Time to be honest? (For all of us)

[Tigerlily]

Benji kicked the field goal that should of been the winner. Can't blame him for not closing out the game IMO.

I agree, that was my thought. Benji played rather poorly overall but Tigers did what was needed to grind the winning points, then simply failed to defend the last set. You have to wonder where the cover is when a wingers puts a desperate kick back in-field and there are no Tigers contesting the live ball.

FB was caught out of position, though I can understand he's scrambling across field, but how often do wingers kick back in-field and there's nobody covering the in-goal? It's rare, not like it's a regular try-scoring play. Lacked fitness or hunger or desperation to close that final passage out.

I don’t understand the disappointment in Benji’s game tonight or for that matter any night he plays poorly, his always been that inconsistent player...He plays 1 amazing game then goes missing in the next few then turns it on again...And Im sure if you go back and look through his interviews over his playing career (after a loss) it would be the same old excuse “consistency”... Groundhog Day anyone...“Consistent” ?It’s a word that should be band at our club.

 

[Telltails]

Honestly there are 7 arguably 10 teams with clearly better rosters than ours this year. How that equates to us some how making the finals this year is setting up for unrealistic expectation. Any win is a good week for this team who can't afford to be off their game anyweek and still expect to win.

 

[gallagher]

And how many years have the tab had us at long odds to make the 8? And why does that make it ok?

Its not OK, but there is no quick fix for a clubs culture. It takes stability and patience, so it annoys me when we have a bad game and some people demand drastic change.

Players can have a bad game or be targeted by the defence. It doesn't mean we should fire everyone and burn down the demountables.

At what point do we? I look forward to another threat on how we over achieved in coming 9th .

 

[NT_Tiger]

I'm pretty well over the whole thing to be honest.

It's like eating Brussel Sprouts and spinach. You get force fed for years on end as a kid and eventually you just get completely sick of the whole thing.

I'm like that. This place has just force fed rubbish for years on end. You just get broken down. You can say "Well, next week's another game" and "tigers till I die" and all that, but you just get worn down and in the end, there's nothing.

That's where I'm at.

I have a slightly different perspective. After yesterday's game I was thinking; I have better things to do with my time. Like all fans, I have no control over the result so why should I care how the team goes? Especially when, often they don't seem to care either. I guess they're still getting paid regardless of the result, and all I'm doing is wasting time.
If we smash Canberra I imagine I'll change my attitude.

 

[Geo]

Will be just like Wests Tigers to beat Canberra next week...forum will be less busy..then bring on the Dogs..oh..

 

[Nasser]

Everything you said is right. We also have to remember we are honestly playing close to $4 million under the salary cap. We had the folllowing guys not on the field last night:

Reynolds 800k
Packer 650k
Taylor 500k
McQueen 450k
Salary Cap fine 325k
Mbye 900k (on the field, but zero contribution)

The guys on the field are generally playing to the market value.

 

[Go_You_Good_Things]

I guess everyone feels as bad as I do this morning.
So let me drop in a bit of reality to sadden us even further.
We were lucky to be that close at the end.
We score off an intercept.
We score off that crazy last tackle throw-about.
We get lucky, but don't take the advantage that brings.
I like Brooks, but honestly I think we need to take him out of the team for a week or 2 and see what happens. If its Madden, Douehi, Talau, Walters . . . I don't know for sure.
But what I do know is that he is one of the constants in our constant ability to not be able to close out games.

 

[Bones]

I guess everyone feels as bad as I do this morning.
So let me drop in a bit of reality to sadden us even further.
We were lucky to be that close at the end.
We score off an intercept.
We score off that crazy last tackle throw-about.
We get lucky, but don't take the advantage that brings.
I like Brooks, but honestly I think we need to take him out of the team for a week or 2 and see what happens. If its Madden, Douehi, Talau, Walters . . . I don't know for sure.
But what I do know is that he is one of the constants in our constant ability to not be able to close out games.

Well if you take off the try they scored when they shouldn’t have had the ball after the knock on, and the try they scored after the short kick off that should have been a penalty to us, we win.

No point thinking about ifs and buts. We lost a game we should have won. We need to do better.

 

[Cairnstigers]

Painful...but I was not as angry as I expected, you could see it coming.

Maybe we all need to start being honest about the team?

Brooks and Benji = a long, long, long established history of not closing out games. Repeat sets and 7 tackle sets gifted today. Almost a masterclass in how to lose a lead. Why will they ever change? There is nothing to suggest Brooksy will ever learn how to close out a game. It has been a long time. He is not a kid.

The wingers...crucial mistakes yet again when under pressure. No other teams has a pair who give the opposition so many gifts. This, again, has been happening for years. This is not a surprise at this point.

The pack...once the opposition gets vocal and starts hunting as a pack and back slapping each other, no one in our pack 'ever' takes it up at that moment. No one grins and says "boys, follow me". Once a pack dominates us, we always go missing. We have a lot of guys who can post nice stats sometimes, but no one who says.

Goal kicking...again, easy pot shots missed.

Reality = today we played a team who had not won for a year /had half of them playing almost their first real mins all season / and we had big leads twice.

You just can't lose these games, but we have made an art form of it.

This is not meant to sound negative. It is meant for us to maybe all be honest and sit down and work out what we need.

**We need halves with real IQ (at least one)**...

****We need a pack leader...****someone who barks at the others and wants the dirty hit up.

And we need a goal kicker.

And we need much better wingers.

Being honest, can anyone really disagree?

Benji kicked the field goal that should of been the winner. Can't blame him for not closing out the game IMO.

Benji needs a quality half

No point in finding a half for Benji
His time is almost up
We need to find someone to partner Brooks or find a completely new halves pairing

 

[851]

Watched Madge's presser again...

One really good point is he said "I don't want to say it, but it is the truth" that this club has a history of losing these games / poor execution / failing to put these games away.

Yes, it is the truth.

At this point, it just is...

As painful as it is.

Then he is ultimately in control of this, stop picking Benji and Brooks and give someone else a go, or stop mentioning it at the press conference, I hope he takes option 1, because the tried and tested option 2 does not work.

 

[Spacecub]

The true fact is player attitude, it's like when we all rock up to work everyday, if you don't like your boss, it doesn't matter how much they pay you,it affects your performance...you virtually don't have a go, this is what we are seeing now....take the knights for example last year they were a basket case, the players didn't want Brown as their coach, they bought in a new coach who the team is having a go for.
Maguire has not improved this team one bit, latrell didn't want to play under him, Matterson and masters didn't want to play under him, he can't attract quality players at their peak, yes he'll pick up discards like Douhie,Jennings and the leilua brothers and that's about it....if we are stuck with him he needs to start blooding some new faces

 

[TigerSJ]

Last night's game is a strong reminder that we are still a 'work in progress'. We have come some way to improving our roster and our culture but there is obviously still a long way to go before we can consistently be a top 8 team. I still believe in Madge and that he is heading in the right direction - certainly his press conference summed up where we are at very well.
We have another big roster adjustment to make this season to clear the deadwood. Our starting pack is young and solid but has no leader, no ball players, no winners and little mongrel. Our outside backs are average at best with little speed. Our FB is learning to play his position.
It is way too simplistic to blame individual players for a loss like that - for example, calling to sack our
halves after this week, especially when we were praising them last week. This week, we had only 1 forward running just over 100 metres, all the rest under - this lack of 'go forward' allowed the Titans to pressure our kicking options and led to poor field position on the 5th tackle to make kicks without pressure (unlike the Titans who were allowed an age to kick the ball). Brooks ran for 100 metres and defended well, Benji did enough to get a win in the end.
An honest look at the quality of our squad would tell you that in order to win most of our games every player needs to play at 100% of their potential every week and at this stage we are going to struggle with that level of consistency. We can only hope that these types of losses will help push this group beyond the plateau that the WTs have been stuck on for years.
In the end, quality players is one part of the winning equation and desire, hunger, belief, enthusiasm and will is a whole other part. We have to work on both parts.

 

[JD Tiger]

Last night's game is a strong reminder that we are still a 'work in progress'. We have come some way to improving our roster and our culture but there is obviously still a long way to go before we can consistently be a top 8 team. I still believe in Madge and that he is heading in the right direction - certainly his press conference summed up where we are at very well.
We have another big roster adjustment to make this season to clear the deadwood. Our starting pack is young and solid but has no leader, no ball players, no winners and little mongrel. Our outside backs are average at best with little speed. Our FB is learning to play his position.
It is way too simplistic to blame individual players for a loss like that - for example, calling to sack our
halves after this week, especially when we were praising them last week. This week, we had only 1 forward running just over 100 metres, all the rest under - this lack of 'go forward' allowed the Titans to pressure our kicking options and led to poor field position on the 5th tackle to make kicks without pressure (unlike the Titans who were allowed an age to kick the ball). Brooks ran for 100 metres and defended well, Benji did enough to get a win in the end.
An honest look at the quality of our squad would tell you that in order to win most of our games every player needs to play at 100% of their potential every week and at this stage we are going to struggle with that level of consistency. We can only hope that these types of losses will help push this group beyond the plateau that the WTs have been stuck on for years.
In the end, quality players is one part of the winning equation and desire, hunger, belief, enthusiasm and will is a whole other part. We have to work on both parts.

Good post.

And as an aside, I seem to remember in the past, when Brooks ran for over 100m we'd usually win.
Last night he was part of the problem sure, but so were almost all our players.

 

[TigerSJ]

Absolutely JD, everyone has been calling for him to run more, and he has. I am not suggesting that he and Benji are blameless - far from it. Watching the ball repeatedly being kicked to Don for instance, was mind boggling. My point is that a whole lot of things go into a performance like that - and we are still off the pace in a lot of areas. I haven't lost faith that we are heading in the right direction though, as painful as the journey is.

 

[Sart0ri]

Quick fix drastic change mate it’s been 10 years now I think supporters have been more than patient,waiting for things to change 10 years is not asking for a quick change.Its the culture of the club

We keep changing coaches, which is the major cause of our instability. A lot of personnel have changed in that 10 in an attempt to improve.

The people that wait for a loss to bash players and coaches that they don't like are frankly embarrassing. The last thing I feel like doing at the moment is defending the club or the players but the woefully inaccurate posts made by some of the forum members to push their agendas are ridiculous.

 

[Telltails]

The true fact is player attitude, it's like when we all rock up to work everyday, if you don't like your boss, it doesn't matter how much they pay you,it affects your performance...you virtually don't have a go, this is what we are seeing now....take the knights for example last year they were a basket case, the players didn't want Brown as their coach, they bought in a new coach who the team is having a go for.
Maguire has not improved this team one bit, latrell didn't want to play under him, Matterson and masters didn't want to play under him, he can't attract quality players at their peak, yes he'll pick up discards like Douhie,Jennings and the leilua brothers and that's about it....if we are stuck with him he needs to start blooding some new faces

Latrell didn't want to play under Robinson either who wouldn't accommodate his attitude any longer. Matterson has form in wanting out of clubs prior to playing under Maguire, and Masters got an offer that we would not match. And the previous established high profile coach certainly didn't attract players in their prime - quite the opposite. So let's keep it a little balanced.

 

[mike]

Quick fix drastic change mate it’s been 10 years now I think supporters have been more than patient,waiting for things to change 10 years is not asking for a quick change.Its the culture of the club

We keep changing coaches, which is the major cause of our instability. A lot of personnel have changed in that 10 in an attempt to improve.

The people that wait for a loss to bash players and coaches that they don't like are frankly embarrassing. The last thing I feel like doing at the moment is defending the club or the players but the woefully inaccurate posts made by some of the forum members to push their agendas are ridiculous.

That’s a bit rich. Agendas? I would say the majority on here the only agenda is we want to WIN and win consistently and to be a winning premiership team that other clubs fear to play.

The forum members may disagree how to go about that endeavour but that is just how it is with such a diverse community such as this forum.

 

[Tcat]

Just watched Madges post match press conference. He seemed controllably pissed off. I hope he hammers the team hard this week. I hope he lays it all out on the table and shames some of the players that have shamed our jersey. Any players that can't handle that and think its too harsh or not fair need to go. No more excuses. If we loose every week, I can handle that so long as we hammer the opposition with some pride and be feared by the other team.

 

[ElleryHanley]

Last night's game is a strong reminder that we are still a 'work in progress'. We have come some way to improving our roster and our culture but there is obviously still a long way to go before we can consistently be a top 8 team. I still believe in Madge and that he is heading in the right direction - certainly his press conference summed up where we are at very well.
We have another big roster adjustment to make this season to clear the deadwood. Our starting pack is young and solid but has no leader, no ball players, no winners and little mongrel. Our outside backs are average at best with little speed. Our FB is learning to play his position.
It is way too simplistic to blame individual players for a loss like that - for example, calling to sack our
halves after this week, especially when we were praising them last week. This week, we had only 1 forward running just over 100 metres, all the rest under - this lack of 'go forward' allowed the Titans to pressure our kicking options and led to poor field position on the 5th tackle to make kicks without pressure (unlike the Titans who were allowed an age to kick the ball). Brooks ran for 100 metres and defended well, Benji did enough to get a win in the end.
An honest look at the quality of our squad would tell you that in order to win most of our games every player needs to play at 100% of their potential every week and at this stage we are going to struggle with that level of consistency. We can only hope that these types of losses will help push this group beyond the plateau that the WTs have been stuck on for years.
In the end, quality players is one part of the winning equation and desire, hunger, belief, enthusiasm and will is a whole other part. We have to work on both parts.

No one is calling for the halves to be sacked based on that one game...it is based on years and years of this.

You simply can't have incredibly inconsistent halves. There is a reason why we rarely win two in a row...a reason why we never make the finals...a reason why the game plan and kicking game gets slaughtered every odd week...

And it is the halves.

I like both of them, but it is is not debatable at this point mate. Benji is one great game a month, three duds...and has been for a long time.

Brooksy is a great open field runner who looks good when things open up...but has never shown consistent game management skills. His game falls apart almost always when things are tight or we need to just protect a lead.

This is not even debatable at this point...and I wish I could defend both.

But this has been happening for years...and years.

We, somehow, need to get at least one consistent half who carries out the game plan and creates pressure with his kicks / builds pressure weekly.

Nothing will change until we get one.

 

[Snake]

AD is a real shining light. His best game so far tonight.

Agree his input was noticeably better than last week , a bit at a time !