Agree totally its time to start blooding fellise, tatola and marsters, we have the balance of the season to give them a solid taste of first grade, edwards is not our future, lovett does give his all and might be a option with a solid front row but lets start NOW. ET is our Kevin Hardwick and i loved Kevin
We cant keep carrying ET
- Thread starter king_sirro
- Start date
earl
Well-known member
@ said:
I think it's the whole pack that is a problem. I reckon Lawrence, ET & Aloiai are the only guys who are really decent first graders. Woods is a good first grade player but his soft hit-ups and slow play the balls impact the team to me more than ET. Sue & Grant have their moments but they make mistakes. Thompson last night was caught out defensively.
If you look at Blair he really isn't that good a player. He has good line speed and puts in every game but he doesn't have the ability to dent the line. He is though slotted into a great pack and his deficiencies aren't really noticeable.
We could though really do with an impact player in the forwards. If Idris could get his act together I reckon he could fill that role or we have to go to market and buy someone.
I think our pack though will be much better next year.
Harvey
Well-known member
@ said:
How does Woods get off scott free there? Lawrence does much more than him. Edwards contributes less in attack than ET and the sooner a replacement is found the better.
I can't believe that we did not push Parra for a player to help out here to release Moses. Even someone like Twal, Alvaro, Gower that is not necessarily part of their first 17, but would help here.
This is the same guy who made 41 tackles last night? Many clubs play props at lock. Taylor is an old school lock - one who tackles and has some ball skills. I don't think he's the problem.
InBenjiWeTrust
Well-known member
our problem is that our main forward runs more meters than our 2 2nd rowers, lock and a prop, game after game, season after season. Hopefully with Matulino, Packer, McQueen, Eastwood, and .. ? the team will be more balanced :sign:
8 Matulino
10 Packer
11 McQueen
12 Taylor
13 Eastwood
14 Twal
15 Tatola
16 Aloiai
17 Liddle
8 Matulino
10 Packer
11 McQueen
12 Taylor
13 Eastwood
14 Twal
15 Tatola
16 Aloiai
17 Liddle
Harvey
Well-known member
@ said:
Spot on. Lawrence is holding back our superstars such as Edwards, Sue, Grant, Ava, MWZ, Kev, MCK, etc. If they weren't being forced to carry him, we would be premiership contenders.
Tiger_Watto
New member
I can see where your going KS and believe our number 1 problem [among many] starts with lack of meters in the middle. While I see the value in ET, I believe we need 3 Props to open the game to get us going forward better. Its an old adage, but if you compete in the opening 20-30min in the middle, it still goes along way to building the right platform to win the game.
I feel our bench is also part of this problem and dont think we can carry a backrower. We need more tall timber to grind out the meters!
I feel our bench is also part of this problem and dont think we can carry a backrower. We need more tall timber to grind out the meters!
jirskyr
Well-known member
@ said:
I agree with this entirely.
I appreciate OP for the thought process, I do raise an eyebrow of someone who is suspicious of stats, but brings them out anyway. The idea that "some stats are so damning they have to have meaning" (paraphrasing) is absolutely subjective - where do you draw the line as towards the damnation of a set of data or trends?
What I agree with Yoss is KS has pulled out clubs where the 13 is a prop. A lot of clubs have an ET-type player, he might not necessarily be at #13, but he's in there somewhere. Gavin Cooper made 56m in 80 mins on Thursday, John Asiata starting prop made 86m, Luke Lewis made 30m in 80 mins. Last night Ryan Hoffman made 49m in 80 mins, Bunty Afoa made 56m at #13, Tyson Frizell and Tariq Sims both made 80-odd metres in 50-odd minutes.
Tigers don't have an 80m tackle machine hooker, so ET has to pick some of that up.
And the primary issue is the lack of punch in the 2nd row. You can put ET at #12 and a monster in #13, but we basically have 3 ET builds in the backrow and that's not enough firepower for the modern game, esp with only Woods making genuine yards each match.
240z
Well-known member
I would play him at 5/8\. Great defender to help Brooks and has a solid passing game. Gives him more space to run as well. Replace him at lock with Marsters.
Fade_To_Black
New member
@ said:
Sure. Who is your nomination? Elijah puts in more effort and determination than the rest of our pack combined. Would hate to think what our team would be like without ET. Heart and soul player, he is a champ. Summed it up near the end of the game last night when him and Woods were sitting on the bench, ET was 100% spent, just slumped over in exhaustion and Woods is sitting there fresh playing with his hair next to him.
VanillaThunder
New member
@ said:
Wish I could cc: this to Jirskyr as well, because he made some very valid points, but I think it's also worth noting that ET simply doesn't make many runs. When he does, he isn't manhandled (Lovett, Edwards) or loses tackles (Woods). He got absolutely smashed by Burgess but got up and made an extra few metres. ET is one of our best (though not MoM the last few weeks like others have voted), he's just simply in the wrong company. We rely so much on our backs making the metres (from memory, Teddy had 23 runs, Naiqama 17, Nofo had 12 or 13 and every forward bar Woods had 6 or 7) that we just don't have go-forward full stop. Lawrence is one of our best for metres in a straight line while winning the ruck but no-one else bar maybe Ava comes close. If we had forwards who didn't shirk the hard work and were defensively capable ET wouldn't need to make 50+ tackles a game.
He's an exceptional defender and a good link man, it's not that he's a bad runner, he just has to cover so many other deficiencies in our team. If we had a Graham, Lewis or Bukuya (incidentally all Sharks, who also play a prop at 13) to help make yards ET would only look better, but I think putting him on an edge would only make our middle weaker.
He does the job he's told to go out and do. If he was told to go out there and tuck the ball under his arm and hit it up 12-15 times a game he would and he would probably make decent enough metres. He's got pretty good leg drive and massive determination. He's clearly been told to ball play a little probably both to conserve himself for the enormous defensive workload he's expected to shoulder and also because he's pretty useful as a ball player. Nobody is carrying him. Blame the coach not the player if you have a problem with the metres he puts out, it's certainly not for lack of effort or preparedness on his part.
king_sirro
Well-known member
@ said:
same thing mate. Doesn't matter if its coaches instructions or just ET…same result....poor go forward. Hence we cant carry him at lock.
Cleary is starting to show he has no idea like past coaches.
king_sirro
Well-known member
@ said:
Can you name one top 8 side that has a lock who makes less than 50m per game? Go on idiot, name a top side who carries a middle player that does NOT go forward. Every top side has a lock that goes forward. I challenge u to prove that wrong.
earl
Well-known member
Siro - I hear what you are stating but his overall game matters. How many players miss tackles stone cold up the middle ? Sue/Woods/Edwards all miss tackles straight up the middle. We get rolled because of those missed tackles, poor discipline and dud plays. ET does this less than basically every player in our team.
I honestly think we need a better pack but I'd play ET at lock. He can ball play. He makes his tackles and he can hit it up. His runs aren't great but I think in the context of his overall game we need the guy playing in the middle.
8\. Packer
9\. MM
10\. Matulino
11\. Lawrence
12\. McQueen
13\. ET
14\. Grant – as a prop replacement.
15\. Sue -- I think we need a better player here though. I view Sue as only a prop but his mistakes and missed tackles are not acceptable.
16\. Aloiai -- have him replace ET for 20 minutes a game.
17\. Liddle
I think ideally we'd have a unit as an edge backrower but we bought McQueen. I honestly think this is an area we should target in our recruitment.
I honestly think we need a better pack but I'd play ET at lock. He can ball play. He makes his tackles and he can hit it up. His runs aren't great but I think in the context of his overall game we need the guy playing in the middle.
8\. Packer
9\. MM
10\. Matulino
11\. Lawrence
12\. McQueen
13\. ET
14\. Grant – as a prop replacement.
15\. Sue -- I think we need a better player here though. I view Sue as only a prop but his mistakes and missed tackles are not acceptable.
16\. Aloiai -- have him replace ET for 20 minutes a game.
17\. Liddle
I think ideally we'd have a unit as an edge backrower but we bought McQueen. I honestly think this is an area we should target in our recruitment.
