Why is the tigers defence so bad?

[goldcoast_tiger]

I think cochise summed it up pretty well. The other thing I would add to this is that we never show the same sort of energy or urgency in defence as we do in attack. The team always looks keen to attack and throw the ball around, but apart from the rare game (Cows at Leichhardt, Broncos in Brisbane come to mind) we just don't have the same energy in defence, and that's where we get put on the backfoot. I think if we had a few players who don't mind bashing other blokes, this could quite easily turn around as others would feed off it IMO.

Exactly what happened when Taupau and Gavet used to come on at the 20 minute mark. Everyone lifted when they sat the opposition on their butts.
Dwyer had the same effect

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

well I think I have read it all, defence comes on to what u practice and how u want to defend, it is clear JT and his useless defensive coaches don't put much into this area. we have no mongrel in the pack and the backs defend like they have never met each other before, and that's why we suck in defence.

It's you, not u. Don't be lazy.
I really try to find points that I agree with in all your posts and its impossible.
We have two small halves that were (still possibly are) bad at tackling. Brooks is the worst offender.
That's up to them to work with the defensive coaches to fix. We can't keep putting players next to them for protection. They gotta stand up and defend properly.
Players need to take some responsibility for their game. Coach can only do so much. Some players are just scared to tackle.

Brooks is not that small.
What I can't understand is how two players can play together for so long and no one has done anything about their crap defence.
Thank heavens that the tryfest and tackle free rubbish that was NYC is going ( or has already gone)
Our below standard defence isn't all the halves fault, , but when you have two Targets who have woeful defence, and others who shoot up individually, and look like hey have no idea of what to do or when to do it, it's easy to see why teams love to get near our line. Its why we are regarded as Soft.
Occasionally we can put in an effort for one or two games. But it never lasts
I know all the constraints of the cap etc. but when players know that they'll never be accountable for the blatant lack of determination or skill , how does anyone expect them to improve.

There were times last season where players should have been hooked immediately as some of the defence was pathetic.

Someone else here a while back, mentioned Rapana jogging around a group of two or three defenders, who were just standing there looking at each other.
It must have been the easiest try of the year. Rapana looked like he was amazed that no one Made even a token effort to stop him.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

well I think I have read it all, defence comes on to what u practice and how u want to defend, it is clear JT and his useless defensive coaches don't put much into this area. we have no mongrel in the pack and the backs defend like they have never met each other before, and that's why we suck in defence.

It's you, not u. Don't be lazy.
I really try to find points that I agree with in all your posts and its impossible.
We have two small halves that were (still possibly are) bad at tackling. Brooks is the worst offender.
That's up to them to work with the defensive coaches to fix. We can't keep putting players next to them for protection. They gotta stand up and defend properly.
Players need to take some responsibility for their game. Coach can only do so much. Some players are just scared to tackle.

Brooks is not that small.
What I can't understand ,is how two players like them, can play together for so long, and no one has done anything about their crap defence.
Thank heavens that the tryfest and tackle free rubbish that was NYC is going ( or has already gone)
Our below standard defence isn't all the halves fault though, but when you have two Targets who have woeful defence, and others who shoot up individually, and look like hey have no idea of what to do or when to do it, it's easy to see why teams love to get near our line. Its why we are regarded as Soft.
Occasionally we can put in an effort for one or two games, and everyone's hopes rise . But it never lasts
I know all the constraints of the cap etc. but when players know that they'll never be accountable for the blatant lack of determination or skill , how does anyone expect them to improve.
There were times last season where players should have been hooked immediately as some of the defence was pathetic.

Someone else here a while back, mentioned Rapana jogging around a group of two or three defenders, who were just standing there looking at each other.
It must have been the easiest try of the year.rapana looked like he was amazed that no one
Made even a token effort to stop him.

 

[matchball]

well I think I have read it all, defence comes on to what u practice and how u want to defend, it is clear JT and his useless defensive coaches don't put much into this area. we have no mongrel in the pack and the backs defend like they have never met each other before, and that's why we suck in defence.

It's you, not u. Don't be lazy.
I really try to find points that I agree with in all your posts and its impossible.
We have two small halves that were (still possibly are) bad at tackling. Brooks is the worst offender.
That's up to them to work with the defensive coaches to fix. We can't keep putting players next to them for protection. They gotta stand up and defend properly.
Players need to take some responsibility for their game. Coach can only do so much. Some players are just scared to tackle.

Brooks is not that small.
What I can't understand is how two players can play together for so long and no one has done anything about their crap defence.
Thank heavens that the tryfest and tackle free rubbish that was NYC is going ( or has already gone)
Our below standard defence isn't all the halves fault, , but when you have two Targets who have woeful defence, and others who shoot up individually, and look like hey have no idea of what to do or when to do it, it's easy to see why teams love to get near our line. Its why we are regarded as Soft.
Occasionally we can put in an effort for one or two games. But it never lasts
I know all the constraints of the cap etc. but when players know that they'll never be accountable for the blatant lack of determination or skill , how does anyone expect them to improve.

There were times last season where players should have been hooked immediately as some of the defence was pathetic.

Someone else here a while back, mentioned Rapana jogging around a group of two or three defenders, who were just standing there looking at each other.
It must have been the easiest try of the year. Rapana looked like he was amazed that no one Made even a token effort to stop him.

Brooks is scared to tackle. It's plain to see.
If he does tackle its just Jersey/arm grabs. I've yet to see him go low and make a tackle around the waist/legs.

You can't teach people not to be scared. It's on Brooks to wake up and get over his tackling fears.
It's no coincidence that every teams forwards just aim at him and he gets the most missed tackles in the game.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

bahaha 'Brooks is scared'… What a load of rubbish.

Luke has a very good tackling technic, he just struggles reading the defensive part of the game and is left isolated far too often.

Defence isnt about individuals, its about the whole unit/structure!

 

[innsaneink]

Yep…. Individuals don't even get to development squad rep teams let alone NRL if they cannot tackle... That said, your always behind the 8 ball if size isn't on your side... Even Lincoln Withers missed the odd one on one

 

[Geo]

bahaha 'Brooks is scared'… What a load of rubbish.

Luke has a very good tackling technic, he just struggles reading the defensive part of the game and is left isolated far too often.

Defence isnt about individuals, its about the whole unit/structure!

Well said…Luke has issues that the majority of halves have scared is not one of them..getting isolsted is...I guess Maloney must be the biggest chicken in the Comp missing the most tackles in 2016..went un noticed as his team had structures and minimal changes in teams sheets and won a Comp...

 

[matchball]

bahaha 'Brooks is scared'… What a load of rubbish.

Luke has a very good tackling technic, he just struggles reading the defensive part of the game and is left isolated far too often.

Defence isnt about individuals, its about the whole unit/structure!

Are you serious?
If he isn't scared, why doesn't he try to make an effective tackle when isolated? He shits himself and starts tugging at arms and shirts.
At least go for the legs, if you don't stop the runner at least you slowed them down.

I don't believe he is a bad defender, he is just scared.

 

[supercoach]

Cochise has covered it pretty well

Our kicking game doesn't help either , neither does our kick / chase

We are back foot from the get go

Must admit the "complicated defensive set up " scares me that Ballin spoke about , you make it too complicated and when you are under pressure more often than not it will fall apart

Thinking the same thing Happy, keep it simple. When you complicate things you are relying on a lot of people to remember their role and of course it makes it very hard when you introduce new players to the team. Anyway time will tell and they had to try something because the D was very hot and cold last year

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Does anyone know if we have a first grade standard goal kickers in the club for this year.
Having a reasonable amount of two pointers per game , might make up for a few of our missed tackles.

 

[PD77]

Does anyone know if we have a first grade standard goal kickers in the club for this year.
Having a reasonable amount of two pointers per game , might make up for a few of our missed tackles.

Not that I have seen. Moses kicked at 62% last year and Rankin at 70%. We have lacked someone who can kick at 80% plus for a loooooong time!

 

[supercoach]

bahaha 'Brooks is scared'… What a load of rubbish.

Luke has a very good tackling technic, he just struggles reading the defensive part of the game and is left isolated far too often.

Defence isnt about individuals, its about the whole unit/structure!

So true, he can tackle but he probably spent his whole junior career defending in the middle section of the field, but at NRL level he has had to defend a lot of the time one and two in and that is a different ball game to defending in the middle. Okay he made a few bad reads, but he can tackle and he is not scared. I get a bit hot under the collar when people start questioning players ticker or lack of ticker

 

[jirskyr]

Who cares if Brooks is afraid to tackle or not, we can't really get inside his head. Issue is he misses too many tackles for a reasonably big and fast halfback.

For me he is one of those kids who struggles when given time to think and try and read the play. When he plays tighter and they run forwards right at him in a straight line, he often sets himself and has a fair dig, that is why he makes the odd strong hit.

But when they run patterns at him, he's all at sea. He'll regularly go in on the dummy runner, why I think Moses usually gets more missed tackles each season because Brooks doesn't attempt as many tackles.

Once they are moving laterally he is all arm grabs. So Brooks needs to learn to use his shoulder more on lateral tackles, so he's going in hard with his torso and not just his arms. He's not got long arms, the big backrowers and centres are just going to swat him away.

 

[matchball]

Who cares if Brooks is afraid to tackle or not, we can't really get inside his head. Issue is he misses too many tackles for a reasonably big and fast halfback.

For me he is one of those kids who struggles when given time to think and try and read the play. When he plays tighter and they run forwards right at him in a straight line, he often sets himself and has a fair dig, that is why he makes the odd strong hit.

But when they run patterns at him, he's all at sea. He'll regularly go in on the dummy runner, why I think Moses usually gets more missed tackles each season because Brooks doesn't attempt as many tackles.

Once they are moving laterally he is all arm grabs. So Brooks needs to learn to use his shoulder more on lateral tackles, so he's going in hard with his torso and not just his arms. He's not got long arms, the big backrowers and centres are just going to swat him away.

Only reason I said he is afraid to tackle is because of his technique. He never get his head down and I put that down to fear.
Look at all the good tacklers. Liam Fulton got head knocked into retirement. E.T copped a big concussion last year getting down to the waist and legs in the tackle.

Some blokes haven't got the heart to tackle low. James Maloney is another one just not as bad.
Reynolds of the bulldogs has to trip people to compensate for his fear of tackling around the legs.

 

[Tim Sheens]

well I think I have read it all, defence comes on to what u practice and how u want to defend, it is clear JT and his useless defensive coaches don't put much into this area. we have no mongrel in the pack and the backs defend like they have never met each other before, and that's why we suck in defence.

It's you, not u. Don't be lazy.
I really try to find points that I agree with in all your posts and its impossible.
We have two small halves that were (still possibly are) bad at tackling. Brooks is the worst offender.
That's up to them to work with the defensive coaches to fix. We can't keep putting players next to them for protection. They gotta stand up and defend properly.
Players need to take some responsibility for their game. Coach can only do so much. Some players are just scared to tackle.

Brooks is not that small.
What I can't understand is how two players can play together for so long and no one has done anything about their crap defence.
Thank heavens that the tryfest and tackle free rubbish that was NYC is going ( or has already gone)
Our below standard defence isn't all the halves fault, , but when you have two Targets who have woeful defence, and others who shoot up individually, and look like hey have no idea of what to do or when to do it, it's easy to see why teams love to get near our line. Its why we are regarded as Soft.
Occasionally we can put in an effort for one or two games. But it never lasts
I know all the constraints of the cap etc. but when players know that they'll never be accountable for the blatant lack of determination or skill , how does anyone expect them to improve.

There were times last season where players should have been hooked immediately as some of the defence was pathetic.

Someone else here a while back, mentioned Rapana jogging around a group of two or three defenders, who were just standing there looking at each other.
It must have been the easiest try of the year. Rapana looked like he was amazed that no one Made even a token effort to stop him.

Brooks is scared to tackle. It's plain to see.
If he does tackle its just Jersey/arm grabs. I've yet to see him go low and make a tackle around the waist/legs.

You can't teach people not to be scared. It's on Brooks to wake up and get over his tackling fears.
It's no coincidence that every teams forwards just aim at him and he gets the most missed tackles in the game.

Can't agree with the scared bit and not only tackling, as any kicker in the modern game is really brave, with a giant just about guaranteed to be bearing down on him each and every time. That said, his tackle selection is poor at times and he could go a lot better by felling them around the legs as you have suggested, particularly when he has slightly misread a play.

Of course a good part of it may just be that they are taught and told to go high and wrap up the ball.

 

[matchball]

It's you, not u. Don't be lazy.
I really try to find points that I agree with in all your posts and its impossible.
We have two small halves that were (still possibly are) bad at tackling. Brooks is the worst offender.
That's up to them to work with the defensive coaches to fix. We can't keep putting players next to them for protection. They gotta stand up and defend properly.
Players need to take some responsibility for their game. Coach can only do so much. Some players are just scared to tackle.

Brooks is not that small.
What I can't understand is how two players can play together for so long and no one has done anything about their crap defence.
Thank heavens that the tryfest and tackle free rubbish that was NYC is going ( or has already gone)
Our below standard defence isn't all the halves fault, , but when you have two Targets who have woeful defence, and others who shoot up individually, and look like hey have no idea of what to do or when to do it, it's easy to see why teams love to get near our line. Its why we are regarded as Soft.
Occasionally we can put in an effort for one or two games. But it never lasts
I know all the constraints of the cap etc. but when players know that they'll never be accountable for the blatant lack of determination or skill , how does anyone expect them to improve.

There were times last season where players should have been hooked immediately as some of the defence was pathetic.

Someone else here a while back, mentioned Rapana jogging around a group of two or three defenders, who were just standing there looking at each other.
It must have been the easiest try of the year. Rapana looked like he was amazed that no one Made even a token effort to stop him.

Brooks is scared to tackle. It's plain to see.
If he does tackle its just Jersey/arm grabs. I've yet to see him go low and make a tackle around the waist/legs.

You can't teach people not to be scared. It's on Brooks to wake up and get over his tackling fears.
It's no coincidence that every teams forwards just aim at him and he gets the most missed tackles in the game.

Can't agree with the scared bit and not only tackling, as any kicker in the modern game is really brave, with a giant just about guaranteed to be bearing down on him each and every time. That said, his tackle selection is poor at times and he could go a lot better by felling them around the legs as you have suggested, particularly when he has slightly misread a play.

Of course a good part of it may just be that they are taught and told to go high and wrap up the ball.

I don't understand this "tackle selection".
When I played Rugby League as a lad I was taught by all coaches just one selection. Tackle around the legs.
The first man in should be doing this.
Brooks must know he can't stop a man one v one larger than himself by grabbing an arm or shirt.
It's the basics of league tackling.

 

[innsaneink]

I think you might be onto something with your last par, former.
If youre scared to tackle you give the game away at 12 or 13…you don't go on to play NRL

 

[happy_tiger]

Brooks is not that small.
What I can't understand is how two players can play together for so long and no one has done anything about their crap defence.
Thank heavens that the tryfest and tackle free rubbish that was NYC is going ( or has already gone)
Our below standard defence isn't all the halves fault, , but when you have two Targets who have woeful defence, and others who shoot up individually, and look like hey have no idea of what to do or when to do it, it's easy to see why teams love to get near our line. Its why we are regarded as Soft.
Occasionally we can put in an effort for one or two games. But it never lasts
I know all the constraints of the cap etc. but when players know that they'll never be accountable for the blatant lack of determination or skill , how does anyone expect them to improve.

There were times last season where players should have been hooked immediately as some of the defence was pathetic.

Someone else here a while back, mentioned Rapana jogging around a group of two or three defenders, who were just standing there looking at each other.
It must have been the easiest try of the year. Rapana looked like he was amazed that no one Made even a token effort to stop him.

Brooks is scared to tackle. It's plain to see.
If he does tackle its just Jersey/arm grabs. I've yet to see him go low and make a tackle around the waist/legs.

You can't teach people not to be scared. It's on Brooks to wake up and get over his tackling fears.
It's no coincidence that every teams forwards just aim at him and he gets the most missed tackles in the game.

Can't agree with the scared bit and not only tackling, as any kicker in the modern game is really brave, with a giant just about guaranteed to be bearing down on him each and every time. That said, his tackle selection is poor at times and he could go a lot better by felling them around the legs as you have suggested, particularly when he has slightly misread a play.

Of course a good part of it may just be that they are taught and told to go high and wrap up the ball.

I don't understand this "tackle selection".
When I played Rugby League as a lad I was taught by all coaches just one selection. Tackle around the legs.
The first man in should be doing this.
Brooks must know he can't stop a man one v one larger than himself by grabbing an arm or shirt.
It's the basics of league tackling.

Problem is when he gets isolated , tackling around the legs when you are 1 on 1 with a bigger player just means he offloads so is basically just as bad as a missed tackle

Brooks needs to keep his feet in defence much like Moses does now , hits the attacker , slows the momentum and then stays on his feet to help another defender take the player down

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Part of the blame has to go to our recruiting department.
They have always scouted talent with the ball over old school hardheads who like to make their presence felt in defence.
Wests Tigers has always been an entertainers club. I love that as most of you do but they have to get the balance right and sadly they never do.

The sort of player that we should have been looking at is some one like Beau Scott.
Not only is he a good defender and a hard hitter, but has an attitude that rubs off on others.
He was a big contributor for the big effort from the Parra Forwards last year
He was worth every shonky dollar that they paid him.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

I believe many of our players do not have confidence in their team mates' ability to defend one on one. Although Brooks can misread in defence, to suggest he is scared is incorrect. I'd say Brooks' cause in not helped by the fact the forward who is supposedly looking out for him has the propensity to consistently miss one on one tackles close to the line which lead directly to tries. I'd be interested to learn how young Bayley Sironen would defend on the left with Brooks. I did see him stop Fisher Harris one on one at full pace a few yards out from the try line at Leichhardt in a heavy tackle in the Under 20s.