Wests Tigers Coaches

philgood said:
Any info on who Sheens' assistants will be?
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This is the big one for me....if Sheens is at the club for 2 years excellent, but if we want to have more people sign on, they will want to know who the successor is for longer term stability.

Having a clear follow on plan and getting the right assistant/s for 2023 and beyond is crucial.
 
I remember a quote from Sheens at the end of 04 that we would have made the 8 if Benji hadn't been injured. And it made me see his tenure through the lens of a coach who knew he had a generational talent in his team, who could win just about any game from anywhere (not every game sure), and was a player that would have struck Munster-like fear into oppositions.

Did having a player like mean you could go with crazy selections cos he knew, in the back of his mind, 'Benji could always win this with some crazy play'

Does Sheens have a Benji in this team? Cos it's looking a lot like 03 (ironically almost 20 years ago), with no stars, and running near the bottom? I'm only hoping that Api and Papi are like Hodgo and Prince, and Justin M and Fonua are like Gibbs and Dene H/Liam Fulton. Where the new Benji is coming from though...
 
Tigers_Wests said:
This is the big one for me....if Sheens is at the club for 2 years excellent, but if we want to have more people sign on, they will want to know who the successor is for longer term stability.

Having a clear follow on plan and getting the right assistant/s for 2023 and beyond is crucial.
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Having succession planning happening to make full use of Sheens' knowledge is important. A radical departure from the last 3.5 years.
 
Lauren said:
My immediate thoughts went to Keep Calm and start the Delorean, from Back to the Future. Or Great Scott!!
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I’ll admit, around 2 years ago I got a bit nostalgic for Sheens. And i think I even created a thread suggesting bringing him in in a role similar to the one he came back for. But this is ridiculous.
 
finnzo said:
Surley the club takes a good look at its self after this and asks itself why don’t any notable coaches want to come here?
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Our club has never learnt from their mistakes in the past why should this be any different.It will be business as usual and smiles all around even if most of us are fuming over this fiasco
 
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Why do I have this feeling that Brett Hodgson may come back as an assistant as well.
Gee where is Fulton, Galea, Prince, Sattler? Let's have 17 assistant coaches.
 
jirskyr said:
Really, 95% of stuff-ups are Board and management decisions? Not the on-field performances and coaching strategies?

Tigers are financially in a pretty good position, so really the only thing that is failing right now is football operations, and it appears they have invested quite heavily in pathways recently, to arrest some issues with junior development.

Therefore if we park pathways to the side for a moment, the major ongoing issues are on-field performance (measured on a weekly basis) and overall recruitment ability (measured over years). But not just recruitment "decisions", I mean recruitment "ability", because many recruitment outcomes are based on the club's ability to compete in the market rather than specific poor decisions.

Honestly I fail to see how 95% of our problems/mistakes over 22 seasons are Board-related, because Tigers have significantly overturned the management and board over this period (a natural cycling of employees).

No, I think there's something baked into the Tigers DNA that prevents us from achieving sustained success, and we haven't hit upon the right combination of strategies and personnel to lift that curse for long enough to establish a foundation of success.

Personally however, I think the NRL has developed to a point where there is baked-in (unintentional) prejudice against struggling clubs. This is prejudice emerging from constant competition between clubs, not some kind of intentional bias. It's a survival-of-fittest scenario in 2022, because modern players will tend to accept lower pay for higher success, inclusive of all the other perks: (a) rep match payments, (b) personal brand and sponsorship, (c) likely existence of illegal side-payments or TPAs.

Of course a successful club is going to find it easier to get benefactors to agree to part with their cash, in the wide variety of ways that a player can be enticed, so players are consistently incentivised to play for successful teams, which tends to keep those teams successful.

It all becomes rather obvious when you look at the finals records of clubs since ~2010, where Tigers, Warriors, Dragons, Titans, Bulldogs, Knights all have approx the same level of non-success. That's 6 clubs you can usually bank on finishing Bottom 8 every year, and that "bankability" tells you that the system has become lopsided.

Again I don't believe the NRL has done this intentionally, because it is in the NRL's best interest for every club to have a successful period near the top of the game - it's the best outcome for every metric the NRL cares about (sponsorship, ticket sales, memberships, TV viewership, junior participation etc.) The reason for this is teams who often fail will never maximise their financial support potential, whereas teams who often win will experience a financial plateau as their fans get used to winning. So it's best for there to be fluctuating fortunes, to keep all fans highly engaged and hungry for a short-term return to success.
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Thoughtful insight.
 
THE_POM said:
Fair to say the "noise" coming around this is majorly from the Eels side, hence the counter article in the SMH yesterday after Riccio broke the news.
Isaiah's concerns are genuine & he has spoken to the club but he has not requested a release nor has their been any approach by his management.
The club is confident they have smoothed everything over & once the formal announcement of Sheens as coach is made it should all blow over.
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The eels are the absolute worst club in the world . They have no morals at all . There’s literally like 7 players in thier team right now who they’ve either , had them dog thier old club , break thier old club contract , get out of the new contract they’ve signed elsewhere , or backflipped during the old cooling off period .
And the NRL does nothing . It’s like 3 times a year . Even the roosters dont behave like that to that frequency .
For reference in no particular order ; Blake, Moses,Papalli, RCG,Matterson, Paulo, Mahoney. All have at some point had this club do some funky shit to have them play for the eels .
 
This is worth a read to reminisce! How Tigers went hard for Bellamy in 2002, thought we had him. Then supposedly he was put off by player discontent in Tiger ranks. Then we go for Sheens who was coming off an unsuccessful tenure at the Cowboys!

Inside story of how Wests Tigers lost supercoach Craig Bellamy

On the eve of Craig Bellamy’s 500th game, the inside story on how the Wests Tigers missed the chance to sign a super coach that would have changed the club forever can finally be revealed.

Steve Noyce was carrying a powerful secret as he sat on the Wests Tigers team bus heading south from their Brisbane CBD hotel to suburban Mount Gravatt, where his side was playing the Allan Langer-led Broncos.

Players filled the back seats while club officials hitching a ride to QEII Stadium – Brisbane’s home ground in 2002 while Lang Park was being refurbished — were up the front.

Noyce, the then Tigers CEO, was waiting for a signing confirmation that would change the face of his joint-venture club – that of rising Brisbane assistant coach Craig Bellamy.

A few weeks earlier, Noyce had quietly flown to Brisbane and met with Bellamy at a suburban cafe in the city’s western suburbs. After their clandestine meeting, the pair had spoken a further seven or eight times. Hope was quickly becoming reality.

To ensure a clean handover, Noyce had driven to Liverpool’s Woodward Park, where incumbent coach Terry Lamb was playing touch footy for some relaxation. Lamb saw Noyce and knew what was coming – he would be sacked.

The club’s board had discussed up to five replacements. Bellamy topped the list, ahead of Australian-born Ian Millward, who was enjoying considerable success coaching St Helens in England.

Noyce further completed his due diligence by contacting Brisbane coach Wayne Bennett, seeking feedback on Bellamy. Tigers board member Ben Elias also rang Bellamy three times to sound out his thoughts on a move to Sydney.

It was so close, a Brisbane media report declared: “Broncos performance director Craig Bellamy is expected to announce this weekend that he will take the head coaching position at Wests Tigers.”

Bellamy had given every indication he was ready to finally jump into the NRL coaching furnace — but there were some private, nagging doubts.

Wests had endured a difficult few seasons with poor results and multiple off-field dramas including stars Craig Field and Kevin McGuinness being handed two-year drug bans while John Hopoate was suspended for 12 matches for inserting his fingers into the backsides of three opposition players.

Noyce was selling Bellamy a pitch about the future — not the present — of a club with Balmain’s rich history along with the vast junior development pathways available in Campbelltown, the joint venture’s second geographical home.

And reports had emerged that senior players were backing Paul Langmack to succeed Lamb, directly opposing the board’s choice of Bellamy. His perceived lack of support from players had irritated Bellamy.

“He was the best candidate for the job at the time and history now shows he has become one of the best coaches in the NRL. We had a number of chats and we had to be honest. We hadn’t set the world on fire in our first three years as a joint venture.”

But as the team bus pushed down the M1 on July 20 toward QEII Stadium – known then as ANZ Stadium and now as the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre — Noyce’s phone rang. The conversation was respectful, yet only lasted 20 seconds.

“I’ve decided to say no, mate, I won’t take up the offer,” Bellamy told a stunned Noyce.

“At that stage I was excited that we might have been in a position to bring in someone with such background, energy, focus and dynamics. It would have been a pretty big coup for Wests Tigers at the time.”

Bellamy has never given his reasons to Noyce, even though the pair often catch up for a beer at Coolangatta on end-of-year holidays. Board member David Trodden always believed Bellamy wanted to protect his family from the hustle of Sydney.

At the time Bellamy indicated family concerns were the main reason for his decision, but admitted comments from players, led by Terry Hill, for Langmack to get the job were an issue.

“The last thing the Wests Tigers and the new coach at the Wests Tigers needs is a player-coach feud,’’ Bellamy told 2GB.

Reeling that day from the knock-back, Noyce then had to watch Brisbane wallop his side 46-14, with Bellamy helping call the shots as the assistant coach.

Later that year, Bellamy signed with Melbourne. And he’s still there, having become one of the greatest coaches in rugby league’s 114-year history.

Remarkably, Bellamy will coach his 500th NRL game against South Sydney on Thursday night at AAMI Park.

Only three other coaches – Wayne Bennett (890), Tim Sheens (669) and Brian Smith (601) — have more games to their name.

Even though Bellamy relocated to another major city, Trodden’s theory may be correct, the coach preferring to leave his family behind in Queensland. His two kids – Aaron and Rachel — were also entering senior high school at the time.

“The reality was if Craig wanted the job then job then it was his,” Trodden said.

Trodden recalls Wests playing a match at Campbelltown in 2002 against a Brisbane side decimated by State of Origin representation. Even head coach Bennett, in charge of Queensland, was missing.

Somehow assistant coach Bellamy stepped forward to conjure up an epic 28-14 win with a bunch of unknown kids.

“They had virtually their whole team out. They had no chance because they had a team of nobodies,” Trodden said. “‘Bellyache’ came down and coached what was virtually a reserve-grade side and they beat us. That piqued everyone’s interest in Craig.

“I think there might have been some reluctance on the part of his family to move from Brisbane. Even when he went to Melbourne, for those first couple of years his family remained in Brisbane. Looking back, I don’t think he’s had a career with too many regrets.”

Elias wanted Bellamy, saying: “We discussed four of five coaches at board level but Craig was number one. He was our priority, no two-ways about it. ‘Noycey’ had instructions to go and get him.

“What he could have done for us, God only knows. We thought we had him – he said all the right things.”

After missing Bellamy, Elias attended the club’s next board meeting with a plan. He rose to his feet and asked who fellow directors to nominate the best coach in the NRL. He was told it was Bennett.

“Let’s chase him,” Elias said.

Reminded Bennett was under a watertight contract at Brisbane, Elias then said: “Well, who’s the best coach out there that’s not under contract?”

The answer was Tim Sheens, who had split the previous year with North Queensland.

Sheens had actually started private talks with then All Blacks assistant coach Robbie Deans about a possible coaching role within the New Zealand Rugby Union.

“Sheens won’t come here,” a director told Elias.

“Well, has anyone asked him? No? Well I will,” Elias replied.

The next day, Elias got Sheens’ phone number from Laurie Daley. The first call between Elias and Sheens was inhospitable, the pair had fallen out in 1991 when captain and coach of the NSW State of Origin side over an issue around Queensland hooker Steve Walters. Elias said his relationship with Sheens became “hostile and intense”.

Not expecting a call from Elias, Sheens thought it was a prank call from Daley. Sheens took Elias’ number and rang him back to ensure it wasn’t a gee-up.

Elias completed his background check on Sheens by seeking advice from Canberra legends Daley, Stuart and Bradley Clyde. Elias and Daley at the time shared the same gym at St Leonards. Noyce checked on Sheens’ availability by ringing veteran Sydney journalist Tony Adams, a known confidant to the coach.

Sheens boarded a flight from Townsville to Sydney the very next day, and a deal was struck within days.

Within three years Sheens had pulled off one of all-time great coaching feats by guiding Wests to an unlikely 2005 grand final triumph. At the time of his signing, Sheens had no idea the club had initially approached Bellamy.

“I didn’t know Craig had been interviewed, to be quite honest. It was something I found out about later on,” said Sheens, who attended a celebration dinner with Bellamy in Melbourne on Monday night.

“Benny Elias rang me and apparently Laurie gave me a rap. I owe Laurie one. It was a sliding doors moment.”

Asked whether he felt awkward knowing he was third or even fourth choice at Wests Tigers choice, Sheens said: “There are limited NRL jobs, mate. You don’t always have a choice. That is why most coaches take the job when there’s one on offer.

“I didn’t volunteer for it and I didn’t apply for it. I was asked to do it so I don’t see that as an issue.”

Noyce added: “The picture we painted to Craig in 2002 actually delivered us success in 2005. The dice rolled a different way but we got that premiership.”

Reminded Bellamy’s rejection gave him another coaching title, Sheens said: “I owe Craig for that.”
 
swag_tiger said:
If it's to bring in Benji in 2-3 years then I have no problem with it.
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They’ve picked Benji as the heir apparent . It’s a pretty inspired choice really . He’s a superstar name , has an ego the size of Everest , so telling people they played like garbage would be no problem , and that’s important , and most importantly he has a media presence and can spend the next 2 years shifting the narrative of particulate fox , much in the same way buzz always Teflon’s away the sharks horrendous activities .
Can he coach though ? Who knows ..
 
Earl said:
They need a succession plan with a couple of options. We have Cayless, Benji, Robbie, Lambkin and probably more waiting in the wings. It shouldn't be that hard to not have to recruit a coach into the role after Sheens goes assuming he gets the job.

I still think the coach is not that important assuming we also have a recruitment and retention team/committee and a good system of bringing junior players into the top grade.
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And at this stage Sheens is a much better recruiter than Cayless, Benji, Robbie, Lambkin
 
loklok said:
Did someone say earlier Payten only has 2 yrs left at cows
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Think he's contracted to end of 2023. Payten to come in 2024 or bring in Morris as an assistant under Sheens to be groomed for 2024 or 2025 would be amazing but unlikely.

Instead we're getting the old boys club back. Wonder if Heighno is up for organising a few lunches...
 
For what its worth; I think Sheens, if he is legitimately looking to stabilise and mentor a new coach is by far a better option than going with a new younger coach with no or limited first grade NRL experience. I think in the short term his presence, knowledge and standing will stabilise the joint, hopefully settle down players like Pap and lead to other players that have been mooted on here as "watching" until a coach is announced signing. IDK but I think players would rather Sheens than Morris, or Walkers or Woolfe???

I still think it was either incredibly stupid or incredible bad luck (like CC re-nigging on a verbal) that we sacked Maguire without a signed backup....but I can get behind a Sheens mentoring coach role.... not that we have much choice it would seem *shrug*
 
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