to cause correction.

Broncos, Bulldogs, Sharks, Warriors have done this well.

We have stuffed it up in a major way to the point established players just don’t want to come here.

Madge said players do want to come, we have a massive amount of cash to spend and yet zero, not 1 NRL top 17 player from the last 3yrs has signed with us for next year. We don’t even have a player who is in the top 30 squads joining us.

Our Reggies offer little in the step up as well.

Last year we had Stefano & Laurie to look forward to seeing this year. Madge talks about bringing kids in but our recruitment on top line kids has also dried up. We don’t even have a kid to look forward to seeing.

It’s like our talent scouts are just focusing on kids to play Flegg or under and hope in 5-6yrs that some (only 9% of Flegg kids make it in NRL) jump up.

Our strategy on youth is great in theory but our operationalization of our strategy is terrible.

Our strategy to never pay overs is great once you have a team people want to join, but again our operationalization of the strategy is terrible

Our coach and coaching staff our trying to enforce structures on players who either can’t play that way or just don’t have the skill. Not once does Madge and the coaching staff coach the team based off the skills/capabilities of the players or have ability to cause correct but hey we train the best ever every week - what more can you train for?

Pascoe has alot of flaws but his business acumen in implementing the financial strategy has been executed brilliantly well considering how bad we are going but he is still able to get money in the kitty.

The reality is though we have no one at the club currently who knows how to implement a football on the park strategy. Sheens role wasn’t actually to do this - his role was on pathways. I’m glad he is now involved based on reviews. I honestly think we need someone like a Bennet with a younger coach under his wing to really drive a change needed, he knows how to transform things and knows how to operationalize a strategy and he knows how to man manage.

Madge has passion, can never deny that. He lives/breathes the game. In his head he knows what is needed to win - his support cast is crap & the way he coaches our team just won’t attrack anyone to the club anytime soon. It’s clear he is lost for ideas and doesn’t know how to cause correct & the playing squad have lost faith.

We can do a cleanout but issue is no one wants to come, if we clean out we have to pay players to play at other clubs and then play for new players undoing all the great work to have a war chest.

Right now we are lost, we have no clear path forward & no end in sight as to when we will see some positives.

The really big positive in all of this is that we've paid the price of getting the cap back into balance, to the point that, the best players on the park will have the higher contract payments, barring injuries of course. This short term pain of having inexperienced players lose games has been well and truly worth it, its given us cap space to go to market, and game time for those players to audition.
I personally think that our coaching staff got the most out of this team of youngsters in 2021, particularly when compared with Bulldags, who had a similar roster.
However, it was a little disappointing that our senior players didn't bite down on the guard and consistently show some more leadership.
What I'd really like to know is, now that we're over the hump. what plans are in place to ensure we dont make the same mistakes? I know Lee said he wouldnt be drawn into commenting or speculating on the future of Madge, and that his and Pascoe's jobs are on the line as well as all board members'.
But are they really???

Interesting that we call our youth in the side as an excuse - will break this down just to show this data:

68 players who are 20yrs or under - we had 3

Of the 52 that are 21 - we had 6 (most in NRL)

Of the 56 that are 22 - we had 3

So for those 22 and under we had 11 out of 176 eligible. Roosters, Manly, Dragons, Titans & Broncos had equal or more than us. Eels & Panthers had 10 each. Rest of the NRL say below that.

Of our 11, 4 are starting roles (Blore, Talau, Stefano, Laurie) which has us with Titans & Eels, and most of the top 8 are at 3. Some of the other clubs have had younger starting numbers during the year but I was using 4 or more games starting to remove SOO.

Great job. Can you do the same review on our senior players?
Maybe use game experience instead of age as the measure.

Before the season started our squad ranked 11th on game experience with 1802.

Teams below us on game experience was
12 - Broncos 1788
13 - Titans 1783
14 - Storm 1755
15 - Bulldogs 1493
16 - Panthers 1230

Roosters, Souths & Raiders had the most. In saying that ***the Roosters included a few players who retired mid season or didn’t play a game - take them out and there numbers fall below ours.***

Pretty misleading stat.

One third of that 1800 games experience is wrapped up in Packer, JTJ and BJ Leilua.

If you add Tamou (267), Brooks (149) and Nofo (139), that is 1,124 games by our worst 6 players.

That leaves 676 games experience throughout the other 24 squad places, an average of 28 games each.

Youngest team in the NRL and lacking in experience

 

[WswWt]

I hate the crap excuse of “the front office”. The front office don’t coach the players into missing tackles and where they place their 5th tackle kicks.

 

[TIGERPOWER]

I’m actually happy that we’re getting grilled in the media It’s like a bit of an external review
The internal review will bring some change but the so called nrl experts in the media could influence bigger change at the club
2022 might not be a bad year after all 😂

Agree , this basket case of a club needs to blow up in the media to get it sorted. I’m glad the media is targeting

- the heartless playing group
- the coach
- the people running the club

I hope they all go down.

 

[BAGNF05]

I hate the crap excuse of “the front office”. The front office don’t coach the players into missing tackles and where they place their 5th tackle kicks.

Guess Jack Gibson was wrong then. And politis does nothing for Easts. Give us a break

 

[Needaname]

***Roach hinted*** that the problems are just not the coach,and i would like to know if it's the whole management. Seriously, we have gone backwards since our premiership shock win. Losing key players Teddy, Moses, and Woods was massive, but we show no sign of an upward trend.
Does Managment overule Hartigan and or the coach owing to being gun shy after previous bad signings?
Why does a club with close to 2 mil dollars,miss out on TPJ, Burton, Critchton and at least 5 other players, to sides who finished behind us last year? Who signed the crap second raters and reject Souths players? The whole club needs a cleanout, but who sacks the commitee ?

You lost me at "Roach hinted". If you are basing an argument or question on what Steve Roach "thinks", it has limited merit.

Knows footy 100 times more than the pretenders making decisions at WT. Lee says we have a good roster ??‍♂️

Lee is a lawyer, that’s says it all.

I have no gripes with lawyers but him holding up Tommy’s #7 was it for me.

It means he knows little about what makes a good Rugby League roster. Spent all his time going up the Lawyer ranks, which doesn’t leave much time for understanding Rugby League. He’s a fan who gives us money, that’s all.

That is a generalisation. I don't think he knows much about the game but that has very little to do with him being a lawyer.

To get where he is in the lawyers ranks means he wouldn’t have much time for anything else, let alone understanding Rugby League, other than from a fan perspective.

And?

To get to where he is as a business man, would he have time for understanding how a business and organsiation is built and run? Would he have time for understanding how to network and attract business?

Would help if we needed a systems engineer or HR partner. We need a ball tearing second rower.

If only he could appoint someone like say....a CEO to execute the boards policies and then if only the CEO could employ like a football department with a GM of football, a coaching staff, trainers etc. Then Lee wouldnt have to do it all himself.

If only he could appoint an experienced GM of Football in say a GM of Football role not someone that hasn’t spent enough time in said role prior to being appointed?

What is a GM of Footballs role exactly? Is it to focus on solely recruiting young players to grow your roster? Or is it being experienced enough to construct and provide the framework of which the first grade side should be focusing on. Providing leadership to the coaching staff. Reviewing coaching structures etc. Shouldn’t someone experienced in those tasks be doing that? Or are we just going to pay the man to run the bench and work away on recruiting in the background. Or is that a recruitment managers job?
What is Hartigans role and what should it be?

Sounds to me that job he is doing currently is that job we are wishing Sheens will step into with all his experience.

 

[Needaname]

***Roach hinted*** that the problems are just not the coach,and i would like to know if it's the whole management. Seriously, we have gone backwards since our premiership shock win. Losing key players Teddy, Moses, and Woods was massive, but we show no sign of an upward trend.
Does Managment overule Hartigan and or the coach owing to being gun shy after previous bad signings?
Why does a club with close to 2 mil dollars,miss out on TPJ, Burton, Critchton and at least 5 other players, to sides who finished behind us last year? Who signed the crap second raters and reject Souths players? The whole club needs a cleanout, but who sacks the commitee ?

You lost me at "Roach hinted". If you are basing an argument or question on what Steve Roach "thinks", it has limited merit.

Knows footy 100 times more than the pretenders making decisions at WT. Lee says we have a good roster ??‍♂️

Lee is a lawyer, that’s says it all.

I have no gripes with lawyers but him holding up Tommy’s #7 was it for me.

It means he knows little about ***what makes a good Rugby League roster.*** Spent all his time going up the Lawyer ranks, which doesn’t leave much time for understanding Rugby League. He’s a fan who gives us money, that’s all.

Do you seriously think that is the job of the Chairman of the Board?

Probably should just keep his thoughts in his head when ***he’s asked his CEO to review the footy department***

ummm....no, that is **exactly** the job of the Board and as the spokesperson for the Board, the Chairman. The Chief *Executive* Officer (CEO) executes the policies of the board and the request of the board (which is obviously required) is that the football department , which is failing on all measurable accounts, should be reviewed. Pascoe is not part of the Football department.

If the board was NOT reviewing the football department at the moment there would be something wrong.

***You have changed the argument.***

Are you sure? I could swear that you said in your post you mentioned that "he should just keep his thoughts in his head when he’s asked his CEO to review the footy department"

My argument is that it is exactly his job to ask the CEO to review the footy department.

What part did I change?

>Yes a review is required. It should also involve Pascoe and Hartigan, they are involved in putting this rabble together.

Pascoe is not part of the Footy department, he is the executive officer of the board. He would be reviewed as a review of the board and management.


>Lee should keep his opinion to himself and let a review run it’s course.

Really? Who would you think within the WT organisation would be responsible for ordering a review into the football department? What do you think the role of the Chairman of the Board actually is?

Fancy post. Pascoe sucks.

Now who is changing the argument?

Pascoe can be reviewed but he isnt part of the football department.

I'll try to keep my posts less fancy and more simple for you.

Twist those words

Point out any words Ive twisted?

In your words, Lee asked PAscoe to review the football department. That is exactly both of their jobs. Pascoe is not part of the football department. Couldnt be more straight forward and I only used your words.

You are simply wrong, but just keep accusing me of twisting your words.

You completely missed my point. I said Lee should not be offering his opinion of the roster when he had just asked the CEO to review the footy department. Why have a review when you have made that opinion public? Won’t the review potentially find that the players lack any real pride?

Two things can be true at once.

Separately, Justin is part of the problem.

Quite possibly but should be kept completely separate from a review of the football department.

Definitely agree with the thoughts of the Chairman going public about his opinion of the playing roster.
Points all the attention on the coaching staff before anyone begins to look in that direction.
I can just imagine the smug players answering questions knowing full well how protected they are.

 

[tigerap]

Paul Kent got it right last night, “ changing the coach is not the answer”… “there is a core group of players that need to go….” As they are bringing the club down with their attitude….In my view they are:

Brooks
Mbye (gone)
BJ ( gone)
Packer ( gone)
Nofo

Get rid of the above would be the first thing that should happen

Unfortunately Kent is spot on but just can't bring himself to name names

We all know who they are

 

[TigerTownSFS]

Is it possible to sack board members who has the power?

I believe a board member can be sacked the day Noffa doesn’t leave his wing and Twal scores a hat trick

I think the mechanism for sacking a board member is Nofa has the power to remove a board member. He got it put into his last contract.

If wests own the NRL then I guess it’s up to them who they want on the board overseeing the executive management of the NRL operations.

If wests are happy to appoint a Mickey Mouse board who does a bad job it’s their choice because they own the asset.

To get a truly strong board you probably need to sell the NRL license to another investor like Bennie who would then bring in a more capable board and run the club like a business.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

We finished
2019 - 9th
2020 - 11th
2021 - 13th
If there isn’t change soon 15th or the wooden spoon is waiting for us

It is that bad.
Broncos, Bulldogs, Warriors and Cowboys will be better next year based on recruitment and injured stars back, heck the Warriors will hopefully play at home for the 1st time in 2yrs & have their full squad available week to week.

We are a disaster.


Broncos, Bulldogs and Cowboys share a common problem with WT. All poorly run organisations urgently trying to solve problems created by bad choices.
WT started turning things around before them, so I can’t see us not being ahead of that game. It may not look like it after the Hiding we got from the Bulldogs.
Our future success is more dependent on the choices of our decision makers, whom ever they may be?
A typical organisation develops a proven formula for success, establishes systems and procedures to compliment and drive toward goals of various time horizons. Has motivated people, who are fully aware of their duties and responsibilities, the value of the part they play while being dedicated to achieving the organisation’s goals.
I’m totally convinced we are using a different approach where decisions are not born from collaboration and made by the person responsible, but come about as a result of infighting. The TPJ fiasco was a classic example.
As Lauren previously eluded to, their collective problem solving skills are not inspiring any confidence. One possible reason for this is could be the focus on who is wrong, not what is wrong? Playing the man, not the ball?

Issue I have is the Broncos & Bulldogs are now infront of us.

Our strategy of being a junior haven has merit but no junior with huge talent will stay if they have no support. We are also buying a bunch of kids to jump into Reggies or NRL. The pact of growing up together and coming through the grades together doesn’t exist as such wanting to stick together means little when a club who is competitive & with a fellow support cast comes knocking.

Broncos/Bulldogs and Cowboys have bought NRL starting players, we have bought 2 players from ESL. Both will struggle with the speed & size of the NRL. They also will miss the start of preseason (ESL has 2 more rounds + finals, then they have to get into the country - which has taken Sheens 5mths now to get here, hotel isolation for 2 weeks & then find place to live etc). Add to this AD & Talau injured missing all off season & big chunk of the season. We are in a very ugly state.

Normally when you create a strategy you also develop a gliepath which has milestones/success indicators and which then also have plan a/b/c on who/how/what has to happen to get there. You have fortnightly & monthly checkpoints on progression which then leads to cause correction.

Broncos, Bulldogs, Sharks, Warriors have done this well.

We have stuffed it up in a major way to the point established players just don’t want to come here.

Madge said players do want to come, we have a massive amount of cash to spend and yet zero, not 1 NRL top 17 player from the last 3yrs has signed with us for next year. We don’t even have a player who is in the top 30 squads joining us.

Our Reggies offer little in the step up as well.

Last year we had Stefano & Laurie to look forward to seeing this year. Madge talks about bringing kids in but our recruitment on top line kids has also dried up. We don’t even have a kid to look forward to seeing.

It’s like our talent scouts are just focusing on kids to play Flegg or under and hope in 5-6yrs that some (only 9% of Flegg kids make it in NRL) jump up.

Our strategy on youth is great in theory but our operationalization of our strategy is terrible.

Our strategy to never pay overs is great once you have a team people want to join, but again our operationalization of the strategy is terrible

Our coach and coaching staff our trying to enforce structures on players who either can’t play that way or just don’t have the skill. Not once does Madge and the coaching staff coach the team based off the skills/capabilities of the players or have ability to cause correct but hey we train the best ever every week - what more can you train for?

Pascoe has alot of flaws but his business acumen in implementing the financial strategy has been executed brilliantly well considering how bad we are going but he is still able to get money in the kitty.

The reality is though we have no one at the club currently who knows how to implement a football on the park strategy. Sheens role wasn’t actually to do this - his role was on pathways. I’m glad he is now involved based on reviews. I honestly think we need someone like a Bennet with a younger coach under his wing to really drive a change needed, he knows how to transform things and knows how to operationalize a strategy and he knows how to man manage.

Madge has passion, can never deny that. He lives/breathes the game. In his head he knows what is needed to win - his support cast is crap & the way he coaches our team just won’t attrack anyone to the club anytime soon. It’s clear he is lost for ideas and doesn’t know how to cause correct & the playing squad have lost faith.

We can do a cleanout but issue is no one wants to come, if we clean out we have to pay players to play at other clubs and then play for new players undoing all the great work to have a war chest.

Right now we are lost, we have no clear path forward & no end in sight as to when we will see some positives.

The really big positive in all of this is that we've paid the price of getting the cap back into balance, to the point that, the best players on the park will have the higher contract payments, barring injuries of course. This short term pain of having inexperienced players lose games has been well and truly worth it, its given us cap space to go to market, and game time for those players to audition.
I personally think that our coaching staff got the most out of this team of youngsters in 2021, particularly when compared with Bulldags, who had a similar roster.
However, it was a little disappointing that our senior players didn't bite down on the guard and consistently show some more leadership.
What I'd really like to know is, now that we're over the hump. what plans are in place to ensure we dont make the same mistakes? I know Lee said he wouldnt be drawn into commenting or speculating on the future of Madge, and that his and Pascoe's jobs are on the line as well as all board members'.
But are they really???

Interesting that we call our youth in the side as an excuse - will break this down just to show this data:

68 players who are 20yrs or under - we had 3

Of the 52 that are 21 - we had 6 (most in NRL)

Of the 56 that are 22 - we had 3

So for those 22 and under we had 11 out of 176 eligible. Roosters, Manly, Dragons, Titans & Broncos had equal or more than us. Eels & Panthers had 10 each. Rest of the NRL say below that.

Of our 11, 4 are starting roles (Blore, Talau, Stefano, Laurie) which has us with Titans & Eels, and most of the top 8 are at 3. Some of the other clubs have had younger starting numbers during the year but I was using 4 or more games starting to remove SOO.

Great job. Can you do the same review on our senior players?
Maybe use game experience instead of age as the measure.

Before the season started our squad ranked 11th on game experience with 1802.

Teams below us on game experience was
12 - Broncos 1788
13 - Titans 1783
14 - Storm 1755
15 - Bulldogs 1493
16 - Panthers 1230

Roosters, Souths & Raiders had the most. In saying that ***the Roosters included a few players who retired mid season or didn’t play a game - take them out and there numbers fall below ours.***

Pretty misleading stat.

One third of that 1800 games experience is wrapped up in Packer, JTJ and BJ Leilua.

If you add Tamou (267), Brooks (149) and Nofo (139), that is 1,124 games by our worst 6 players.

That leaves 676 games experience throughout the other 24 squad places, an average of 28 games each.

Youngest team in the NRL and lacking in experience

Our squad age isn’t younger by years or a mile younger to some other clubs its by months. Infact some other clubs have blooded more under 21s into the NRL this season than us above the ladder.

At the moment next year will be even worse with BJ, Mbye, MCK, Packer and more gone with zero inline to replace them.

Here is a real honest stat - Lucy from 2yrs back is our last NRL experienced signed player that we grabbed who was wanted by their previous club. Tamou, Joffa, BJ, JTJ, AD all had been discarded by their previous club for upgrades.

Plain and simply put our roster management is a disaster & further proves the point nrl quality players don’t want to play for us unless we are a last resort.

 

[tony soprano]

***Roach hinted*** that the problems are just not the coach,and i would like to know if it's the whole management. Seriously, we have gone backwards since our premiership shock win. Losing key players Teddy, Moses, and Woods was massive, but we show no sign of an upward trend.
Does Managment overule Hartigan and or the coach owing to being gun shy after previous bad signings?
Why does a club with close to 2 mil dollars,miss out on TPJ, Burton, Critchton and at least 5 other players, to sides who finished behind us last year? Who signed the crap second raters and reject Souths players? The whole club needs a cleanout, but who sacks the commitee ?

You lost me at "Roach hinted". If you are basing an argument or question on what Steve Roach "thinks", it has limited merit.

Knows footy 100 times more than the pretenders making decisions at WT. Lee says we have a good roster ??‍♂️

Lee is a lawyer, that’s says it all.

I have no gripes with lawyers but him holding up Tommy’s #7 was it for me.

It means he knows little about what makes a good Rugby League roster. Spent all his time going up the Lawyer ranks, which doesn’t leave much time for understanding Rugby League. He’s a fan who gives us money, that’s all.

That is a generalisation. I don't think he knows much about the game but that has very little to do with him being a lawyer.

To get where he is in the lawyers ranks means he wouldn’t have much time for anything else, let alone understanding Rugby League, other than from a fan perspective.

And?

To get to where he is as a business man, would he have time for understanding how a business and organsiation is built and run? Would he have time for understanding how to network and attract business?

Would help if we needed a systems engineer or HR partner. We need a ball tearing second rower.

If only he could appoint someone like say....a CEO to execute the boards policies and then if only the CEO could employ like a football department with a GM of football, a coaching staff, trainers etc. Then Lee wouldnt have to do it all himself.

If only he could appoint an experienced GM of Football in say a GM of Football role not someone that hasn’t spent enough time in said role prior to being appointed?

What is a GM of Footballs role exactly? Is it to focus on solely recruiting young players to grow your roster? Or is it being experienced enough to construct and provide the framework of which the first grade side should be focusing on. Providing leadership to the coaching staff. Reviewing coaching structures etc. Shouldn’t someone experienced in those tasks be doing that? Or are we just going to pay the man to run the bench and work away on recruiting in the background. Or is that a recruitment managers job?
What is Hartigans role and what should it be?

Sounds to me that job he is doing currently is that job we are wishing Sheens will step into with all his experience.

Exactly, do we even need a GM with someone like madge.
Do souths have a GM?

Pascoe created the role because he wants to be like Penrith and create another layer making it harder for him to be sacked.

There is no point having a GM especially bringing sheens in.

 

[TYGA]

I’m not sure many of you have ever met or seen sheens in action. If he comes back he will run the club. No one answers to Sheens. Trust me on this .

 

[TYGA]

I’m not sure many of you have ever met or seen sheens in action. If he comes back he will run the club. No one answers to Sheens. Trust me on this .

Wrong way around Sheens answers to no one. He will be GM, Coach and recruitment head. He’s not listening to Hartigan, Paccoe or anyone else at the club.