VACCINATIONS

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Flu/Swine Flu Vaccines are not something I buy into. But I am in a group that cannot take the flu vaccine anyway so it is never a choice I have had to make

My discussion is on normal vaccinations that children have had for over a generation now.

If someone has scientific prood of even a tenuous link between these vaccines and autism I would glady listen and maybe reasses my opinion. A valid link is not one as provided in the Lancet journal which has proven to be fraudulent
 
Alien, I hate to break it to you but there is more mercury within a can of TUNA than in a vaccination. In respect to the Autism debate, there has been no proof offered to show even a tenuous link. Also mercury poisoning, whether high dose single episode or long term mild exposure has no effects that resemble Autism. The reason Autism has increased is that Aspergers syndrome was added to the catagory of the Autism spectrum. Previousally this was just seen as people who were slightly different and antisocial, as a result Autism prevalence has increased.

In relation to vaccines, you should definately get your children vaccinated with the standard injections, you can take the gamble and not get them vaccinated, but the incidence of death from these diseases is much higher than the chance of death from an adverse reaction. Swine flu vaccination isn't recommended for children under the age of 5, but it is up to you whether you want to get your child a flu vaccination. I don't think it matters too much either way.

Now adults is a different matter. I am in a profession where I need to get mandatory vaccinations due to my work, i've never ever had a reaction to any of these. I personally don't think it matters too much if you have had your vaccinations as long as you had your children doses, unless you get something like contact with a rusty nail, than get a tetanus booster straight away. Unless you are old, have a chronic illness or continually sick, i think you can survive without Flu vaccinations. Overall though, if a new vaccination came out to prevent cancer would you want your loved ones to take it? I'd say everyone would want to and would want their children too.
 
@Illek said:
Alien, I hate to break it to you but there is more mercury within a can of TUNA than in a vaccination. In respect to the Autism debate, there has been no proof offered to show even a tenuous link. Also mercury poisoning, whether high dose single episode or long term mild exposure has no effects that resemble Autism.

<big>Does H1N1 vaccine contain the same mercury as a little can of tuna?</big>

Some have said that the mercury often found in a tuna sandwich has more mercury than the flu vaccine. But in fact, there is a difference between the mercury in fish (methylmercury) and the mercury in the form of thimerosal (ethylmercury) in vaccines.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) conducts mercury toxicity studies which involves contamination from fish, air, and other environmental sources. This study is about inorganic, or elemental mercury, like that found in a tuna sandwich. In the body, inorganic mercury can become organic, usually as methylmercury (as from tuna).

Dr. Tim O'Shea explains: Methylmercury has long been associated with serious neurological disorders, demyelinating diseases, gut disease, and visual damage. ((1) Merck)

The mercury in vaccines, however, is in the form of thimerosal. Once in the body, thimerosal is converted to a much more powerful organic form: ethylmercury. ((2) Bernard)

Studies show that thimerosal (ethylmercury) is far more toxic than methylmercury
Injected thimerosal (ethylmercury) is a much more toxic form of mercury than what one may acquire from eating open-sea fish (methylmercury). This has to do with the difficulty of clearing thimerosal from the blood. Ethylmercury has a major preference for nerve cells. Without a complete blood-brain barrier, an infant's brain and spinal cord are sitting ducks. Once in the nerve cells, mercury is actually changed back to the inorganic form, where it becomes tightly bound, and unable to cross back out through the blood brain barrier. ((3) Pederson, 1999). Mercury can then remain for years, like a time-release capsule, causing permanent degeneration and death of brain cells in an unpredictable fashion.

And this is how mercury can be the original and unidentifiable cause of virtually any permanent neurological disease that mysteriously pops up later in life. Also, the body normally clears mercury by fixing it to bile. But before six months of age, infants don't produce bile. Result: mercury can't be excreted. ((4) Koos and Longo, 1976)

Four separate government agencies have set safe levels for methylmercury, but no safe levels have ever been set for thimerosal, because thimerosal isn't included in toxicity studies! (5) Egan, 1999).

Drug makers agreed to phase thimerosal out of most vaccines after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration found in1999 that mercury levels in children who had gotten multiple shots often exceeded safety levels set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

Nonetheless, thimerosal remains in seasonal flu and swine flu vaccine as well as other vaccines (even when the insert says free of thimerosal, many contain trace amounts). By age two, American children have received 237 micrograms of mercury through vaccines alone, which far exceeds current EPA "safe" levels of .1 mcg/kg. per day. That's one-tenth of a microgram, not one microgram.

Just look at three days of infant vaccinations:
At birth, hepatitis B, contains 12 mcg mercury…that's 3 X the safe level. At four months, DtaP and HiB on the same day, contains 50 mcg mercury, that's 60 X the safe level. At six months, Hep B and Polio, contains 62.5 mcg mercury, that's 78 X the safe level.

Dr. Boyd Haley, one of the world's authorities on mercury toxicity, chemistry department, University of Kentucky, warns, "You couldn't even construct a study that shows thimerosal is safe, it's just too darn toxic. If you inject thimerosal into an animal, it will sicken. If you apply it to living tissue, the cells die. If you put it in a petri dish, the culture dies. Knowing these things, it would be shocking if one could inject it into an infant without causing damage." (Deadly Immunity; RollingStone.com)

CDC epidemiologist, Tom Verstraeten, in June 2000, had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children. He announced that it appeared, thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines, was responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten said, as he cited the staggering number of earlier studies indicating a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism.

Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative, thimerosal, be given to extremely young infants - in one case, within hours of birth - the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children. (Deadly Immunity; Robert Kennedy,RollingStone.com)

The amount of mercury in a tuna sandwich doesn't compare to the toxicity of mercury in the form of thimerosal in vaccines. They are not the same.

Stay informed, eat well, live well.

http://www.examiner.com/x-26390-Fort-Worth-Kids-Nutrition--Exercise-Examiner~y2009m12d5-H1N1-vaccine-NOT-safe-according-to-neurosurgeons-and-neuroscientists?cid=channel-rss-Family_and_Parenting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
@chilbury said:
Swine Flu 1976 60 Minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7oL7wdQqKQ

shocking. the guy at the end there was lying through his teeth.
 
So this still has nothing to do with the regular injections children have been receiving for many decades?

FTR it is also contained in immunoglobulin preparations, skin test antigens, antivenins, ophthalmic and nasal products, and tattoo inks.

So if your child gets bitten by a snake or spider I take it you would not give them antivenin?
 
@smeghead said:
So this still has nothing to do with the regular injections children have been receiving for many decades?

You didn't read the whole of the last article I posted?
 
and you have ignored my last question.

Does that make us even? :laughing:
 
Alien, there has been significant evidence disproving that article and a lot of the evidence it uses. The thimersol debate started due to a paper released in 1999, since then there has been a lot of research done and almost all of it has concluded that Thimersol is safe, and found that majority of that original article was wrong. The statement that no studies could be performed because it is too toxic is a lie, multiple studies have been performed with thimersol to prove its safety.

In relation to Neurological damage from mercury there has been significant evidence to contradict lwo-dosage mercury exposure (thus recieved in vaccinations) and follow up effects.New England medical journal (one of the worlds most respected journals) had a study performed that showed no connection between lose dose mercury exposure and neurological damage. The US centre for disease control did a study on Thimersol and mercury, it found that there was no link between CNS or any neurological damage and the use of thimersol in vaccinations.

The daily allowance exceeding the regulations is also incorrect. The USA government has the occupational exposure 300-500mcg a day, and daily intake of 3.3mcg per kilo. A 6mth child, who has a low birth weight, well below its age group can receive a maximum 159mcg within one injection (though no current vaccine reaches this level) and still be safe (this is a recommendation by the World health organisation based upon Thiomersal). Ethyl Mercury (that found within vaccinations) has also been shown to have dramatically reduced cummulative levels compared to Tuna mercury. Ethyl mercury ahs a half life of 6-10 days, so its amount reduced to half the original dose by then, methyl merucry however takes up to 40-50 days to half its amount. Even if a child does receive 237mcg of mercury over two years, the dosage is still well within the safe limits, especially as the majority is received from hepatitis vaccinations that are spaced out at initial, one month later and 6 month later for final injection. With this spacing each time the body has a chance to completely clear thimersol from the system. So no cummulative effect would be occuring.

The statement that Thimersol is converted to an organic form is also incorrect. Thimersol is originally an organic molecule but is converted to an inorganic compound which is easily excreted from your stomach.

I've read that article, and looked at its facts and there is a lot of factual errors in it. Numerous studies have shown that Thimersol levels in vaccinations is safe. The

Ultimately would I give my child all their vaccinations? Definately. Is there a risk in giving them the vaccinations? It is as safe as can be proven. Science can only prove what we already know (this is why there is recommendations to remove it from vaccinations), but based on current knowledge and information there is no risk . But on that same reasoning I could also claim that there is a risk that Potato chips could give me oral cancer, currently we think it doesn't, but who knows, maybe in 100 years we will find a susceptibility to potato chip tongue cancer in 1 in 1000000 people.

Would I get the Flu vaccination? No, because Im a healthy male with a strong immune system, if I get sick I should recover. People without a good immune system should get it. Would I give it to my child? Id take my Doctor/ Pediatricians advice.
 
<big>Parents recount flu jab nightmare</big>
By Amy Simmons and Brigid Andersen

More and more parents from around the country are recounting horrific flu jab experiences amid mounting controversy over adverse reactions to the seasonal flu vaccine.

Australia's chief medical officer, Professor Jim Bishop, has urged doctors not to use the vaccine on children under five, following more than 250 reports of adverse reactions - a figure experts and parents fear is being severely underestimated.

In Queensland, health authorities are also investigating the death of a two-year-old Brisbane girl, which may be linked to the flu vaccine.

As the vaccine saga unfolds, whether or not to vaccinate has also been a hot topic in online parenting forums such as Essential Baby, where hundreds of mothers and fathers have expressed their fears and detailed nightmare stories of their children's reactions.

Perth mother Marrisa Moir told ABC News Online her two-year-old son began gagging and squealing in the bath about four hours after having the flu vaccine on April 9.

She says Rohan, who has Global Developmental Delay with hypotonia - a condition where milestones are not met at expected ages - has regressed since the ordeal.

"He started staring off into space with this weird look on his face then his eyes rolled back and started going bright red and watering," she said.

"I grabbed him out of the bath and then he started shaking uncontrollably. He couldn't stand or hold anything, he was shaking that much.

"He curled his arms over his chest and kept gagging and letting out squeals and I had no idea what the hell was going on."

Ms Moir says she drove "like a mad woman" to get her son to the Princess Margaret Hospital. She said he passed out on the way there.

"The doctor said it was a febrile convulsion and that 30 minutes was pretty long," she said.

"She [the doctor] thought it was related to the flu needle he'd had and also said they have had quite a few cases of the same thing happening."

Ms Moir says since the post-flu vaccine seizure, Rohan has continued to experience mild seizures lasting about 10 seconds.

"We had an EEG [electroencephalogram] today to monitor that," she said.

"He has gone backwards since having the major seizure in regards to his development and his muscles are a bit weaker.

"We are working on physio and play skills again to get him up to speed, but I've been told it could take some time."
\
\
'It was horrible'

Another mother, from North Ryde in New South Wales, says her 18-month-old daughter woke in the middle of the night in a puddle of vomit with a soaring temperature and high heart rate.

Lydia says her daughter Sophie had the flu vaccine on the morning of March 30.

"I was assured by the GP that Sophie would probably not have any side effects and, at worst, she would develop a mild temperature," Lydia said.

"At 3.00pm Sophie started shuddering, became very distressed and felt hot. I gave her Panadol and put her in a tepid bath about 20 minutes later as she was so hot.

"At about 3.40pm her temperature reached 40 degrees. She then started vomiting. I telephoned the GP who told me to give her Nurofen and Panadol and to take her to hospital if her temperature did not come down in half an hour.

"Her temperature, thankfully, started to come down … but at about 8.30pm, Sophie woke up in a huge pile of vomit, was very distressed and had a high temperature. She also had a rash on areas of her arms that looked like hives.

"My husband noticed her heart was racing so we took her to Royal North Shore Hospital [St Leonards, Sydney]."

Lydia said the nurse at the hospital told her she had seen "many" children with high temperatures and vomiting after receiving the flu injection.

"The doctor on duty also informed us that he had seen three other children that day alone with similar symptoms following the injection," she said.

Lydia says she and her husband are concerned about whether the vaccine will continue to affect Sophie in the future.

"My husband and I were very worried. We have never seen her that sick in her whole life. She has never had a 40 degree temperature," Lydia said.

"She also has never thrown up as much as she did that day and night. She was so distressed. It was horrible. I would have never got this done to my perfectly healthy child if I was informed about the possible reactions."

And it seems the adverse reactions are not just occurring in children under the age of five.

A mother from Bardon, in Brisbane's west, says her three children aged four, six and eight all suffered rapidly rising temperatures in excess of 39 degrees Celsius, severe headaches and repeated vomiting.

She says the shots were administered by a GP, who "was very much of the opinion that the reactions were a response to the vaccine".
\
\
Reporting channels

The Federal Government says it has a national reporting line set up for individuals and health professionals to report adverse drug and vaccine reactions, which it says has been in place for decades.

Queensland and Western Australia's health departments both say the onus is on doctors to record adverse reactions to vaccines.

But some parents have told ABC News Online that health authorities dismissed their concerns that their child's reaction may be linked to the flu vaccine.

Jim Hocking from Armadale, near Perth, says both his children had to be hospitalised within days of receiving the flu vaccine in June last year.

"We've ended up with two really sick kids in the space of a week. We haven't taken them to any playgroups, they haven't been around any kids that have been notably sick and now they've absolutely crashed in a day or two," he said.

Mr Hocking said he and his wife told doctors at the Armadale hospital that their children had just had the flu vaccine, but he says there has never been any follow-up and he has no idea if their cases were ever reported.

"You're at a public hospital, you're being dealt with as an emergency case. The only avenue we've been able to raise it with is with our local GP," he said.

"At the end of the day we haven't had any follow-up from anybody."

Mr Hocking says he is worried that health authorities may view cases in isolation if there are no clear channels of reporting reactions.

"It is worrying … if they don't know that there's a problem. I guess with any injection they give it would be an advantage to have someone to call to say there's been a reaction. It would make sense to certainly have an easier way to report your concerns," he said.

Earlier this week, Kirsten Maloney from the ACT complained that her daughter's reaction to the flu vaccine had so far not been recorded by ACT officials.

The ACT's chief medical officer, Dr Charles Guest, has said there are no reports of serious reactions to the vaccine in the ACT.

But Ms Maloney says her daughter was admitted to hospital after she received the injection.

"There was an adverse drug reaction report filled out by one of the pharmacists at Canberra Hospital, and all the doctors that we talked to and the paediatricians that we spoke to acknowledged that it was most likely the reaction to the flu shot," she said.

"I don't understand how [Dr Guest] doesn't know about that."

Brisbane mother Jodi Hahn said her son reacted 12 hours after having the swine flu vaccine, but authorities told her he probably had croup.

Five weeks after her son was rushed to hospital with febrile convulsions, vomiting and fever, Queensland Health has finally agreed to officially record his case as a reaction to the vaccine.

Peter Collignon, a professor of infectious diseases from the Australian National University, says the number of recorded cases of adverse reactions is probably underestimated, given authorities have no system in place to monitor people's reactions.

He says an effective surveillance system should monitor thousands of people for one or two weeks after vaccination before rolling out the vaccine to the entire population.

"We need a better system than voluntary notification to the TGA [Therapeutic Goods Administration] that there's a problem," he said.

"Because whenever you do that you really underestimate how much of a problem there is."

Health authorities are investigating the recent spike in reports of reactions.
 
See how alot of health authorities won't admit that it is the vaccine. When people are perfectly fine and then they come down very sick with convulsions just after they had the vaccine and they are the same symptoms as heaps of others that just had the vaccine then what the hell do you think is causing it? Idiots! They know exactly what is causing it.
 
@Illek said:
Alien, there has been significant evidence disproving that article and a lot of the evidence it uses. The thimersol debate started due to a paper released in 1999, since then there has been a lot of research done and almost all of it has concluded that Thimersol is safe, and found that majority of that original article was wrong. The statement that no studies could be performed because it is too toxic is a lie, multiple studies have been performed with thimersol to prove its safety.

In relation to Neurological damage from mercury there has been significant evidence to contradict lwo-dosage mercury exposure (thus recieved in vaccinations) and follow up effects.New England medical journal (one of the worlds most respected journals) had a study performed that showed no connection between lose dose mercury exposure and neurological damage. The US centre for disease control did a study on Thimersol and mercury, it found that there was no link between CNS or any neurological damage and the use of thimersol in vaccinations.

The daily allowance exceeding the regulations is also incorrect. The USA government has the occupational exposure 300-500mcg a day, and daily intake of 3.3mcg per kilo. A 6mth child, who has a low birth weight, well below its age group can receive a maximum 159mcg within one injection (though no current vaccine reaches this level) and still be safe (this is a recommendation by the World health organisation based upon Thiomersal). Ethyl Mercury (that found within vaccinations) has also been shown to have dramatically reduced cummulative levels compared to Tuna mercury. Ethyl mercury ahs a half life of 6-10 days, so its amount reduced to half the original dose by then, methyl merucry however takes up to 40-50 days to half its amount. Even if a child does receive 237mcg of mercury over two years, the dosage is still well within the safe limits, especially as the majority is received from hepatitis vaccinations that are spaced out at initial, one month later and 6 month later for final injection. With this spacing each time the body has a chance to completely clear thimersol from the system. So no cummulative effect would be occuring.

The statement that Thimersol is converted to an organic form is also incorrect. Thimersol is originally an organic molecule but is converted to an inorganic compound which is easily excreted from your stomach.

I've read that article, and looked at its facts and there is a lot of factual errors in it. Numerous studies have shown that Thimersol levels in vaccinations is safe. The

Ultimately would I give my child all their vaccinations? Definately. Is there a risk in giving them the vaccinations? It is as safe as can be proven. Science can only prove what we already know (this is why there is recommendations to remove it from vaccinations), but based on current knowledge and information there is no risk . But on that same reasoning I could also claim that there is a risk that Potato chips could give me oral cancer, currently we think it doesn't, but who knows, maybe in 100 years we will find a susceptibility to potato chip tongue cancer in 1 in 1000000 people.

Do you have any links? It isn't just that one article. The are lot of articles and videos that say close to the same thing.

@Illek said:
Would I get the Flu vaccination? No, because Im a healthy male with a strong immune system, if I get sick I should recover. People without a good immune system should get it. Would I give it to my child? Id take my Doctor/ Pediatricians advice.

There are doctors that will give the vaccine to children and adults but won't get the vaccine themselves, wont give the vaccine to their kids and will tell their relatives and friends not to get it. I don't think doctors are allowed to tell you that you shouldn't get the vaccine. Also some doctors say it's safe for children under 10 to get the vaccine and other doctors say it isn't so maybe you shouldn't always believe everything the doctor says.
 
Yeah I have a trusted doctor who has always given me the straight facts. I will trust his opinion over internet videos as …..well that should be pretty obvious.

Informed decisions is the key fact we can all agree on.
 
@smeghead said:
Yeah I have a trusted doctor who has always given me the straight facts. I will trust his opinion over internet videos as …..well that should be pretty obvious.

Informed decisions is the key fact we can all agree on.

Yeah I know but it's not good when some doctors say it's safe and others say it isn't.
 
@alien said:
@smeghead said:
Yeah I have a trusted doctor who has always given me the straight facts. I will trust his opinion over internet videos as …..well that should be pretty obvious.

Informed decisions is the key fact we can all agree on.

Yeah I know but it's not good when some doctors say it's safe and others say it isn't.

it comes down for what you look for in a doctor I guess.

If you are happy with Medical Centres where you get any doctor than that is your choice
 
@citizen cub said:
I got my swine flu vaccinations before I went to New York last November now I have to get my seasonal flu vaccination soon…

Well dont be surprised to get ill 5 to 10 years down the track because thats how the vaccines even the Swine flu work
its a cancer causing agent…
 
I blame Chernobyl….I do seriously....

That one man made disaster has contributed to more incidents of children's cancer worldwide than any vaccine ever will......
 
Chernobyl was a Zionist conspiracy to bring about the end of the Cold War to allow them to rape the fertile lands of the upper Ukraine. They are getting the rest of us by putting fluride in the water

Now where did I put my tin foil hat
 
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