Unfiltered: Chris Lawrence

[happy_tiger]

lol…I said...Leave happy alone...

Maybe we should have signed Jamie Buhrer..

Rowdy's Mum does a great job with the stats ….

His error levels would be higher as well

than who's so Nelson can get the right comparison

You don't like Mum's do you..

You should've listened to yours more often

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

But that's the problem in the end , one of our backrowers and preferably two have to play 80 minutes every week

When you are subbing a hooker twice , rotating your props , and a backrower it doesn't leave much for injuries

And we are the king for injuries , more often than not because we lack size in our forwards

Yeh i agree. Its difficult not having 80 minute backrowers.

Im not sure what the answer is. The only guy i see getting through 80 on the edge is Elijah. But like we talked about previously, is he big enough and will we miss his workrate in the middle too much???

Life would be easier with an 80 minute hooker IMO.

Don't get me wrong ,love the bloke and I was there for his debut and then saw the boys at the airport the next morning seeing my little sis back off to Mexico

But we can't carry him after 2017 , we need a 105-110 kg backrower who can make 35+ tackles and 100 + metres with some line breaks if required and dint the line in the red zone

I can't remember the last time Rowdy broke the line and got open ….

Is a shame he gets to run off Brooks' hospital passes rather than Moses side of the field

if we want to compete against the bigger packs we do need some size ourselves.Chris and Et together in the pack most won't solve our size problems.
our other problem is that both of them faded badly in the last quarter of the season
( note that Ididn't say they didn't play well at times.)
I hope that there was a reason for ET's drop in form, and he is up to the form that he showed when he first came here
I also hope that Chris has a great year as much as anyone does.
But he wasn't looking good at the end of 2016 either

 

[jirskyr]

Rowdy's stats are surprisingly robust. Goes to show sometimes impressions are prejudiced by human memory, whether intentional or not, are not always born out in the data.

Or there will be the counter argument: "you can quote all the stats you want, but I know what I saw".

To be fair, those stats aren't 100% reflective of performance - there's a lot more to defence than binary outcomes.
Especially in the back half of the season, he was making poor reads in defence and also leaving Brooks all alone in the defensive line. Neither of these situations would be borne out in base tackling stats.
I kinda think (hope?) he was carrying a knock throughout the last 10-12 weeks, as he was really struggling out there.

Not 100% reflective no, but if his stats are decent across the whole season, and there appears some opinion that his back half of the season was poor, then it says his first half of the season must have been quite good. In other words at some point he achieved a good level of play and is therefore capable of it.

 

[jirskyr]

lol…I said...Leave happy alone...

Maybe we should have signed Jamie Buhrer..

Rowdy's Mum does a great job with the stats ….

His error levels would be higher as well

If you keep picking key indicators and someone looks them up for you, showing Chris Lawrence is again fairly well placed, this thread will go on forever.

Fair enough your opinion he's our first-choice 2nd rower and you wish it was someone bigger, more dynamic, making more of an impact. I would not say no to signing a Josh Papalii type. In fact I think Boyd Cordner is by far the best backrower in the game and I'd spend money on him above anyone else in our side except Tedesco.

But we have to be real, we don't have the money or pulling power for buying a Cordner. We tried it with Blair and it was an abysmal failure.

So internally, surely Aloiai and Paseka are two fairly good, young prospects. Both big, both decently quick, have a lot of work to do on their defence and their running lines.

I don't see why Chris Lawrence cannot be the steady, technically proficient type backrower. He's got it in his game. I think Rowdy is a better attacking prospect than say Josh Jackson, who is my the benchmark for steady, lighter-weight backrower, he just doesn't have the defensive output.

 

[Geo]

Not 100% reflective no, but if his stats are decent across the whole season, and there appears some opinion that his back half of the season was poor, then it says his first half of the season must have been quite good. In other words at some point he achieved a good level of play and is therefore capable of it.

I just had a look at the 3,2,1… for the season ...Lawrence appears in most for Rounds 1-16 and often picking up 3 in a few games even from happy..Rounds 17-20 not as prominent but still there on occasion ..Rounds 21-26 not so much...

What is it they say about memories ..the most recent sticks...

 

[jadtiger]

Not 100% reflective no, but if his stats are decent across the whole season, and there appears some opinion that his back half of the season was poor, then it says his first half of the season must have been quite good. In other words at some point he achieved a good level of play and is therefore capable of it.

I just had a look at the 3,2,1… for the season ...Lawrence appears in most for Rounds 1-16 and often picking up 3 in a few games even from happy..Rounds 17-20 not as prominent but still there on occasion ..Rounds 21-26 not so much...

What is it they say about memories ..the most recent sticks...

You are only as good as your last game Geo just ask langlands a wonderful footballer forever thought of for his white boots in a horendous performance

 

[cochise]

Not 100% reflective no, but if his stats are decent across the whole season, and there appears some opinion that his back half of the season was poor, then it says his first half of the season must have been quite good. In other words at some point he achieved a good level of play and is therefore capable of it.

I just had a look at the 3,2,1… for the season ...Lawrence appears in most for Rounds 1-16 and often picking up 3 in a few games even from happy..Rounds 17-20 not as prominent but still there on occasion ..Rounds 21-26 not so much...

What is it they say about memories ..the most recent sticks...

You are only as good as your last game Geo just ask langlands a wonderful footballer forever thought of for his white boots in a horendous performance

Wow Langlands was named an immortal, I guess if your last game is all people remember you for he must be an immortal for that game.

Seriously, could you have chosen a worst player to use to backup your argument?

 

[tiga4eva]

Aloiai has to stay outside Moses,they developed a great combo in the back end of the year. Josh will be a destructive runner after debuting last year. Need him out wide

 

[happy_tiger]

Not 100% reflective no, but if his stats are decent across the whole season, and there appears some opinion that his back half of the season was poor, then it says his first half of the season must have been quite good. In other words at some point he achieved a good level of play and is therefore capable of it.

I just had a look at the 3,2,1… for the season ...Lawrence appears in most for Rounds 1-16 and often picking up 3 in a few games even from happy..Rounds 17-20 not as prominent but still there on occasion ..Rounds 21-26 not so much...

What is it they say about memories ..the most recent sticks...

Geo , lets be honest in 2016 there were some games when the scoreboard attendants or the cheerleaders could of got all 6 points

I'm a Rowdy fan , and he's a lovely bloke from the few minutes we spent chatting in Townsville and great with the kids but unless he can improve greatly he needs to be our utility off the bench behind some of our new signings in 2017

Just being honest …. nothing personal

I want my side to be the best they can be every week

 

[happy_tiger]

But that's the problem in the end , one of our backrowers and preferably two have to play 80 minutes every week

When you are subbing a hooker twice , rotating your props , and a backrower it doesn't leave much for injuries

And we are the king for injuries , more often than not because we lack size in our forwards

Yeh i agree. Its difficult not having 80 minute backrowers.

Im not sure what the answer is. The only guy i see getting through 80 on the edge is Elijah. But like we talked about previously, is he big enough and will we miss his workrate in the middle too much???

Life would be easier with an 80 minute hooker IMO.

Don't get me wrong ,love the bloke and I was there for his debut and then saw the boys at the airport the next morning seeing my little sis back off to Mexico

But we can't carry him after 2017 , we need a 105-110 kg backrower who can make 35+ tackles and 100 + metres with some line breaks if required and dint the line in the red zone

I can't remember the last time Rowdy broke the line and got open ….

Josh Aloiai? I don't see why we can't have one Rowdy-type frame in second-row, decent motor, good lines, good 1-1 defender, smart football brain.

Lawrence averaged 95m and 27 tackles per game in 2016\. It's not the 100 m and 35 tackles you want, but I took a quick look at the top backrowers and NOBODY gets those kind of stats. If they make metres they don't do so many tackles and vice versa.

Cordner 142 m 27 tackles
Jackson 92 m 35 tackles
Greg Eastwood 79 m 23 tackles (just to look at a big unit backrower)
Wade Graham 122 m 27 tackles
Frizell 95 m 34 tackles
Gillett 80 m 39 tackles
Thaiday 86 m 25 tackles
Elliott Whitehead 81 m 39 tackles

Lawrence compares favourably enough with the above footballers, whilst not being generally considered as good as most of them. Actually apart from Cordner and Graham, Rowdy's average metres are quite strong and Graham gets a lot of ball out-wide in the backline, which I feel pushes up his metres.

Anyway not saying he's got the mix right just yet, but I don't see why he can't be an effective contributor with solid defence, willingness to take hitups and effectiveness in backline hole running.

We play a different style of footy when we go the Rowdy's side

We get him early ball , because when we try and play flat and give the ball to him in traffic invariably he loses it

Try and deny that …..

Many other backrowers get the ball in traffic and therefore lose yardage on their hit ups , but create far more trouble for the defence line when they do and it puts the defence in two minds whether the play the 2nd man or hit a 110 kg monster on the fly in the red zone in traffic

Depends which way you want to look at it , but I prefer option 2 , especially if it will create space for Moses ,Tedesco ,Brooks ,Idris or Simona

 

[jadtiger]

Not 100% reflective no, but if his stats are decent across the whole season, and there appears some opinion that his back half of the season was poor, then it says his first half of the season must have been quite good. In other words at some point he achieved a good level of play and is therefore capable of it.

I just had a look at the 3,2,1… for the season ...Lawrence appears in most for Rounds 1-16 and often picking up 3 in a few games even from happy..Rounds 17-20 not as prominent but still there on occasion ..Rounds 21-26 not so much...

What is it they say about memories ..the most recent sticks...

You are only as good as your last game Geo just ask langlands a wonderful footballer forever thought of for his white boots in a horendous performance

Wow Langlands was named an immortal, I guess if your last game is all people remember you for he must be an immortal for that game.

Seriously, could you have chosen a worst player to use to backup your argument?

Did you see the game? if you did you will know what i mean.He will always be remembered for taking a needle to play and wearing white boots.He deserved much better for his last game. He was named an immortal for a good reason but will always be remembered for that GF for all the wrong reasons.

 

[cochise]

I just had a look at the 3,2,1… for the season ...Lawrence appears in most for Rounds 1-16 and often picking up 3 in a few games even from happy..Rounds 17-20 not as prominent but still there on occasion ..Rounds 21-26 not so much...

What is it they say about memories ..the most recent sticks...

You are only as good as your last game Geo just ask langlands a wonderful footballer forever thought of for his white boots in a horendous performance

Wow Langlands was named an immortal, I guess if your last game is all people remember you for he must be an immortal for that game.

Seriously, could you have chosen a worst player to use to backup your argument?

Did you see the game? if you did you will know what i mean.He will always be remembered for taking a needle to play and wearing white boots.He deserved much better for his last game. He was named an immortal for a good reason but will always be remembered for that GF for all the wrong reasons.

Yes I've seen the game, he could barely walk let alone play, interesting sidenote the same thing happened to Wayne Arthurs, Aussie tennis player, a few years ago in his last match.

Yes he will be remembered for that Grand Final, but your quote is saying that is all he will remembered for, that's what "you're only as good as your last game" means. Langlands was named an immortal some 20 years after that game, obviously that is not all he is remembered for, celebrated for or respected for.

Basically you are trying to say people shouldn't be sticking up for Chris based on his earlier season form because that form doesn't matter as "you are only as good as your last game" then used Langlands as an example of that when obviously he doesn't fit the argument because despite his last game being close to the worst display ever on a Rugby League field he was then made an immortal. The highest honour in our game.

 

[jadtiger]

You are only as good as your last game Geo just ask langlands a wonderful footballer forever thought of for his white boots in a horendous performance

Wow Langlands was named an immortal, I guess if your last game is all people remember you for he must be an immortal for that game.

Seriously, could you have chosen a worst player to use to backup your argument?

Did you see the game? if you did you will know what i mean.He will always be remembered for taking a needle to play and wearing white boots.He deserved much better for his last game. He was named an immortal for a good reason but will always be remembered for that GF for all the wrong reasons.

Yes I've seen the game, he could barely walk let alone play, interesting sidenote the same thing happened to Wayne Arthurs, Aussie tennis player, a few years ago in his last match.

Yes he will be remembered for that Grand Final, but your quote is saying that is all he will remembered for, that's what "you're only as good as your last game" means. Langlands was named an immortal some 20 years after that game, obviously that is not all he is remembered for, celebrated for or respected for.

Basically you are trying to say people shouldn't be sticking up for Chris based on his earlier season form because that form doesn't matter as "you are only as good as your last game" then used Langlands as an example of that when obviously he doesn't fit the argument because despite his last game being close to the worst display ever on a Rugby League field he was then made an immortal. The highest honour in our game.

I am not stating that at all.What i have stated and i thought it was perfectly clear is people remember you for what is the freshest thing in their minds and naturally your last performance carries a lot of weight.As far as Lawrence is concerned he is a big hearted trier but not a back row forward.Not his fault he was injured and ended up there he was potentially a great centre.

 

[cochise]

Wow Langlands was named an immortal, I guess if your last game is all people remember you for he must be an immortal for that game.

Seriously, could you have chosen a worst player to use to backup your argument?

Did you see the game? if you did you will know what i mean.He will always be remembered for taking a needle to play and wearing white boots.He deserved much better for his last game. He was named an immortal for a good reason but will always be remembered for that GF for all the wrong reasons.

Yes I've seen the game, he could barely walk let alone play, interesting sidenote the same thing happened to Wayne Arthurs, Aussie tennis player, a few years ago in his last match.

Yes he will be remembered for that Grand Final, but your quote is saying that is all he will remembered for, that's what "you're only as good as your last game" means. Langlands was named an immortal some 20 years after that game, obviously that is not all he is remembered for, celebrated for or respected for.

Basically you are trying to say people shouldn't be sticking up for Chris based on his earlier season form because that form doesn't matter as "you are only as good as your last game" then used Langlands as an example of that when obviously he doesn't fit the argument because despite his last game being close to the worst display ever on a Rugby League field he was then made an immortal. The highest honour in our game.

I am not stating that at all.What i have stated and i thought it was perfectly clear is people remember you for what is the freshest thing in their minds and naturally your last performance carries a lot of weight.As far as Lawrence is concerned he is a big hearted trier but not a back row forward.Not his fault he was injured and ended up there he was potentially a great centre.

Then you used the quote incorrectly because it means all that you should be judged on is your last game. Chris showed he could be a handy backrower at the start of 2016, he feel away towards the end of the year. I'm expecting him to carry his good form much further into the season than last year and think he will surprise a few people.

 

[jadtiger]

Did you see the game? if you did you will know what i mean.He will always be remembered for taking a needle to play and wearing white boots.He deserved much better for his last game. He was named an immortal for a good reason but will always be remembered for that GF for all the wrong reasons.

Yes I've seen the game, he could barely walk let alone play, interesting sidenote the same thing happened to Wayne Arthurs, Aussie tennis player, a few years ago in his last match.

Yes he will be remembered for that Grand Final, but your quote is saying that is all he will remembered for, that's what "you're only as good as your last game" means. Langlands was named an immortal some 20 years after that game, obviously that is not all he is remembered for, celebrated for or respected for.

Basically you are trying to say people shouldn't be sticking up for Chris based on his earlier season form because that form doesn't matter as "you are only as good as your last game" then used Langlands as an example of that when obviously he doesn't fit the argument because despite his last game being close to the worst display ever on a Rugby League field he was then made an immortal. The highest honour in our game.

I am not stating that at all.What i have stated and i thought it was perfectly clear is people remember you for what is the freshest thing in their minds and naturally your last performance carries a lot of weight.As far as Lawrence is concerned he is a big hearted trier but not a back row forward.Not his fault he was injured and ended up there he was potentially a great centre.

Then you used the quote incorrectly because it means all that you should be judged on is your last game. Chris showed he could be a handy backrower at the start of 2016, he feel away towards the end of the year. I'm expecting him to carry his good form much further into the season than last year and think he will surprise a few people.

We agree to disagree

 

[underdog]

It's simple.

Play Lawrence right side, or teach Brooks how to not hospital pass.

Like most players Lawrence can't do much if he's caught flat footed with the ball - and that's where his perceived lack of size comes into play when monstered by 3 100+ kilo forwards in a tackle.

Change one of these options, and we will all of a sudden have a quality line breaking, edge running, gap finding back rower on our hands.

 

[upthetigers]

I get Invalid Content Specified trying to watch the video.

Try this link…
http://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2017/01/16/unfiltered_chris_law.html

Thanks. Good honest assessment. I was bitter about how the season ended, but Chris is right, it could be a blessing in disguise.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Does anyone remember the try he put on for Ava after hitting a hole off a Brooks pass against the Panthers? More of that and my confidence in our back row will increase.,

 

[cochise]

Yes I've seen the game, he could barely walk let alone play, interesting sidenote the same thing happened to Wayne Arthurs, Aussie tennis player, a few years ago in his last match.

Yes he will be remembered for that Grand Final, but your quote is saying that is all he will remembered for, that's what "you're only as good as your last game" means. Langlands was named an immortal some 20 years after that game, obviously that is not all he is remembered for, celebrated for or respected for.

Basically you are trying to say people shouldn't be sticking up for Chris based on his earlier season form because that form doesn't matter as "you are only as good as your last game" then used Langlands as an example of that when obviously he doesn't fit the argument because despite his last game being close to the worst display ever on a Rugby League field he was then made an immortal. The highest honour in our game.

I am not stating that at all.What i have stated and i thought it was perfectly clear is people remember you for what is the freshest thing in their minds and naturally your last performance carries a lot of weight.As far as Lawrence is concerned he is a big hearted trier but not a back row forward.Not his fault he was injured and ended up there he was potentially a great centre.

Then you used the quote incorrectly because it means all that you should be judged on is your last game. Chris showed he could be a handy backrower at the start of 2016, he feel away towards the end of the year. I'm expecting him to carry his good form much further into the season than last year and think he will surprise a few people.

We agree to disagree

What part are we disagreeing on? lol

 

[jirskyr]

We play a different style of footy when we go the Rowdy's side

We get him early ball , because when we try and play flat and give the ball to him in traffic invariably he loses it

Try and deny that …..

Well "invariably losing" it is a pretty wide statement. Sometimes loses it. I couldn't be bothered looking up his error rate, what point does it serve because you are operating from impressions rather than figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if his dropped-ball rate is consistent with similar players. I certainly have a strong impression of Matt Gillett dropping a lot of face-balls at the Broncos last year.

I won't argue I have the impression of Rowdy dropping a decent number of balls, to the extent it was a negative part of his game, but I wasn't consciously tallying the passes or whether other backrowers do the same. Aloiai dropped a lot of footy too, but I mentally let him off because of his inexperience.

What I will say is a definite opinion of mine is Brooks throws a lot of bad passes and the entire left side attack struggles with trying to catch balls in the teeth of the defence. Simona has had issues too. Right side Moses tends to pass behind players if he makes an error. Benji used to throw a lot of speculators at Rowdy as well (by that I mean plays that were perhaps not on), but they were better passes than what Brooks throws; I don't recall Rowdy dropping so many even if he got smashed a lot trying to catch them.