Tim Sheens Returns to Tigers

[BZN]

We are no longer just looking in our nurseries for talented juniors, the aim is to attract the best juniors in the country to the club and develop them. With improved pathways hopefully we will get more kids come through our traditional sources and also attract the better juniors from other regions throughout the country.

Given Sheens has spent the past 5 years in the UK I would say he's not just looking at attracting the best juniors in the country to WT. He would have a few names from the UK in mind to bring across.
Exciting times ahead.

[/QUOTE]

 

[BZN]

You mentioned nofa as a ctown kid, how about chris Lawrence, Brett Hodgson and Tedesco? Or the ones we missed like Hayne or Folau, Eric groathe.

My problem is that's a small number of footballers to mention, if Campbo is such a boom area - population-wise yes, but are those kids playing rugby league? I can easily name 5 or 6 NRL players from any region of Sydney, there's nothing (yet) special about the output from the Macarthur.

In regards to "missed" players, I'm going to say this every time someone drolls out the same old cliches, but Israel Folau moved to Brisbane with his parents when he was 15. You can't find your way into the U18s Tigers feeder teams when you live in Brisbane.

And Eric Grothe Jr, you mean we missed out bringing through the son of an Eels legend?

I think you're missing the point mate if the MacArthur region is " a boom population-wise area" and they are not playing rugby league. The challenge is to get them playing, develop them and provide pathways.

No I'm not missing the point. There are two points: (1) are kids in Macarthur playing league and (2) are those kids ending up in Wests Tigers colours.

On (1) that's as much the NRL's issue as Wests Tigers - the overall number of kids playing League country-wide. It's not just about Macarthur, it's about League uptake in all regions, particularly league "heartlands" where it has been historically and culturally easier to get kids to play League. A significant part of that issue is if your population growth is mostly driven by immigrants, they are the least likely cohort to be putting their kids into junior rugby league until several generations of assimilation. I could barely point to a single Asian or Subcontinental or African immigrant / heritage rugby league player despite those being boom immigrant regions.

(2) was my point about missed players, which was in direct reference to @TigerBlood93 talking about "Campbelltown kids".

I personally don't buy the argument that Macarthur is some magic boom region of both population and potential young footballers. I've posted on it several times before, in terms of Local Govt Areas, the Macarthur LGAs are pretty modest in population, and even the growth is not substantially bigger than other LGAs. By a comparison, Strathfield (of all places) was one of the biggest LGA growers in last analysis by the ABS.

Phil Gould made a song and dance on the Channel Nine Monday show about how Tigers should invest more heavily in Macarthur (and that's to assume he doesn't know how much we have or have not) and proceeded to talk about the boom growth in Liverpool and also how the second airport would transform the area in the next 20 years. Well that's dandy but Badgery's Creek is 22 km from Campbelltown city centre - it's only 15 km from Penrith city centre. Liverpool is closer to Bankstown and Parramatta than Campbelltown.

Now that's not to say any particular club can't invest in a region - hell you can invest anywhere you please, QLD, Victoria, Perth, wherever, but to say I don't subscribe to the argument that Campbelltown is some magic growth and rugby league region that some other club will successfully mine if Tigers don't double their efforts (whatever efforts Tigers and Magpies have made so far).

And then that doesn't even take into account the further arguments: (3) what if you make all that investment and other clubs just raid your native geographies? E.g. Roosters and Storm have the smallest junior league bases going and are the competition's most continuously successful clubs. (4) why can't Tigers just pick the eyes of the best juniors in any geography, rather than fixate on just two classical geographies (as we are doing now - many of our signed-up juniors are not local juniors). Etc etc

[/QUOTE]

I dont know if he and the **team** will leave Us as an Inner City club, or take steps to relocate Us to the South West.
But we need to be one or the other.
My personal preference is and has been since I first came onto Wests Tigers Forum, for Us to be relocated to Campbelltown.
I live in the Upper Hunter Region so I am not saying Campbelltown as it's a five minute drive from home.
I havent been to the footy for about 20 years, but I drove down to Lidcombe Oval last Saturday for the triple header.
I may go again next weekend.
The South West area is just sitting there waiting to be exploited by Us like never before.
It's a rapidly expanding modern and vibrant growth area with the obvious potential that will bring for Wests Tigers.
As you pointed out, Strathfield is a rapidly expanding area but I believe is mainly of people of Asian origin, so we may not get to many of their young ones playing Rugba League.
And why would anyone choose to live in Strathfield or any part of Inner Sydney if you can work and live elsewhere.
The roads are chaos and expensive [tolls], property prices are unaffordable to many, and then there's air pollution.
I guess most players would choose to live close to the area where they train and play, so imo the South Wests area is a much more attractive place to live and play and bring up your kids.
I also suggested approx 12 months ago that the NRL could pay for Wests Tigers to relocate to Campbelltown as they would if we relocated to Perth for instance. That way Wests Ashfield could recoup the $$$ they have paid out in supporting Us so far and we build a new and exciting separate identity as the real Wests Tigers rather than the Inner Wests Tigers.

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

Over thinking this.

Sheens back in Australia hookong up with one of his old clubs as a consultant and heavyweight in the statesman/ Recruitment area.

This is still the Madge and Hartigan show.

I believe Sheens' influence on the players, especially the younger ones, will be noticeable. His football was always built around positivity, which cannot always be said about Maguire's coaching.

"his football was always built around positivity, which cannot always be said about Maguire's coaching" .
It seems to me that you genuinely know more than the average fan, so I'm interested to know why you say that.

I don't know more than the average supporter. But Sheens was and no doubt still is an innovator. His style of free flowing football could be adapted to the game today. Maguire has struggled to adapt his coaching to the pace of the game today.

Pascoe is a winner and has achieved outstanding results off the field. What is to say he doesn't want to help WTs achieve outstanding results on field? It will improve the bottom line as a business. Certainly the appointment of Sheens has been well received. A winner recognises another winner!

Most of all, I cannot wait until Sheens has a chat with our players, especially our youngsters. He from all accounts is an excellent communicator, an area in which we have been lacking.

I dont know if Madge is a good communicator or not.
What makes you say he is not a good communicator?
And it may well be that Madge was the main man in getting Sheens back to Us.
From what I have heard there has been plenty of instances both here in Oz as well as o/s that the best coaches have sought help in coaching or motivating their **team**.
And that to me suggests a sign of a very good coach ie he is not afraid to ask for the best help available to get the best out of his players.
So I agree with you when you say "a winner recognises another winner" :+1: .

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/tigers-to-re-sign-maguire-but-reynolds-packer-drama-highlights-issues-20200905-p55sre.html

I think the term is 'its behind a paywall'.

Tigers to re-sign Maguire but Reynolds, Packer drama highlights issues
Michael Chammas
By Michael Chammas
Updated September 6, 2020 — 8.37pmfirst published at 8.12pm
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The Wests Tigers are moving to silence the deafening noise surrounding the tenure of their coach, set to hand Michael Maguire a one year contract extension despite more cause for concern emerging on Sunday.

A week of conjecture around the coach's relationship with his players ended with revelations out-of-favour duo Josh Reynolds and Russell Packer left Saturday night's game against Manly at half time.

Tigers coach Michael Maguire.
Tigers coach Michael Maguire.CREDIT:GETTY

When contacted by the Herald on Sunday night, Reynolds declined to comment. However sources close to the club said Reynolds, whose behaviour was out of character given his reputation as the ultimate team player, was privately fuming over suggestions that he walked out because he couldn't handle the cold.

The five-eighth, despite being told to find a new home on half a dozen occasions, wasn't required to attend the match but turned up to support his teammates, before leaving at half time.

"It's not a good look for two of our players to leave at half time," chairman Lee Hagipantelis told the Herald.

"Strictly speaking, they weren't required to be there. Russell had to warm up with the team as 19th man but Josh didn't even warm up with the team. Both players have acknowledged their action creates a perception, but perception is not reality.

"I have spoken to both of them and they've acknowledge it wasn't a good look. There was no intention on their part to show disrespect or a lack of unity. Russell suffers from an arthritic condition and had multiple surgeries in his foot to try and help him play again. Sitting there in the cold does affect him, that is true."

The players' inability to see out the match in the stands reflects poorly, but again highlights the disconnect that the club wants addressed in the offseason when it sits down with Maguire to map out its plan for the future.

Russell Packer charges into the Eels defence earlier in the year.
Russell Packer charges into the Eels defence earlier in the year.CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES

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The Wests Tigers has been a revolving door of coaches in recent years and the club is determined to make sure Maguire isn't added to the list, with the former South Sydney premiership-winning mentor to be given an extension on his contract despite already being locked in at the joint venture until the end of 2021.

It's an incredible show of faith when you consider the noise surrounding Maguire's tenure at the club. The murmurs of discontent in the playing ranks keep bubbling along, not to mention the fact the Tigers are likely to miss the finals for a second straight year under his watch despite a miraculous come-from-behind win against Manly on Saturday night.

The Tigers would be well within their rights to sit back and see how next year unfolds before making a decision. That's the safe play considering he still has another year to run on his deal and, to put it bluntly, rival clubs are not exactly lining up for his services.

But in a strong message to the players, some of whom are privately questioning whether he is in fact the right man to lead them out of a decade-long finals slumber, the board and executives will in the coming months add another year to Maguire's incumbency.

The Tigers and, for the large part, their success-starved fans, believe Maguire is the right man. They are behind his no-nonsense approach and want him to add a hard edge to a club long regarded for its soft underbelly.

They also know where there's smoke, there's fire. The issue involving Packer and Reynolds is evidence of that. Packer and Reynolds didn't break any rules when they left the game. Some of their teammates who weren't playing didn't even show up at all, but it's a bad look nonetheless.

The players must take responsibility for their poor choices, but there's also an onus on Maguire to evolve in the off-season and address some of the issues with his coaching style that has affected his relationship with several players at his last two clubs.

Task master: Michael Maguire is known for pushing his players hard.
Task master: Michael Maguire is known for pushing his players hard.CREDIT:GETTY

There's a misconception that the issues arise from how hard Maguire trains his players, that they can't stomach his military-like regime. The real problem stems around his communication skills, and a feeling he avoids the tough conversations.

Like when he asked Benji Marshall and Robbie Farah to approach Moses Mbye about stepping away from the captaincy last year, instead of having the conversation himself. Or, just last week, when he struggled to tell Marshall he wasn't required in 2021, asking the veteran playmaker to "give him 24 hours" despite already reaching a decision with the club he wasn't part of their plans going forward.

Maguire has the runs on the board. No one is questioning his rugby league IQ or his ability to prepare a football team. But a generational transition in players has prompted debate over how compatible his philosophies are with the modern-day footballer.

It was evident last year in how he handled Ryan Matterson, a player who came to the club from the Sydney Roosters with a reputation for requiring a cuddle - or three - to get the best out of him. Maguire is from a different school. The type that brings baseball bats and boa constrictors into dressing rooms to get his point across. Mollycoddling delicate footballers is not in his nature.

The Tigers possess a roster built by Ivan Cleary with personalities that suit an Ivan Cleary-coached team. Maguire will get his team in 2022, when the salary cap frees up in the first season of his forthcoming extension, but what he does between now and then will have a huge impact on whether he can attract Maguire-type footballers to the club.

Tigers powerbrokers know the club is not in a position to let quality footballers walk out the door, or turn players off joining, if it can be avoided by the coach learning to relate on a different level. Sometimes a teaspoon of cement isn't the only remedy.

The Tigers possess a roster built by Ivan Cleary with personalities that suit an Ivan Cleary-coached team. Maguire will get his team in 2022, when the salary cap frees up in the first season of his forthcoming extension, but what he does between now and then will have a huge impact on whether he can attract Maguire-type footballers to the club.

There we have it.. 2022 is the year!

Then hopefully a steady stream of youngsters coming through.

 

[Chicken_Faced_Killa]

You mentioned nofa as a ctown kid, how about chris Lawrence, Brett Hodgson and Tedesco? Or the ones we missed like Hayne or Folau, Eric groathe.

My problem is that's a small number of footballers to mention, if Campbo is such a boom area - population-wise yes, but are those kids playing rugby league? I can easily name 5 or 6 NRL players from any region of Sydney, there's nothing (yet) special about the output from the Macarthur.

In regards to "missed" players, I'm going to say this every time someone drolls out the same old cliches, but Israel Folau moved to Brisbane with his parents when he was 15. You can't find your way into the U18s Tigers feeder teams when you live in Brisbane.

And Eric Grothe Jr, you mean we missed out bringing through the son of an Eels legend?

I think you're missing the point mate if the MacArthur region is " a boom population-wise area" and they are not playing rugby league. The challenge is to get them playing, develop them and provide pathways.

No I'm not missing the point. There are two points: (1) are kids in Macarthur playing league and (2) are those kids ending up in Wests Tigers colours.

On (1) that's as much the NRL's issue as Wests Tigers - the overall number of kids playing League country-wide. It's not just about Macarthur, it's about League uptake in all regions, particularly league "heartlands" where it has been historically and culturally easier to get kids to play League. A significant part of that issue is if your population growth is mostly driven by immigrants, they are the least likely cohort to be putting their kids into junior rugby league until several generations of assimilation. I could barely point to a single Asian or Subcontinental or African immigrant / heritage rugby league player despite those being boom immigrant regions.

(2) was my point about missed players, which was in direct reference to @TigerBlood93 talking about "Campbelltown kids".

I personally don't buy the argument that Macarthur is some magic boom region of both population and potential young footballers. I've posted on it several times before, in terms of Local Govt Areas, the Macarthur LGAs are pretty modest in population, and even the growth is not substantially bigger than other LGAs. By a comparison, Strathfield (of all places) was one of the biggest LGA growers in last analysis by the ABS.

Phil Gould made a song and dance on the Channel Nine Monday show about how Tigers should invest more heavily in Macarthur (and that's to assume he doesn't know how much we have or have not) and proceeded to talk about the boom growth in Liverpool and also how the second airport would transform the area in the next 20 years. Well that's dandy but Badgery's Creek is 22 km from Campbelltown city centre - it's only 15 km from Penrith city centre. Liverpool is closer to Bankstown and Parramatta than Campbelltown.

Now that's not to say any particular club can't invest in a region - hell you can invest anywhere you please, QLD, Victoria, Perth, wherever, but to say I don't subscribe to the argument that Campbelltown is some magic growth and rugby league region that some other club will successfully mine if Tigers don't double their efforts (whatever efforts Tigers and Magpies have made so far).

And then that doesn't even take into account the further arguments: (3) what if you make all that investment and other clubs just raid your native geographies? E.g. Roosters and Storm have the smallest junior league bases going and are the competition's most continuously successful clubs. (4) why can't Tigers just pick the eyes of the best juniors in any geography, rather than fixate on just two classical geographies (as we are doing now - many of our signed-up juniors are not local juniors). Etc etc

Agree with the NRL responsibility on growing grassroots participation and if you listen to PVL’s justification on the crackdown regarding contact with the head one of his reasons is to appeal to parents feeling Rugby League is safe for their kids to play. Improvements in growing youth participation and focus on geographic areas such as Campbelltown, if the data suggests leakage to competitors in that area, is part of the participation piece. Clubs have to stump up too though and add promote their brand to convert those kids to wannabe a Tiger. It feels a little bit like back to the future for me with this current direction as I thought we once were a development club but dropped the strategy off the back of clubs like the Rooster's, Storm etc cherry picking talent?

The change in strategy came when we lost teddy, Moses and Woods. The view was why develop the juniors when they get picked up by rivals once developed.

Instead of looking in the mirror and workng out why they left their junior club.

To be fair I think the club has moved to address this in terms of facilities and off field management of the club.

 

[gallagher]

You mentioned nofa as a ctown kid, how about chris Lawrence, Brett Hodgson and Tedesco? Or the ones we missed like Hayne or Folau, Eric groathe.

My problem is that's a small number of footballers to mention, if Campbo is such a boom area - population-wise yes, but are those kids playing rugby league? I can easily name 5 or 6 NRL players from any region of Sydney, there's nothing (yet) special about the output from the Macarthur.

In regards to "missed" players, I'm going to say this every time someone drolls out the same old cliches, but Israel Folau moved to Brisbane with his parents when he was 15. You can't find your way into the U18s Tigers feeder teams when you live in Brisbane.

And Eric Grothe Jr, you mean we missed out bringing through the son of an Eels legend?

I think you're missing the point mate if the MacArthur region is " a boom population-wise area" and they are not playing rugby league. The challenge is to get them playing, develop them and provide pathways.

No I'm not missing the point. There are two points: (1) are kids in Macarthur playing league and (2) are those kids ending up in Wests Tigers colours.

On (1) that's as much the NRL's issue as Wests Tigers - the overall number of kids playing League country-wide. It's not just about Macarthur, it's about League uptake in all regions, particularly league "heartlands" where it has been historically and culturally easier to get kids to play League. A significant part of that issue is if your population growth is mostly driven by immigrants, they are the least likely cohort to be putting their kids into junior rugby league until several generations of assimilation. I could barely point to a single Asian or Subcontinental or African immigrant / heritage rugby league player despite those being boom immigrant regions.

(2) was my point about missed players, which was in direct reference to @TigerBlood93 talking about "Campbelltown kids".

I personally don't buy the argument that Macarthur is some magic boom region of both population and potential young footballers. I've posted on it several times before, in terms of Local Govt Areas, the Macarthur LGAs are pretty modest in population, and even the growth is not substantially bigger than other LGAs. By a comparison, Strathfield (of all places) was one of the biggest LGA growers in last analysis by the ABS.

Phil Gould made a song and dance on the Channel Nine Monday show about how Tigers should invest more heavily in Macarthur (and that's to assume he doesn't know how much we have or have not) and proceeded to talk about the boom growth in Liverpool and also how the second airport would transform the area in the next 20 years. Well that's dandy but Badgery's Creek is 22 km from Campbelltown city centre - it's only 15 km from Penrith city centre. Liverpool is closer to Bankstown and Parramatta than Campbelltown.

Now that's not to say any particular club can't invest in a region - hell you can invest anywhere you please, QLD, Victoria, Perth, wherever, but to say I don't subscribe to the argument that Campbelltown is some magic growth and rugby league region that some other club will successfully mine if Tigers don't double their efforts (whatever efforts Tigers and Magpies have made so far).

And then that doesn't even take into account the further arguments: (3) what if you make all that investment and other clubs just raid your native geographies? E.g. Roosters and Storm have the smallest junior league bases going and are the competition's most continuously successful clubs. (4) why can't Tigers just pick the eyes of the best juniors in any geography, rather than fixate on just two classical geographies (as we are doing now - many of our signed-up juniors are not local juniors). Etc etc

Agree with the NRL responsibility on growing grassroots participation and if you listen to PVL’s justification on the crackdown regarding contact with the head one of his reasons is to appeal to parents feeling Rugby League is safe for their kids to play. Improvements in growing youth participation and focus on geographic areas such as Campbelltown, if the data suggests leakage to competitors in that area, is part of the participation piece. Clubs have to stump up too though and add promote their brand to convert those kids to wannabe a Tiger. It feels a little bit like back to the future for me with this current direction as I thought we once were a development club but dropped the strategy off the back of clubs like the Rooster's, Storm etc cherry picking talent?

The change in strategy came when we lost teddy, Moses and Woods. The view was why develop the juniors when they get picked up by rivals once developed.

Instead of looking in the mirror and workng out why they left their junior club.

To be fair I think the club has moved to address this in terms of facilities and off field management of the club.

True, it's looking very encouraging.

 

[sleeve]

Please excuse (or forgive) me if the following compiled lists cause any feelings of upset, frustration or resentment - due to my current boredom - but I basically wanted to highlight the accuracy in what others have pointed out. 1) The club’s ability to produce quality junior talent was based on our strong pathways systems 2) Our success with our junior talent pool was due to not being restricted to the club’s catchment areas and 3) We’ve never been a club dependent on big name signings and in the past any marquee (big $$$$) players we’ve recruited never increased our premiership odds, one little bit.
There’s probably a few names I’ve forgotten and the timelines may be a little off, but I trust that with your own personal knowledge and recollections you can piece it all together…and before anyone jumps on me and calls this pointless, I’ll have you know that this was fun on my behalf and a great look down memory lane for myself.
So please enjoy!
**I also welcome any feedback re:worst and best recruits or anything along the lines of this.**

Released 2011:
Andrew Fifita, Bryce Gibbs, Mark Flanagan, Jason Cayless, Taniela Tuiaki (retired), Geoff Daniela, Jason Schirnack and Robert Lui.

Tim Sheens Recruitment & Retention 2012
Adam Blair
Joel Reddy
Matthew Bell
Tom Humble
Jack Spencer
Dane Chisolm.

Released 2012:
Gareth Ellis, Chris Heighington, Tom Humble, Junior Moors, Dane Chisholm and Beau Ryan, Jack Spencer, Ray Cashmere, John Grant and Pat Politini.

2013 Squad
Blake Ayshford, Braith Anasta, Matthew Bell, Adam Blair, Jack Buchanan, Robbie Farah, Mosese Fotuiaka, Liam Fulton, Keith Galloway, Matthew Groat, Masada Iosefa, Marika Koroibete, Chris Lawrence, Benji Marshall, Jacob Miller, Ben Murdoch-Masila, Sean Meaney, Tim Moltzen, Taqele Naiyaravaro, David Nufoaluma, Eddy Pettybourne, Joel Reddy, Ava Seumanufagai, Tim Simona, Curtis Sironen, Shaun Spence, Jesse Sue, James Tedesco, Bodene Thompson, Lote Tuqiri, Matt Utai, Aaron Woods.

Mick Potter Recruitment & Retention 2014
Dene Halatau return
Pat Richards
Cory Paterson
Keith Lulia
Mitch Moses
Luke Brooks
Marty Taupau
Eddy Pettybourne
Yileen Gordon
Benji Marshall, Blake Ayshford, Lote Tuquri, Joel Reddy, Eddy Pettybourne, Matt Groat, Jacob Miller, Brendon Santi, Shaun Spence, Moses Pangai, Manaia Rudolph and Yileen Gordon released.

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2015
Rod Griffin
William McConnachie
Josh Addo Carr
Jack Buchanan re-signed
Marty Taupau, Keith Galloway and Sitaleki Akauola released.

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2016
Jordan Rankin
Matt Ballin
Michael Chee Kam
Jesse Parahi
Joel Edwards
Jack Littlejohn
Justin Hunt
Robbie Farah

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2017
Jamal Idris
Matt McIlwrick
Matt Eisenhuth
Wesley Lolo
Chris McQueen (for 2018)
Ava Seumanufagai, Rod Griffin, Tim Simona and Taniela Paseka released.
James Tedesco and Aaron Woods didn't re-sign.

Ivan Cleary Recruitment & Retention 2018
Alex Twal
Luke Garner
Pita Godinet
Josh Reynolds
Robbie Rochow
Corey Thompson
Russell Packer
Mahe Fonua
Taane Milne
Tim Grant
Tui Lolohea
Tyson Gamble
Malakai Watene-Zelezniak
Moses Suli (upgrade)
Robbie Farah (mid season)
Thomas Mikaele and Sam McIntyre development contracts.
Mitch Moses (immediate), JJ Felise, Kevin Naiqama, Taane Milne, Matt McIlwrick, Tim Grant,
Sauaso Sue and Malakai Watene-Zelezniak released.

Ivan Cleary Recruitment & Retention 2019
Oliver Clark
Robert Jennings
Paul Momorovski
Ryan Matterson
Alex Seyfarth and Tommy Talau development contracts.

Michael Maguire Recruitment & Retention 2020
Adam Doueihi
Billy Walters
Joey Leilua
Luciano Leilua
Shawn Blore
Zane Musgrove
Asu Kepaoa
Jake Simpkin, Jock Madden and Zac Cini development contracts.

Michael Maguire Recruitment & Retention 2021
Daine Laurie
James Tamou
James Roberts
Joe Ofahengaue
Stefano Utoikamanu
Tom Amone
Tuki Simpkins
Kelma Tuilagi, Reece Hoffman and William Kei development contracts.

In all honesty though I did want to point out that there’s no way this appointment should harm us, in reflection of our last decade.
And that this is largely due to having a more solid succession plan in place. Our current recruitment and retention policy is better and the fact we have no cap constraints.
So I just wanted to remind everyone of how brighter everything looks for us and that it’s not all doom and gloom if we don’t land a topline player this year.
In conclusion I’d say the club is moving forward and on the up.

A lot of work there Lauren, it sets things in perspective. This should allay the fears of the doomsday posts. Well done!

 

[sleeve]

Please excuse (or forgive) me if the following compiled lists cause any feelings of upset, frustration or resentment - due to my current boredom - but I basically wanted to highlight the accuracy in what others have pointed out. 1) The club’s ability to produce quality junior talent was based on our strong pathways systems 2) Our success with our junior talent pool was due to not being restricted to the club’s catchment areas and 3) We’ve never been a club dependent on big name signings and in the past any marquee (big $$$$) players we’ve recruited never increased our premiership odds, one little bit.
There’s probably a few names I’ve forgotten and the timelines may be a little off, but I trust that with your own personal knowledge and recollections you can piece it all together…and before anyone jumps on me and calls this pointless, I’ll have you know that this was fun on my behalf and a great look down memory lane for myself.
So please enjoy!
**I also welcome any feedback re:worst and best recruits or anything along the lines of this.**

Released 2011:
Andrew Fifita, Bryce Gibbs, Mark Flanagan, Jason Cayless, Taniela Tuiaki (retired), Geoff Daniela, Jason Schirnack and Robert Lui.

Tim Sheens Recruitment & Retention 2012
Adam Blair
Joel Reddy
Matthew Bell
Tom Humble
Jack Spencer
Dane Chisolm.

Released 2012:
Gareth Ellis, Chris Heighington, Tom Humble, Junior Moors, Dane Chisholm and Beau Ryan, Jack Spencer, Ray Cashmere, John Grant and Pat Politini.

2013 Squad
Blake Ayshford, Braith Anasta, Matthew Bell, Adam Blair, Jack Buchanan, Robbie Farah, Mosese Fotuiaka, Liam Fulton, Keith Galloway, Matthew Groat, Masada Iosefa, Marika Koroibete, Chris Lawrence, Benji Marshall, Jacob Miller, Ben Murdoch-Masila, Sean Meaney, Tim Moltzen, Taqele Naiyaravaro, David Nufoaluma, Eddy Pettybourne, Joel Reddy, Ava Seumanufagai, Tim Simona, Curtis Sironen, Shaun Spence, Jesse Sue, James Tedesco, Bodene Thompson, Lote Tuqiri, Matt Utai, Aaron Woods.

Mick Potter Recruitment & Retention 2014
Dene Halatau return
Pat Richards
Cory Paterson
Keith Lulia
Mitch Moses
Luke Brooks
Marty Taupau
Eddy Pettybourne
Yileen Gordon
Benji Marshall, Blake Ayshford, Lote Tuquri, Joel Reddy, Eddy Pettybourne, Matt Groat, Jacob Miller, Brendon Santi, Shaun Spence, Moses Pangai, Manaia Rudolph and Yileen Gordon released.

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2015
Rod Griffin
William McConnachie
Josh Addo Carr
Jack Buchanan re-signed
Marty Taupau, Keith Galloway and Sitaleki Akauola released.

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2016
Jordan Rankin
Matt Ballin
Michael Chee Kam
Jesse Parahi
Joel Edwards
Jack Littlejohn
Justin Hunt
Robbie Farah

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2017
Jamal Idris
Matt McIlwrick
Matt Eisenhuth
Wesley Lolo
Chris McQueen (for 2018)
Ava Seumanufagai, Rod Griffin, Tim Simona and Taniela Paseka released.
James Tedesco and Aaron Woods didn't re-sign.

Ivan Cleary Recruitment & Retention 2018
Alex Twal
Luke Garner
Pita Godinet
Josh Reynolds
Robbie Rochow
Corey Thompson
Russell Packer
Mahe Fonua
Taane Milne
Tim Grant
Tui Lolohea
Tyson Gamble
Malakai Watene-Zelezniak
Moses Suli (upgrade)
Robbie Farah (mid season)
Thomas Mikaele and Sam McIntyre development contracts.
Mitch Moses (immediate), JJ Felise, Kevin Naiqama, Taane Milne, Matt McIlwrick, Tim Grant,
Sauaso Sue and Malakai Watene-Zelezniak released.

Ivan Cleary Recruitment & Retention 2019
Oliver Clark
Robert Jennings
Paul Momorovski
Ryan Matterson
Alex Seyfarth and Tommy Talau development contracts.

Michael Maguire Recruitment & Retention 2020
Adam Doueihi
Billy Walters
Joey Leilua
Luciano Leilua
Shawn Blore
Zane Musgrove
Asu Kepaoa
Jake Simpkin, Jock Madden and Zac Cini development contracts.

Michael Maguire Recruitment & Retention 2021
Daine Laurie
James Tamou
James Roberts
Joe Ofahengaue
Stefano Utoikamanu
Tom Amone
Tuki Simpkins
Kelma Tuilagi, Reece Hoffman and William Kei development contracts.

In all honesty though I did want to point out that there’s no way this appointment should harm us, in reflection of our last decade.
And that this is largely due to having a more solid succession plan in place. Our current recruitment and retention policy is better and the fact we have no cap constraints.
So I just wanted to remind everyone of how brighter everything looks for us and that it’s not all doom and gloom if we don’t land a topline player this year.
In conclusion I’d say the club is moving forward and on the up.

A lot of work there Lauren, it sets things in perspective. This should allay the fears of the doomsday posts. Well done!

 

[tiger_one]

And it looks like we're not the only club wishing to improve the pathways corridor:

Check out the Doggies - https://www.bulldogs.com.au/news/2021/06/11/barry-ward-appointed-general-manager--pathways-and-junior-league/?fbclid=IwAR3QB-gfKlQlpjMwGIpXjxOtitIfZyMTZtRWhSc9jTe4RAs05nKn-TEEeXw

 

[Demps]

Please excuse (or forgive) me if the following compiled lists cause any feelings of upset, frustration or resentment - due to my current boredom - but I basically wanted to highlight the accuracy in what others have pointed out. 1) The club’s ability to produce quality junior talent was based on our strong pathways systems 2) Our success with our junior talent pool was due to not being restricted to the club’s catchment areas and 3) We’ve never been a club dependent on big name signings and in the past any marquee (big $$$$) players we’ve recruited never increased our premiership odds, one little bit.
There’s probably a few names I’ve forgotten and the timelines may be a little off, but I trust that with your own personal knowledge and recollections you can piece it all together…and before anyone jumps on me and calls this pointless, I’ll have you know that this was fun on my behalf and a great look down memory lane for myself.
So please enjoy!
**I also welcome any feedback re:worst and best recruits or anything along the lines of this.**

Released 2011:
Andrew Fifita, Bryce Gibbs, Mark Flanagan, Jason Cayless, Taniela Tuiaki (retired), Geoff Daniela, Jason Schirnack and Robert Lui.

Tim Sheens Recruitment & Retention 2012
Adam Blair
Joel Reddy
Matthew Bell
Tom Humble
Jack Spencer
Dane Chisolm.

Released 2012:
Gareth Ellis, Chris Heighington, Tom Humble, Junior Moors, Dane Chisholm and Beau Ryan, Jack Spencer, Ray Cashmere, John Grant and Pat Politini.

2013 Squad
Blake Ayshford, Braith Anasta, Matthew Bell, Adam Blair, Jack Buchanan, Robbie Farah, Mosese Fotuiaka, Liam Fulton, Keith Galloway, Matthew Groat, Masada Iosefa, Marika Koroibete, Chris Lawrence, Benji Marshall, Jacob Miller, Ben Murdoch-Masila, Sean Meaney, Tim Moltzen, Taqele Naiyaravaro, David Nufoaluma, Eddy Pettybourne, Joel Reddy, Ava Seumanufagai, Tim Simona, Curtis Sironen, Shaun Spence, Jesse Sue, James Tedesco, Bodene Thompson, Lote Tuqiri, Matt Utai, Aaron Woods.

Mick Potter Recruitment & Retention 2014
Dene Halatau return
Pat Richards
Cory Paterson
Keith Lulia
Mitch Moses
Luke Brooks
Marty Taupau
Eddy Pettybourne
Yileen Gordon
Benji Marshall, Blake Ayshford, Lote Tuquri, Joel Reddy, Eddy Pettybourne, Matt Groat, Jacob Miller, Brendon Santi, Shaun Spence, Moses Pangai, Manaia Rudolph and Yileen Gordon released.

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2015
Rod Griffin
William McConnachie
Josh Addo Carr
Jack Buchanan re-signed
Marty Taupau, Keith Galloway and Sitaleki Akauola released.

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2016
Jordan Rankin
Matt Ballin
Michael Chee Kam
Jesse Parahi
Joel Edwards
Jack Littlejohn
Justin Hunt
Robbie Farah

Jason Taylor Recruitment & Retention 2017
Jamal Idris
Matt McIlwrick
Matt Eisenhuth
Wesley Lolo
Chris McQueen (for 2018)
Ava Seumanufagai, Rod Griffin, Tim Simona and Taniela Paseka released.
James Tedesco and Aaron Woods didn't re-sign.

Ivan Cleary Recruitment & Retention 2018
Alex Twal
Luke Garner
Pita Godinet
Josh Reynolds
Robbie Rochow
Corey Thompson
Russell Packer
Mahe Fonua
Taane Milne
Tim Grant
Tui Lolohea
Tyson Gamble
Malakai Watene-Zelezniak
Moses Suli (upgrade)
Robbie Farah (mid season)
Thomas Mikaele and Sam McIntyre development contracts.
Mitch Moses (immediate), JJ Felise, Kevin Naiqama, Taane Milne, Matt McIlwrick, Tim Grant,
Sauaso Sue and Malakai Watene-Zelezniak released.

Ivan Cleary Recruitment & Retention 2019
Oliver Clark
Robert Jennings
Paul Momorovski
Ryan Matterson
Alex Seyfarth and Tommy Talau development contracts.

Michael Maguire Recruitment & Retention 2020
Adam Doueihi
Billy Walters
Joey Leilua
Luciano Leilua
Shawn Blore
Zane Musgrove
Asu Kepaoa
Jake Simpkin, Jock Madden and Zac Cini development contracts.

Michael Maguire Recruitment & Retention 2021
Daine Laurie
James Tamou
James Roberts
Joe Ofahengaue
Stefano Utoikamanu
Tom Amone
Tuki Simpkins
Kelma Tuilagi, Reece Hoffman and William Kei development contracts.

In all honesty though I did want to point out that there’s no way this appointment should harm us, in reflection of our last decade.
And that this is largely due to having a more solid succession plan in place. Our current recruitment and retention policy is better and the fact we have no cap constraints.
So I just wanted to remind everyone of how brighter everything looks for us and that it’s not all doom and gloom if we don’t land a topline player this year.
In conclusion I’d say the club is moving forward and on the up.

A lot of work there Lauren, it sets things in perspective. This should allay the fears of the doomsday posts. Well done!

Hehe I really only wanted to highlight how totally disastrous some of our recruitment decisions were ?
But in all seriousness there were quite a few names I'd long forgotten about.

Dane Chisolm was cool.
God of State Cup.

 

[gallagher]

You mentioned nofa as a ctown kid, how about chris Lawrence, Brett Hodgson and Tedesco? Or the ones we missed like Hayne or Folau, Eric groathe.

My problem is that's a small number of footballers to mention, if Campbo is such a boom area - population-wise yes, but are those kids playing rugby league? I can easily name 5 or 6 NRL players from any region of Sydney, there's nothing (yet) special about the output from the Macarthur.

In regards to "missed" players, I'm going to say this every time someone drolls out the same old cliches, but Israel Folau moved to Brisbane with his parents when he was 15. You can't find your way into the U18s Tigers feeder teams when you live in Brisbane.

And Eric Grothe Jr, you mean we missed out bringing through the son of an Eels legend?

I think you're missing the point mate if the MacArthur region is " a boom population-wise area" and they are not playing rugby league. The challenge is to get them playing, develop them and provide pathways.

No I'm not missing the point. There are two points: (1) are kids in Macarthur playing league and (2) are those kids ending up in Wests Tigers colours.

On (1) that's as much the NRL's issue as Wests Tigers - the overall number of kids playing League country-wide. It's not just about Macarthur, it's about League uptake in all regions, particularly league "heartlands" where it has been historically and culturally easier to get kids to play League. A significant part of that issue is if your population growth is mostly driven by immigrants, they are the least likely cohort to be putting their kids into junior rugby league until several generations of assimilation. I could barely point to a single Asian or Subcontinental or African immigrant / heritage rugby league player despite those being boom immigrant regions.

(2) was my point about missed players, which was in direct reference to @TigerBlood93 talking about "Campbelltown kids".

I personally don't buy the argument that Macarthur is some magic boom region of both population and potential young footballers. I've posted on it several times before, in terms of Local Govt Areas, the Macarthur LGAs are pretty modest in population, and even the growth is not substantially bigger than other LGAs. By a comparison, Strathfield (of all places) was one of the biggest LGA growers in last analysis by the ABS.

Phil Gould made a song and dance on the Channel Nine Monday show about how Tigers should invest more heavily in Macarthur (and that's to assume he doesn't know how much we have or have not) and proceeded to talk about the boom growth in Liverpool and also how the second airport would transform the area in the next 20 years. Well that's dandy but Badgery's Creek is 22 km from Campbelltown city centre - it's only 15 km from Penrith city centre. Liverpool is closer to Bankstown and Parramatta than Campbelltown.

Now that's not to say any particular club can't invest in a region - hell you can invest anywhere you please, QLD, Victoria, Perth, wherever, but to say I don't subscribe to the argument that Campbelltown is some magic growth and rugby league region that some other club will successfully mine if Tigers don't double their efforts (whatever efforts Tigers and Magpies have made so far).

And then that doesn't even take into account the further arguments: (3) what if you make all that investment and other clubs just raid your native geographies? E.g. Roosters and Storm have the smallest junior league bases going and are the competition's most continuously successful clubs. (4) why can't Tigers just pick the eyes of the best juniors in any geography, rather than fixate on just two classical geographies (as we are doing now - many of our signed-up juniors are not local juniors). Etc etc

Agree with the NRL responsibility on growing grassroots participation and if you listen to PVL’s justification on the crackdown regarding contact with the head one of his reasons is to appeal to parents feeling Rugby League is safe for their kids to play. Improvements in growing youth participation and focus on geographic areas such as Campbelltown, if the data suggests leakage to competitors in that area, is part of the participation piece. Clubs have to stump up too though and add promote their brand to convert those kids to wannabe a Tiger. It feels a little bit like back to the future for me with this current direction as I thought we once were a development club but dropped the strategy off the back of clubs like the Rooster's, Storm etc cherry picking talent?

The change in strategy came when we lost teddy, Moses and Woods. The view was why develop the juniors when they get picked up by rivals once developed.

Instead of looking in the mirror and workng out why they left their junior club.

To be fair I think the club has moved to address this in terms of facilities and off field management of the club.

True, it's looking very encouraging.

I understood perfectly what you meant @gallagher which was actually the reason I constructed my previous post as I did.

The fact our junior pathways systems were pretty solid for an extensive period, despite a lot of club turmoil reflects how strong its infrastructures were - to withstand ongoing damage, until a certain period of time.
Sheens was ultimately responsible for this.
I always felt his expertise lied in his resourcefulness and in particular his ability to fill any predefined needs of the team through our emerging talents.
Also having the affiliation with Keebra (as stated before by someone on the thread) helped create another stream of pathways for us. So we had multiple pathways in place, with a community based one in addition to a more advanced one - the pick of the best talented juniors from KPSHS.
Looking back to the dilution and breakdown in this specific area shows how critical this was to the overall quality and success of our teams.
I think our player development framework has always been the club's main point of strength or strongest selling point.
Therefore I can appreciate you mentioning this, as any related missteps solely blamed on our previous coaches should only be regarded from the club's mismanagement.

But anywho, it's a positive time for the club to once again have this at the forefront of our future planning.

A couple of excellent posts @Lauren

 

[KevB]

You mentioned nofa as a ctown kid, how about chris Lawrence, Brett Hodgson and Tedesco? Or the ones we missed like Hayne or Folau, Eric groathe.

My problem is that's a small number of footballers to mention, if Campbo is such a boom area - population-wise yes, but are those kids playing rugby league? I can easily name 5 or 6 NRL players from any region of Sydney, there's nothing (yet) special about the output from the Macarthur.

In regards to "missed" players, I'm going to say this every time someone drolls out the same old cliches, but Israel Folau moved to Brisbane with his parents when he was 15. You can't find your way into the U18s Tigers feeder teams when you live in Brisbane.

And Eric Grothe Jr, you mean we missed out bringing through the son of an Eels legend?

I think you're missing the point mate if the MacArthur region is " a boom population-wise area" and they are not playing rugby league. The challenge is to get them playing, develop them and provide pathways.

No I'm not missing the point. There are two points: (1) are kids in Macarthur playing league and (2) are those kids ending up in Wests Tigers colours.

On (1) that's as much the NRL's issue as Wests Tigers - the overall number of kids playing League country-wide. It's not just about Macarthur, it's about League uptake in all regions, particularly league "heartlands" where it has been historically and culturally easier to get kids to play League. A significant part of that issue is if your population growth is mostly driven by immigrants, they are the least likely cohort to be putting their kids into junior rugby league until several generations of assimilation. I could barely point to a single Asian or Subcontinental or African immigrant / heritage rugby league player despite those being boom immigrant regions.

(2) was my point about missed players, which was in direct reference to @TigerBlood93 talking about "Campbelltown kids".

I personally don't buy the argument that Macarthur is some magic boom region of both population and potential young footballers. I've posted on it several times before, in terms of Local Govt Areas, the Macarthur LGAs are pretty modest in population, and even the growth is not substantially bigger than other LGAs. By a comparison, Strathfield (of all places) was one of the biggest LGA growers in last analysis by the ABS.

Phil Gould made a song and dance on the Channel Nine Monday show about how Tigers should invest more heavily in Macarthur (and that's to assume he doesn't know how much we have or have not) and proceeded to talk about the boom growth in Liverpool and also how the second airport would transform the area in the next 20 years. Well that's dandy but Badgery's Creek is 22 km from Campbelltown city centre - it's only 15 km from Penrith city centre. Liverpool is closer to Bankstown and Parramatta than Campbelltown.

Now that's not to say any particular club can't invest in a region - hell you can invest anywhere you please, QLD, Victoria, Perth, wherever, but to say I don't subscribe to the argument that Campbelltown is some magic growth and rugby league region that some other club will successfully mine if Tigers don't double their efforts (whatever efforts Tigers and Magpies have made so far).

And then that doesn't even take into account the further arguments: (3) what if you make all that investment and other clubs just raid your native geographies? E.g. Roosters and Storm have the smallest junior league bases going and are the competition's most continuously successful clubs. (4) why can't Tigers just pick the eyes of the best juniors in any geography, rather than fixate on just two classical geographies (as we are doing now - many of our signed-up juniors are not local juniors). Etc etc

You are missing the point mate! You just won't admit it!. A 500 word ramble about demographics doesn't address a need to grow participation in Wests Tigers junior development and pathway areas in the McCathur region.

 

[innsaneink]

Some names there best long forgotten

 

[jirskyr]

You mentioned nofa as a ctown kid, how about chris Lawrence, Brett Hodgson and Tedesco? Or the ones we missed like Hayne or Folau, Eric groathe.

My problem is that's a small number of footballers to mention, if Campbo is such a boom area - population-wise yes, but are those kids playing rugby league? I can easily name 5 or 6 NRL players from any region of Sydney, there's nothing (yet) special about the output from the Macarthur.

In regards to "missed" players, I'm going to say this every time someone drolls out the same old cliches, but Israel Folau moved to Brisbane with his parents when he was 15. You can't find your way into the U18s Tigers feeder teams when you live in Brisbane.

And Eric Grothe Jr, you mean we missed out bringing through the son of an Eels legend?

I think you're missing the point mate if the MacArthur region is " a boom population-wise area" and they are not playing rugby league. The challenge is to get them playing, develop them and provide pathways.

No I'm not missing the point. There are two points: (1) are kids in Macarthur playing league and (2) are those kids ending up in Wests Tigers colours.

On (1) that's as much the NRL's issue as Wests Tigers - the overall number of kids playing League country-wide. It's not just about Macarthur, it's about League uptake in all regions, particularly league "heartlands" where it has been historically and culturally easier to get kids to play League. A significant part of that issue is if your population growth is mostly driven by immigrants, they are the least likely cohort to be putting their kids into junior rugby league until several generations of assimilation. I could barely point to a single Asian or Subcontinental or African immigrant / heritage rugby league player despite those being boom immigrant regions.

(2) was my point about missed players, which was in direct reference to @TigerBlood93 talking about "Campbelltown kids".

I personally don't buy the argument that Macarthur is some magic boom region of both population and potential young footballers. I've posted on it several times before, in terms of Local Govt Areas, the Macarthur LGAs are pretty modest in population, and even the growth is not substantially bigger than other LGAs. By a comparison, Strathfield (of all places) was one of the biggest LGA growers in last analysis by the ABS.

Phil Gould made a song and dance on the Channel Nine Monday show about how Tigers should invest more heavily in Macarthur (and that's to assume he doesn't know how much we have or have not) and proceeded to talk about the boom growth in Liverpool and also how the second airport would transform the area in the next 20 years. Well that's dandy but Badgery's Creek is 22 km from Campbelltown city centre - it's only 15 km from Penrith city centre. Liverpool is closer to Bankstown and Parramatta than Campbelltown.

Now that's not to say any particular club can't invest in a region - hell you can invest anywhere you please, QLD, Victoria, Perth, wherever, but to say I don't subscribe to the argument that Campbelltown is some magic growth and rugby league region that some other club will successfully mine if Tigers don't double their efforts (whatever efforts Tigers and Magpies have made so far).

And then that doesn't even take into account the further arguments: (3) what if you make all that investment and other clubs just raid your native geographies? E.g. Roosters and Storm have the smallest junior league bases going and are the competition's most continuously successful clubs. (4) why can't Tigers just pick the eyes of the best juniors in any geography, rather than fixate on just two classical geographies (as we are doing now - many of our signed-up juniors are not local juniors). Etc etc

You are missing the point mate! You just won't admit it!. A 500 word ramble about demographics doesn't address a need to grow participation in Wests Tigers junior development and pathway areas in the McCathur region.

Well actually, mate, you hijacked my comment to someone else, expressly about Campbelltown "kids" retained and "missed".

You proceeded to tell me I've missed the point that the region is boom and yet they aren't playing rugby league. So I responded - they are playing league in significant numbers (5th highest male constituency in Sydney), and clearly some of those become NRL level (even elite level), so there's more to the discussion than just "hey man let's get more kids playing in Macarthur and becoming Wests Tigers".

Because if you are trying to argue that growing the Macarthur junior football base as being a good thing overall, that is so obvious as to not be worth having a discussion about. The question is - how is it achieved, and how does that fit into the broader strategy for the club?

Hence the ramble. Actually with due respect to myself, it wasn't a ramble at all, it was a structured and coherent 4-point argument, supported by facts. I reviewed it at least twice before I posted it. It was lengthy, I think that's the word you want.

Certainly - continue to develop Macarthur... also continue to develop Balmain and also sign the best talent from any other geography. But my position is that Macarthur isn't some miracle boom region, it's part of a wider growth in the peripheries of Sydney and they are all viable junior league targets. It's one of many regions available to Wests Tigers, despite all the apparent commentary focus on some lack or deficit there.

And then, secondary to all this, what do you do if other clubs simply come in and plunder the boom regions you manage to develop? It's already happened to us so recently.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

Some info. I was in Townsville for origin and ran into Chairman Lee a couple of times. The first at a pub at lunchtime before the game where he was having lunch and drinks with a few ex players (Hindmarsh, craig wing, Menzies). He looked very at home with the boys and very casual. I ran into him later after the game and said gday and said thanks for his support for the club and he was very nice and said it was his pleasure and that the club is very well run by the executives. I congratulated him on the Sheens signing and he said something along the lines of “that’s one thing I did help out on” so not sure what he meant by that but maybe he was involved in smoothing things over after Sheens left on bad terms under the prior management. Anyway I thought it was worthwhile sharing. Not sure why people would be negative on him he seemed a nice guy, humble enough and someone who gets along with people in rugby league.

 

[earl]

You mentioned nofa as a ctown kid, how about chris Lawrence, Brett Hodgson and Tedesco? Or the ones we missed like Hayne or Folau, Eric groathe.

My problem is that's a small number of footballers to mention, if Campbo is such a boom area - population-wise yes, but are those kids playing rugby league? I can easily name 5 or 6 NRL players from any region of Sydney, there's nothing (yet) special about the output from the Macarthur.

In regards to "missed" players, I'm going to say this every time someone drolls out the same old cliches, but Israel Folau moved to Brisbane with his parents when he was 15. You can't find your way into the U18s Tigers feeder teams when you live in Brisbane.

And Eric Grothe Jr, you mean we missed out bringing through the son of an Eels legend?

I think you're missing the point mate if the MacArthur region is " a boom population-wise area" and they are not playing rugby league. The challenge is to get them playing, develop them and provide pathways.

No I'm not missing the point. There are two points: (1) are kids in Macarthur playing league and (2) are those kids ending up in Wests Tigers colours.

On (1) that's as much the NRL's issue as Wests Tigers - the overall number of kids playing League country-wide. It's not just about Macarthur, it's about League uptake in all regions, particularly league "heartlands" where it has been historically and culturally easier to get kids to play League. A significant part of that issue is if your population growth is mostly driven by immigrants, they are the least likely cohort to be putting their kids into junior rugby league until several generations of assimilation. I could barely point to a single Asian or Subcontinental or African immigrant / heritage rugby league player despite those being boom immigrant regions.

(2) was my point about missed players, which was in direct reference to @TigerBlood93 talking about "Campbelltown kids".

I personally don't buy the argument that Macarthur is some magic boom region of both population and potential young footballers. I've posted on it several times before, in terms of Local Govt Areas, the Macarthur LGAs are pretty modest in population, and even the growth is not substantially bigger than other LGAs. By a comparison, Strathfield (of all places) was one of the biggest LGA growers in last analysis by the ABS.

Phil Gould made a song and dance on the Channel Nine Monday show about how Tigers should invest more heavily in Macarthur (and that's to assume he doesn't know how much we have or have not) and proceeded to talk about the boom growth in Liverpool and also how the second airport would transform the area in the next 20 years. Well that's dandy but Badgery's Creek is 22 km from Campbelltown city centre - it's only 15 km from Penrith city centre. Liverpool is closer to Bankstown and Parramatta than Campbelltown.

Now that's not to say any particular club can't invest in a region - hell you can invest anywhere you please, QLD, Victoria, Perth, wherever, but to say I don't subscribe to the argument that Campbelltown is some magic growth and rugby league region that some other club will successfully mine if Tigers don't double their efforts (whatever efforts Tigers and Magpies have made so far).

And then that doesn't even take into account the further arguments: (3) what if you make all that investment and other clubs just raid your native geographies? E.g. Roosters and Storm have the smallest junior league bases going and are the competition's most continuously successful clubs. (4) why can't Tigers just pick the eyes of the best juniors in any geography, rather than fixate on just two classical geographies (as we are doing now - many of our signed-up juniors are not local juniors). Etc etc

Agree with the NRL responsibility on growing grassroots participation and if you listen to PVL’s justification on the crackdown regarding contact with the head one of his reasons is to appeal to parents feeling Rugby League is safe for their kids to play. Improvements in growing youth participation and focus on geographic areas such as Campbelltown, if the data suggests leakage to competitors in that area, is part of the participation piece. Clubs have to stump up too though and add promote their brand to convert those kids to wannabe a Tiger. It feels a little bit like back to the future for me with this current direction as I thought we once were a development club but dropped the strategy off the back of clubs like the Rooster's, Storm etc cherry picking talent?

The change in strategy came when we lost teddy, Moses and Woods. The view was why develop the juniors when they get picked up by rivals once developed.

Instead of looking in the mirror and workng out why they left their junior club.

I look at Tommy T and think to myself that sometimes good footy players are good people. We just had a crop of juniors who were self entitled brats.

Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

 

[TigerWest]

Some info. I was in Townsville for origin and ran into Chairman Lee a couple of times. The first at a pub at lunchtime before the game where he was having lunch and drinks with a few ex players (Hindmarsh, craig wing, Menzies). He looked very at home with the boys and very casual. I ran into him later after the game and said gday and said thanks for his support for the club and he was very nice and said it was his pleasure and that the club is very well run by the executives. I congratulated him on the Sheens signing and he said something along the lines of “that’s one thing I did help out on” so not sure what he meant by that but maybe he was involved in smoothing things over after Sheens left on bad terms under the prior management. Anyway I thought it was worthwhile sharing. Not sure why people would be negative on him he seemed a nice guy, humble enough and someone who gets along with people in rugby league.

I think footy players give his business a lot of revenue😂😂😂

 

[tony soprano]

Some info. I was in Townsville for origin and ran into Chairman Lee a couple of times. The first at a pub at lunchtime before the game where he was having lunch and drinks with a few ex players (Hindmarsh, craig wing, Menzies). He looked very at home with the boys and very casual. I ran into him later after the game and said gday and said thanks for his support for the club and he was very nice and said it was his pleasure and that the club is very well run by the executives. I congratulated him on the Sheens signing and he said something along the lines of “that’s one thing I did help out on” so not sure what he meant by that but maybe he was involved in smoothing things over after Sheens left on bad terms under the prior management. Anyway I thought it was worthwhile sharing. Not sure why people would be negative on him he seemed a nice guy, humble enough and someone who gets along with people in rugby league.

Well said mate.

I was watching the recent 4 corners ep on packer and Barangaroo casino. I can’t believe Barry O'Farrell was chairman of wests tigers was such a strange appointment if you think about it.

 

[BZN]

Some info. I was in Townsville for origin and ran into Chairman Lee a couple of times. The first at a pub at lunchtime before the game where he was having lunch and drinks with a few ex players (Hindmarsh, craig wing, Menzies). He looked very at home with the boys and very casual. I ran into him later after the game and said gday and said thanks for his support for the club and he was very nice and said it was his pleasure and that the club is very well run by the executives. I congratulated him on the Sheens signing and he said something along the lines of “that’s one thing I did help out on” so not sure what he meant by that but maybe he was involved in smoothing things over after Sheens left on bad terms under the prior management. Anyway I thought it was worthwhile sharing. Not sure why people would be negative on him he seemed a nice guy, humble enough and someone who gets along with people in rugby league.

:+1: :+1: :+1: :+1: :+1:

 

[BZN]

Some info. I was in Townsville for origin and ran into Chairman Lee a couple of times. The first at a pub at lunchtime before the game where he was having lunch and drinks with a few ex players (Hindmarsh, craig wing, Menzies). He looked very at home with the boys and very casual. I ran into him later after the game and said gday and said thanks for his support for the club and he was very nice and said it was his pleasure and that the club is very well run by the executives. I congratulated him on the Sheens signing and he said something along the lines of “that’s one thing I did help out on” so not sure what he meant by that but maybe he was involved in smoothing things over after Sheens left on bad terms under the prior management. Anyway I thought it was worthwhile sharing. Not sure why people would be negative on him he seemed a nice guy, humble enough and someone who gets along with people in rugby league.

Well said mate.

I was watching the recent 4 corners ep on packer and Barangaroo casino. I can’t believe Barry O'Farrell was chairman of wests tigers was such a strange appointment if you think about it.

Now we know what the $2,000 bottle of wine was all about and why he resigned as Premier so quickly.
Just another politician with his dirty snout in the trough.
Yuh gotta give it to the ABC for the great investigative work they do.

Also the Luna Park fire...another crook politician involved apparently.

 

[tony soprano]

Some info. I was in Townsville for origin and ran into Chairman Lee a couple of times. The first at a pub at lunchtime before the game where he was having lunch and drinks with a few ex players (Hindmarsh, craig wing, Menzies). He looked very at home with the boys and very casual. I ran into him later after the game and said gday and said thanks for his support for the club and he was very nice and said it was his pleasure and that the club is very well run by the executives. I congratulated him on the Sheens signing and he said something along the lines of “that’s one thing I did help out on” so not sure what he meant by that but maybe he was involved in smoothing things over after Sheens left on bad terms under the prior management. Anyway I thought it was worthwhile sharing. Not sure why people would be negative on him he seemed a nice guy, humble enough and someone who gets along with people in rugby league.

Well said mate.

I was watching the recent 4 corners ep on packer and Barangaroo casino. I can’t believe Barry O'Farrell was chairman of wests tigers was such a strange appointment if you think about it.

Now we know what the $2,000 bottle of wine was all about and why he resigned as Premier so quickly.
Just another politician with his dirty snout in the trough.
Yuh gotta give it to the ABC for the great investigative work they do.

Also the Luna Park fire...another crook politician involved apparently.

Luna park episodes were awesome. Although probably gonnA check the new renovations.

Another good one is sbs she made me do it. About domestic abuse.