Tim Sheens Returns to Tigers

[southerntiger]

Regarding the appointment, I think Sheens has some of the highest highs and lowest lows in NRL history.

I loved him for 5 years (2004, 5, 6 for the high of being premiers, 10 and 11). Outside of WT he created the green machine and was too awful for the last placed Cowboys.

I wanted him gone at the end, and also for a couple of years before 2010. I have to let hindsight judge this one a few years from now, and I hope the job descriptions are very clear.

He tended to build us up in waves, we had the 1st one in 2004,05. he built us up again for that 09-11 tilt that collapsed in a heap in 2012. I don't think it is impossible to believe that he wouldn't have got us to another peak around 2015 mark with the young players he had coming through the lower grades.

You may be right but 2012.... imagine WT as premiership favourites.

I think in the end it was recruitment and retention that lost me, not necessarily just the on-field performance.

Funny thing is it was the squandered recruitment of the players he had coming thru that are now starring at other clubs that put us on the path to where we are now.

Yep his only poor recruitment/retention decision was getting Blair and letting Fifita go but there were reasons for the latter. He was and always has been a nutter.

 

[mikey]

How long til Farah is replaced by Fitzhenry as the blue-shirt runner?

Fitzy will be coach in 6 months.

Fitzy did OK for a while. One of the forum's original sacrifical lambs. 🙂

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

With Sheens coming back he must be keeping up with what's been going on and can see a bright future for WT'S he would probably walk straight back into any NRL club.


BUT with all this off field recruitment happening I hope it's not a matter of TO MANY CHIEFS AND NOT ENOUGH INDIANS

 

[Lauren]

I don't mind it as long as it doesn't lessen Hartigan's infliuence.

Hopefully they form a wonderful partnership

That is my hope, Hartigan is key for us.

Hartigan Is a key for Us Cochise, but the Master Key is the **Team**:+1:
Sheens, Pascoe, Madge and Hartigan.

Agree. There's nothing's wrong with pushing the envelope.

Notice a lot of concern about undermining and what it means for Madge. As far as I can tell he's become the glue to all this.
He deserves huge credit for his part in shaping the future of the team and in particular getting our junior pathways systems back on track.
So no one can take that off him.
He's similarly achieved what Sheens did for the club previously.

I believe our biggest difficulties include developing elite talent and having the ability(when needed) to entice players necessary to boost our team success. But it no longer matters what the cause is, as it simply needs to be addressed.
The organisation have stepped up their game and in fact are quite operative.
Hartigan has been masterful in filling the team's needs.
Madge has correctly identified and started addressing the team's structural issues.
We're trying to create a strong performance environment, unlock potential talent and drive spirit in the team but falling short due to any damage to the organisation's culture and brand - with either one interchangeably becoming a hindrance on the other, throughout the years.
I believe what Sheens did most effectively for us, as a coach, was build a competitive Wests Tigers brand that somewhat superseded or went beyond the club. So it not only succesfully forged an identity for the club but also turned the team into one of the game's hottest commodities.
IMO Sheens in an advisory role could work out perfectly for the club.
Madge (or anyone within the club) shouldn't be left to deal with such a heavy burden, so having the combined brainpower of both could be just what we need.

I agree with others though, that our core or main problem was not establishing the best systems for our players.

 

[cochise]

How long til Farah is replaced by Fitzhenry as the blue-shirt runner?

Fitzy will be coach in 6 months.

Fitzy did OK for a while. One of the forum's original sacrifical lambs. 🙂

Yeah I was kidding, I like him.

 

[innsaneink]

How long til Farah is replaced by Fitzhenry as the blue-shirt runner?

Fitzy will be coach in 6 months.

Fitzy did OK for a while. One of the forum's original sacrifical lambs. 🙂

Yeah I was kidding, I like him.

No
He was crap
Didn't like contact.... Used the handbrake & reverse all the time

 

[cochise]

With Sheens coming back he must be keeping up with what's been going on and can see a bright future for WT'S he would probably walk straight back into any NRL club.


BUT with all this off field recruitment happening I hope it's not a matter of TO MANY CHIEFS AND NOT ENOUGH INDIANS

To be honest I think this is a fair point. What Is see has the biggest missing piece in the club is at the middle management area of the club. There is not enough experience in the positions the step below Pascoe on the administration side of the business.

 

[twentyforty]

I'm not keen on this move. I liked how everything was working and I'm not sure it needed a shake up. I like that our lower grade clubs are going well, I like the players we're buying. I think the NRL side has been poor but I can see it changing too. I'm just not sure why you bring someone with the baggage of Sheens. I don't say this against Sheens, I thought he was a terrific coach for us and I was one of the few arguing that we should give him another year when he got sacked. But I don't like that they're bringing someone in who may undermine the definite vision of Madge. Not saying Madge is a definite to succeed, but I think you have to give him the chance. Hiring of coaching directors always feels like a coaching change is not far away and it often leads to tension and disagreement over the way to improve. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't like it. Only thing redeeming it for me is that Gould is positive about it. Many are down on him, but I respect his opinions and what he did at Penrith.


Watersider, I see Tim’s appointment and the creation of the new position as a positive move for the club. Tim is experienced enough to fit in and understand his role even if we don’t. I think our ceo could have been more clinical in his announcement rather than leaving it open to interpretation? What did he mean by “floating role”? Let’s see the position on the OC and talk about expected outcomes. I can only imagine that internally their discussions are more direct and everyone is clear on the vision, if not then your concerns may very well be realised?

I'm not from the world of business so is the OC the Operational Chart? Like, a document that lists people in positions and their roles and responsibilities? And, importantly, who they "report to", are supervised by?

Does this exist at WT or other clubs? I'd love to see it, if it does.

In my early days of teaching at a large secondary school, the principal proudly published such a chart. He wasn't all that happy when it was pointed out to him that, according to his chart, all the major educational, leadership and planning decisions needed approval from Shirley, the manager of the canteen.

It didn't last long, nor did he. But, Shirley was still there when I left after 11 years!

The organisational chart importantly also lays out lines of communication. I don’t understand Pascoe’s reference to Tim being a “sounding board” for players and Madge can use him as a “sounding board” too if he wants? Pascoe needs to be clear . Maybe I’m reading too much into it ? Just seems to me to be an adhock approach based on Tim Sheens saying he wanted to come back to oz? They either have lines of communication or they don’t.

I view his appointment as a overseer of Maguire, his tactics and training methods.

Yes, I see the position of “head of football department”, if that’s the job title, as an Overarching supervisor, a GM of that department? When someone like Sheens is looking for his next challenge, you waste no time rolling out the red carpet, and that’s what it looks like. If they knew they needed a “head of football” then they would at least have a rough idea of the job specs and description. Still seems strange that he has direct access to the players and the coach can talk to him if he wants to?perhaps he didn’t mean it the way I’m interpreting? I just wish we had a vision of the road ahead and knew how to get there.
I now find it interesting that some weeks ago Madge continually referred to “the playing group” as an all encompassing description of the whole football department.

 

[tony soprano]

ATM the system sems to be building fine. If it in't broke why are we fixing it? I'm not against Sheens coming back but..........

Have you seen how many games we won this year. More support across everything the better,

 

[Tiger5150]

Regarding the appointment, I think Sheens has some of the highest highs and lowest lows in NRL history.

I loved him for 5 years (2004, 5, 6 for the high of being premiers, 10 and 11). Outside of WT he created the green machine and was too awful for the last placed Cowboys.

I wanted him gone at the end, and also for a couple of years before 2010. I have to let hindsight judge this one a few years from now, and I hope the job descriptions are very clear.

I guess Teflon doesn’t stick after all or people have just forgotten the drama and disharmony Tim caused the WestsTigers for many years even after he left the club.

He is not being brought back to coach

 

[twentyforty]

ATM the system sems to be building fine. If it in't broke why are we fixing it? I'm not against Sheens coming back but..........

Have you seen how many games we won this year. More support across everything the better,

We have been in most games, 4 games have been decided by 4 points or less. We could easily have won another 3 of those which would have put us equal with chooks on the ladder.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Regarding the appointment, I think Sheens has some of the highest highs and lowest lows in NRL history.

I loved him for 5 years (2004, 5, 6 for the high of being premiers, 10 and 11). Outside of WT he created the green machine and was too awful for the last placed Cowboys.

I wanted him gone at the end, and also for a couple of years before 2010. I have to let hindsight judge this one a few years from now, and I hope the job descriptions are very clear.

He tended to build us up in waves, we had the 1st one in 2004,05. he built us up again for that 09-11 tilt that collapsed in a heap in 2012. I don't think it is impossible to believe that he wouldn't have got us to another peak around 2015 mark with the young players he had coming through the lower grades.

You may be right but 2012.... imagine WT as premiership favourites.

I think in the end it was recruitment and retention that lost me, not necessarily just the on-field performance.

Who are the players? Just curious

Tiger sharks and Blair were the main thing, combined with lot's of failure and whacky team selections.

 

[rustycage]

As long as he doesn't have too much sway with what Madge does. The last thing needed is a fly in the ointment. I have my fingers crossed that Marshall isn't the next one to show up.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

As long as he doesn't have too much sway with what Madge does. The last thing needed is a fly in the ointment. I have my fingers crossed that Marshall isn't the next one to show up.

I disagree. The more oversight of Maguire the better. If he doesn't like it, he is free to move on. Win win for WTs.

 

[rustycage]

As long as he doesn't have too much sway with what Madge does. The last thing needed is a fly in the ointment. I have my fingers crossed that Marshall isn't the next one to show up.

I disagree. The more oversight of Maguire the better. If he doesn't like it, he is free to move on. Win win for WTs.

Thats not a win for anyone. Thats showing no trust in the person that you've entrusted initially to get the job done. Nobody can work under those conditions effectively.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

As long as he doesn't have too much sway with what Madge does. The last thing needed is a fly in the ointment. I have my fingers crossed that Marshall isn't the next one to show up.

I disagree. The more oversight of Maguire the better. If he doesn't like it, he is free to move on. Win win for WTs.


Thats not a win for anyone. Thats showing no trust in the person that you've entrusted initially to get the job done. Nobody can work under those conditions effectively.

Maybe well played Pascoe? Having Sheens aboard is a big improvement for our club. I can envisage him having a fatherly chat to our younger players just to impart his experience. That has to be good for WTs.

 

[tigerap]

ATM the system sems to be building fine. If it in't broke why are we fixing it? I'm not against Sheens coming back but..........

Have you seen how many games we won this year. More support across everything the better,

We have been in most games, 4 games have been decided by 4 points or less. We could easily have won another 3 of those which would have put us equal with chooks on the ladder.

Could've, Should've, didn't....been saying that for the last 9 years

 

[Russell]

ATM the system sems to be building fine. If it in't broke why are we fixing it? I'm not against Sheens coming back but..........

Sometimes, even when you are driving a Lamborghini, you have to stop and add fuel.

 

[rustycage]

As long as he doesn't have too much sway with what Madge does. The last thing needed is a fly in the ointment. I have my fingers crossed that Marshall isn't the next one to show up.

I disagree. The more oversight of Maguire the better. If he doesn't like it, he is free to move on. Win win for WTs.


Thats not a win for anyone. Thats showing no trust in the person that you've entrusted initially to get the job done. Nobody can work under those conditions effectively.

Maybe well played Pascoe? Having Sheens aboard is a big improvement for our club. I can envisage him having a fatherly chat to our younger players just to impart his experience. That has to be good for WTs.

Im not saying theres no upside, but suggesting he should be keeping an eye on the coach - which I think is what you're getting at is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[cochise]

As long as he doesn't have too much sway with what Madge does. The last thing needed is a fly in the ointment. I have my fingers crossed that Marshall isn't the next one to show up.

I have no doubt Benji will be back at some point.